MFA/BA in Voice, Conservatory or University, Need Advice!

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>Hey,</p>

<p>I recently graduated with a bachelor's degree from USC Film School and was thinking of going to music school for a vocal major.</p>

<p>I took some voice classes in school, but not enough for a minor. Should I apply for another undergrad degree or a master's? If I were to apply for an undergrad degree, how long would I have to be in school? I have already done GE and probably have fulfilled some music requirements too.</p>

<p>I'm still trying to make a decision, so I'm planning on applying for a vocal major at the local community college. If I were to get an associate's degree there, would I be qualified for a master's degree in music?</p>

<p>What are good schools for voice (consevatories and/or four-year colleges)? I'm from Southern California, by the way, so local is good, but I'm willing to look outside of the state too.</p>

<p>Also, would my undergrad degree have any weight at all in the admissions process since it's non-music related?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>Graduate programs, particularly at the better-known music schools and conservatories, are quite competitive. Not all of their applicants are undergrad voice majors and, in fact, many people believe that it is not a very good idea for a young singer to go the undergrad voice major route. Still, those who apply to the grad schools with a BA in some other field would normally have been taking private lessons all through college with an excellent private voice teacher. Without that kind of preparation, it would take an enormous natural talent to turn in the kind of audition that will be expected. It will be the audition, not your undergraduate academic credentials that determine whether you are accepted.</p>

<p>Can you deliver songs in several languages (at least English, Italian, French and German) from a variety of composers, in different styles at a high artistic level with near flawless intonation, excellent diction and a reasonably wide dynamic range? Your competition for places in the grad schools will be able to do all of that.</p>

<p>Undergrad voice schools are notorious for not accepting much in the way of transfer credit for music courses taken at other schools, much less courses that have already been applied toward a bachelor's degree. They usually require eight semesters of private voice lessons, four or so semesters of music theory and ear training, a year each in two or three modern languages. If you go the BA route, there will also be the normal core requirements. If you go the BM route you will have additional music history courses, some ensemble requirements, juries after at least the first two years, keyboard classes, recitals to attend and perform and on and on. It is not generally something that can be done in compressed fashion after getting another degree. There are just too many things that are particular to a voice major that you need to learn. It takes a fair amount of time and practice and I doubt that you will be able to cut it much shorter than the traditional four years.</p>

<p>Probably the best thing you could do would be to take some private lessons from the best voice teacher you can find and ask for their honest opinion as to whether you have the potential to do what you want. I am sure that USC must have some very good ones, but I cannot say the same for most community colleges. There must also be some very good private teachers who operate out of their own studios in the Los Angeles area. I am not familiar with west coast teachers, so perhaps someone else can fill you in. Expect to pay for a top private teacher. $100 to $150 per lesson is not at all unusual and some charge more than that.</p>

3

<p>Chapman University in Orange, CA, might be near you, and has a good voice program. I suggest going to talk with them. Chapman</a> University - Site Home</p>

<p>My son is going into undergrad, but we have been picking schools with an eye towards graduate school. In the end, the #1 thing to get into graduate school for voice is ... [drum roll please] .... your voice. Male voices continue to mature into the 30's, so undergrad is just a time to keep training them, but not push them. Women's voices mature a few years earlier, but still the same idea.</p>

<p>No reason to go back to earn a bachelors in voice just to get into grad school. Take voice lessons with a professor instead to give you the basic training you will need.</p>

<p>In addition to the lessons, the academic education you will eventually need is all the music theory, aural, and other such basic stuff all musicians need. Also, you should expect to have a basic keyboard requirement. Also, Diction and language for Italian, German, and French.</p>

<p>If you really want to go to graduate school for voice, I would not recommend the community college route, unless ... the teacher is excellent. Much of picking the right undergrad school is picking the right teacher. Wherever you go, make sure you get a good teacher. The community college might be a good place to get the classes I mentioned. However, it seems like the better schools have more rigorous classes. I would expect Chapman University to have good classes. If all you need to do is take a few classes, rather than earn a degree, the cost might be manageable.</p>

<p>I hope this helps.</p>

4

<p>Thank you both for your responses.</p>

<p>I was taking private lessons with a speech-level-singing (SLS) coach until recently. At $70/half-hour and with no major breakthroughs, I decided to look elsewhere.</p>

<p>OperaDad, yes Chapman is in my county. Is Chapman's program really good or is USC Thornton better? Someone recommended a teacher to me from Chapman, so I'm looking into private lessons with her.</p>

<p>About finding private teachers, how do you know what makes a good teacher? Should I be looking for academic credentials or something? There seems to be a lot of 'teachers' listed on the internet.</p>

<p>What kind of careers do most graduates of music school end up doing? I'm more interested in a recording career (in classical music) rather than full-fledged opera.</p>

5

<p>We went to the Classical Singer convention (Classical</a> Singer Community), and Chapman was one of the schools at the College Expo. The representatives were very nice, knowledgeable, and one was a judge for one of my son's performances. Other than that, I don't know much about them. Given that, I would presume that they would have a reputable voice department. Otherwise, why go through all the expense/hassle of recruiting at a Classical Voice convention. If they were not so far away, he would have considered applying. I know nothing about USC.</p>

<p>Finding a voice teacher. In many respects, that is more important than finding a college. Better to be at a good college with a great teacher than a great college with a not so good teacher. That said, the better colleges will have the better teachers. That is not to say that some teachers at good colleges may not be "past their prime".</p>

<p>Research recommendations for teachers, and then have a lesson with some of your top pics. You will get an idea if you like working with the teacher. Ask the teacher how they might help you develop your voice. After you ask that question enough times, you will get an idea if the teacher knows anything, and if you are comfortable with the direction.</p>

<p>At the undergrad level, I am more concerned about having a teacher that helps my son develop the proper mechanics of singing. His voice is still developing, and it would hurt him to try to sing a lead in a real opera. Even a song that pushes him too much could be bad for his long-term development.</p>

<p>My son started voice lessons with a Soprano from the local opera company. She then recommended a professor from a nearby college that has an undergrad and graduate voice program. The teaching difference was like night and day. During his college search, he has had numerous 1 hour voice lessons at many of the different colleges. While you can get a sense of personality in 1 hour, it is hard to get a sense of what it would be like to work with the professor for the next 4 years.</p>

<p>Should you look for academic credentials? I would look at who/where they teach, rather than where they studied. Having someone who sung at the Met is good if you eventually want to sing at the Met, and the teacher can help you with contacts. However, some of the best opera singers are lousy teachers, and a lot of not as good singers are great at teaching kids how to sing.</p>

<p>My son originally thought having a male teacher would be better. He has learned that having a female teacher would be ok. With a male teacher, he has to fight the natural tendency to sing like his teacher. Mimicking vs developing his own natural style. Not a fatal issue, but just an interesting observation. When he initially competed at Classical Singer, his teacher was the Soprano. Some profs at the convention said he needed to be with a male teacher. He is not so sure about that advice now. Especially since a lot of female profs at the college level teach male singers.</p>

6

<p>OperaDad has handled most of your questions about teachers. Concerning your questions about careers, let me first suggest you read the thread at
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Next, you should realize that the voice departments in music schools and conservatories are mostly teaching operatic singing, possibly because that is where the few available full-time jobs are for singers. It is hard to carve out a recording career if you are not a well established performer in some genre, be it opera, early music, or something else. If you do not want to specialize in opera, you need to pick your school and your teacher with even more care.</p>

<p>Record labels have not had a very good decade or two and have cut back on the number of classical releases because they are mostly not a great return on their investment. These days they do not have a lot of money for the A&R department to go out and find new talent. If you cannot bring them an established fan base to whom they can sell, or if you are not clearly a rising star, they are mostly not interested. The good news is that they no longer control the distribution of music they way they used to. You can now very easily make your own recordings and start selling them through any number of Internet outlets. The drawback is that there are thousands of others doing the same thing and you need to find some way to stand out from the crowd if you want to sell to more than your immediate friends and relations. The people who know how to do that are more likely to be out doing it than inhabiting chat rooms like this one.</p>

<p>Sorry to be so bleak, but every year thousands of new graduates attempt to earn a living as professional musicians and only a handful make it happen, particularly in the field of classical voice. The supply so far exceeds the demand that there are almost no jobs that pay a living wage. Of those few that are available, most of them either involve opera companies or teaching jobs.</p>

7

<p>Hey Dude---Usc Thornton is highly regarded and very competitive. And as a UCLA grad it gives me a special thrill to recommend that program as well :) You can also find good teachers at Cal State Northridge, Cal State Long Beach, and Cal State Fullerton. You might want to post specific questions on these teachers on NFCS.NET</p>

8

<p>OperaDad and musicamusica, thanks a lot for that link to NFCS. I've read through that Classical Singer Community board before, but didn't know about NFCS.</p>

<p>OperaDad, thanks for the feedback. Yes, I've also heard that it is better to start training more in your 20's when the voice is a little more mature.</p>

<p>I understand the rationale behind the male teacher. In my personal experience, I've found that the male vocal coaches I've worked with were better able teach and relate to me than some of the female coaches, but they both worked.</p>

<p>BassDad, thanks for your insight. Are you referring to purely classical releases or are you also including the crossover genre?</p>

<p>musicamusica, wow a UCLA grad is recommending USC to a USC grad, how ironic haha. I know that Thornton claims to be the #1 non-conservatory music school in the nation, but I haven't seen any rankings list. I've heard some conflicting remarks about studying in universities and conservatories. Some say that the best teachers are those who have private studios and are not teachers at a university. Who knows really...</p>

<p>My voice teacher from USC is in my area. I think I'm going to give him a call.</p>

9

<p>Purely classical releases by the major labels are in decline. Classical music is expensive to produce and the market for them is shrinking. Labels are less and less willing to take a chance on something that may not sell. The result is fewer releases, an emphasis on finding ways to cut costs, and producing recordings that are either warhorses performed by lesser-known (read less expensive) orchestras or big name artists doing crossover material that may sell beyond the classical music audience. I do not know whether the crossover recordings are increasing in terms of number of releases, but they certainly are increasing in terms of percentage of total releases.</p>

<p>Non-operatic classical vocal music recordings are few and far between. I cannot recall any from the likes of Universal, Sony or Telarc recently. Warner Classics has been releasing some Bach cantatas and oratorios, but non-operatic vocal music still represents perhaps 5% of their classical output. Harmonia Mundi seems to be an exception, but much of what they do is fairly specialized early music or modern composers and most of their artists are European. </p>

<p>There are very few people making more than a pittance from non-operatic classical vocal music recordings. Some of the very few that come to mind are members of established performing groups like Chanticleer and Western Wind, both of which have taken over distribution of their own recordings.</p>

<p>The point I am trying to make is that there are thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of highly talented singers out there who would like to make a living by singing non-operatic classical music. Perhaps a few dozen have been able to do so. Before going back to school with this goal in mind, you should know that the odds are not with you on this one.</p>

10

<p>And Dude---if your tired of writing those looking at those BIG tuition bills at SC,
you could also try to sneak on to UCLA's campus and check out voice teacher Michael Dean.</p>