<p>I am trying to decide on Michigan vs. Dartmouth. Michigan hasn't offerred very enticing scholarships, so it may actually may be significantly less expensive ($6-10k/yr) to go to Dartmouth based on financial aid formulas. I have essentially a 4.0 GPA in HS and a 35 on the ACT, so I've been disappointed with the Michigan scholarship offer. I have friends going to Michigan (I live in-state), so I'm more comfortable with going there, I want to go there, and it's only 2 hrs. from home. I've also applied to Harvard, Princeton, and Yale, but will not find out my acceptance status until April. I can have a free ride at ASU Barrett, but the prospect is disappointing. Is Dartmouth a significantly better school than Michigan? Is it worth $8-10k more to go to MI? What if I get accepted into HYP? Perhaps strange questions, but feeling confused.</p>
<p>Wait wait, so it will cost you less to go to Dartmouth than MI and you are asking where you want to go?</p>
<p>Unless you cannot stand Dartmouth for some reason, choose the cheaper and better choice.</p>
<p>Also, you shouldn't worry right now, wait for other college admissions.</p>
<p>^ Agreed...wait until you have all acceptances and financial aid offers laid out. The choice will become clearer.</p>
<p>Right now, if you're leaning towards majoring in engineering or hard sciences, I'd choose UMich over Dartmouth.</p>
<p>I'm truly undecided, but I'm very interested in chemistry and physics. I also may be interested in economics or law. I want to explore different areas in my first year at a great school.</p>
<p>^ If really undecided, I'd choose Dartmouth. As a smaller school, it allows more flexibility - especially when exploring majors.</p>
<p>Congrats on your acceptances!</p>
<p>I am not so sure flexibility is required for the OP UCB. All the majors he has described are in the college of LSA. Switching majors within the same college at Michigan is pretty easy. </p>
<p>Bluemaster, academically, the two schools are amazing. Both universities have excellent departments accross the academic spectrum and excellent placement into top graduate schools and companies. Given your obviousl academic prowess, you should do well at both universities, and students who do well at both of those schools will be able to open any door they wish to enter. </p>
<p>Instead of worrying about academics (where you can't lose either way), focus on fit.</p>
<p>Ann Arbor is a much larger city than Hanover, and much more centrally located. Also, the Michigan campus is much livelier than the Dartmouth campus. There is much more to do at Ann Arbor/Michigan than at Hanover/Dartmouth. If you love the outdoors and prefer a small community, Dartmouth is the way to go. If you prefer a larger town with more variety, I'd go with Michigan. Dartmouth will definitely be more personalized and close knit. However, if you are close to your family, Michigan would be far more convenient. Either way, you are going to make great and lasting friendships, regardless of which college you attend.</p>
<p>As for the cost, I would contact the Michigan financial aid office and tell them that Dartmouth would cost you less than Michigan. You can be sure they will rethink your scholarship...and fast!</p>
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I can have a free ride at ASU Barrett, but the prospect is disappointing.
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<p>Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Please don't go to ASU. Its reputation in-state is horrible- even with the honors college.</p>
<p>By the way, I got some financial aid info from U of A (pretty similar to ASU)- horrible. They didn't offer me anything except loans. :/</p>
<p>Dartmouth is the better opportunity in my book even though I think Michigan is a great school. Dartmouth's undergrad resources and undergrad focus make it stand out. Dartmouth has more more resources per undergrad, more spending per student on advising and grants, more prestige, no TAs, far more alumni interaction/ loyalty, superior graduate placement, more flexibility, better recruiters, a more selective student body, less grad deflation, etc. Given Dartmouth is also one of the most social Ivies you'll have fun too. I think its hard to pass up.</p>
<p>Slipper, I disagree with some of your observations. I agree that Dartmouth has more resources per undergrad and more spending per student on advising and grants. However, honors students and students who take the initiative and have the ability have access to a world of opportunities, many of which aren't availlable at a small school like Dartmouth. </p>
<p>I disagree that Dartmouth has better recruiters. All the companies that recruit at Dartmouth also recruit at Michigan.</p>
<p>As far as graduate school placement, students of equal calibre place equally well from both schools because as far as graduate school adcoms are concerned, Dartmouth and Michigan are peers. </p>
<p>Prestige depends on whom you ask. I'd say in highly educated and well informed circles, they are equally well regarded.</p>
<p>No alumni group on Earth is more fiercely loyal than Michigan alums. Many (Dartmouth included) are equaly as loyal, but to say that Dartmouth alums are "far more loyal" is incorrect. All the way out here, in Dubai, roughly 25-35 Michigan alums meet roughly once a month. On March 11, we are hosting Mary Sue Coleman, President of the University. </p>
<p>Finally, I am not sure TAs are such a bad thing. The first thing to keep in mind is that TAs at Michigan do not teach. 97% of classes at Michigan are taught by professors. TAs almost exclusively lead discussion groups, and they generally do a very good job of it.</p>
<p>Yes, and Dartmouth classes are smaller, and discussion groups are smaller. And you would have a much lower cost out of pocket, as more things are included at Darthmouth, rather than UM who will try to nickle and dime you. Check out the Darthmouth Outing Club.</p>
<p>I don't see how this is a question. Unless you were talking about grad school or solely in the state of Michigan, there is no reason to choose UM. Sure, UM Med is awesome, and so on, but as an undergrad - GO TO DARTMOUTH. I would actually advocate Darthmouth over Harvard, due to the greater undergraduate focus. In terms of advising, access, and so on, Dartmouth is the clear winner. Alexandre is correct that UM offers as much as any school, however, offering equal services for a greater student body, the services are spread much thinner.</p>
<p>Michigan is good, definitely a top 30 Undergrad university, and top 10 as a whole, and top 50 UG institution(after adding LAC's). If you want to do something like Engineering, then yes, UM is likely preferable. Otherwise, I don't really see the advantage. Darthmouth is a top 10 UG university, and top 20 undergraduate institution. The graduate schools are the only relative weakness comparing Dartmouth to UM(with the exception of Tuck vs. Ross).</p>
<p>There are 2 reasons to choose UM in that situation - You are an engineer. You can't live without D1 football.</p>
<p>Go to Dartmouth. The choice is blatantly obvious.</p>
<p>Alexandre - UM has a massive alumni association, but as loyal? No, perhaps as loyal to the school itself, but not to fellow alumni. And if you wanted to talk about large Dubai alumni associations, wouldn't MSU be even better? ( ;) ) Due to the greater size and range of abilities at the school, UM alumni are understandably less fiercely loyal. They can't pull strings for people all the time, that is less true about Dartmouth, as there aren't as many alumni, you can go the extra mile for the Dartmouth grad. Alumni help anywhere = UM. Strongest help, but narrower = Dartmouth. We know you love UM Alexandre, but please at least try to be reasonable.</p>
<p>When I saw the title of this thread I thought "If Alexandre and Slipper don't weigh in here its not worth reading!!"...</p>
<p>DSC, I am not biased toward Michigan. I am extremely neutral in my discussions on this forum. I leave all personal preferences out of my discourse.</p>
<p>I agree with a lot of what you say, but again, you make sweeping comments that aren't accurate. </p>
<p>1) You say Michigan is a top 30 undergraduate university but a top 10 university overall. The two are not mutually exclusive. You can be amazing at the undergraduate level but not so strong at the graduate level. However, the opposite is impossibe, umless you have no resources availlable. However, with a faculty of 3,000 and an endowment of $7.1 billion, Michigan has the resources to cater to its undergraduate students. Michigan is a top 20 undergraduate university, and only HYPSM are definite top 10. </p>
<p>2) I am not sure how alums can be loyal to their university but not to each other. I do not follow your logic. Michigan's alumni network is as "strong" as they come...and as large as they come. </p>
<p>Like I said, excellence should be left out of this decision because there is not clear cut winner. The OP should focus on fit.</p>
<p>IVY, NY connections, incredibly well off alums....Go to Dartmouth. Never met an alum who regretted it and I've known plenty from both.</p>
<p>"When I saw the title of this thread I thought "If Alexandre and Slipper don't weigh in here its not worth reading!!"..."</p>
<p>I would not miss it for all the tea in China. And I am willing to admit that the "other" school is just as awesome.</p>
<p>And DKE, Michigan's alumn presence in NY is just as formidable as Dartmouth's...as is the satisfaction of its alums. I challenge you to find me a Michigan alum who did not enjoy his experience at Michigan.</p>
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No alumni group on Earth is more fiercely loyal than Michigan alums. Many (Dartmouth included) are equaly as loyal, but to say that Dartmouth alums are "far more loyal" is incorrect
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<p>"Far more loyal" may not be quite the way to put it. I have to say though, Dartmouth loyalty is on a whole different playing field than most schools out there. It's like a cult in Hanover. Just look at how many Dartmouth students end up marrying another Dartmouth student and then how many of their children end up at Dartmouth. And the place is constantly crawling with alumni. You'd think once they'd graduated they'd go back only for like reunions or even just homecoming and maybe Green Key (both big events at Dartmouth), but no! Many choose to stay to work at Dartmouth and many visit on weekends as if it's no big deal. I visited my best friend up there recently and we ran into an alumna from the first class to graduate women. Apparently, she married a guy from the class of '74 right on campus! And their daughter went to Dartmouth undergrad and then Dartmouth Med! At most schools, such situations are extremely rare but at Dartmouth it's a lot more common.</p>
<p>As for recruiting, I'd say it's like a cult in that arena too. The people who go up to Hanover to recruit are Dartmouth alumni. Not only do they want to give you the job, just to help out a fellow Dartmouth graduate, but they basically bend over backwards to try to help you land some sort of prestigious employment. The interviews are less intimidating, if you're not qualified they'll make recommendations on what you can do before applying again later on in life...Some recruiters may also use their contacts to find you something or recommend other places for you to apply to. I guess that's what DSC was talking about with the alumni at Dartmouth being more loyal to each other but I haven't seen enough Michigan alumni interact in order to know if this is not the case in Michigan as well.</p>
<p>I agree with Alexandre's post #6 ... congrats on your two amazing opportunities ... they are both GREAT schools but also very diffirent schools. I would recommend visiting both schools while they are in session, sit in a couple classes, sleep overnight in a dorm ... and I would be amazed if you do not have a strong preference for one over the other. This preference will come forward because of which school fits YOU better ... all our opinions don't matter ... what matters is which school seems like it will be a better experience for you. And the best thing about your "problem" is you have great choice A and great choice B ... there really is no bad decision based on objective information in my opinion.</p>
<p>Alexandre, one Michigan alum went there because her father and brother were loyal alums who loved it. She found it way too big and impersonal, and made sure that her kids went to Northeastern LACs. Another alum is actually from the B school, Dartmouth undergrad. He thought it was great for grad school, but glad that he had the Dartmouth experience for his undergrad.</p>
<p>dke, obviously, no university is for everybody. That goes for Dartmouth and Michigan. I had a good friend at Michigan who was a very conservative Catholic. She enjoyed Michigan, but she did not love it. Her parents forced her to go to Michigan over Notre Dame because it cost a lot less to attend Michigan and it was closer to home. Another student I knew was way too introverted to fit in at a place like Michigan. Both had a good experience, but they would have doe it differently if they had the choice. I am also sure some who attend Dartmouth feel it is too small and isolated, although most people who attend Dartmouth do so deliberately, whereas Michigan is sometimes a forced decision, particularly for in-staters. </p>
<p>Either way, my only point is that this decision the OP must make is not a "no-brainer". There is no clear cut choice because both schools are awesome in diefferent, almost opposite, ways. I recommend the OP visit both schools and decide because chances are, he will like one more than the other.</p>
<p>I’d like to support the comments of DSC and KittyLow. As academic institutions, U Michigan is one of the top five public universities in the country and one of the top 30 undergraduate colleges in the USA while Dartmouth is one of the top five undergraduate colleges in the country. For anyone other than a Michigan IS student and especially given that $ is not a problem and may even be in Dartmouth’s favor, this is not a close decision. Dartmouth. </p>
<p>The only reasons that I could see a student choosing U Michigan over Dartmouth have to do with non-academic issues. While Dartmouth is social and offers more fun than probably any other Ivy, it is also located in the north woods and is two hours or more from anything. Main Street in Hanover gets old. By contrast, Ann Arbor and the huge student population at U Michigan (40,000 including grad students) make for a much more energetic college scene. And if you are interested in athletic life, the difference is so great that it is ridiculous. U Michigan by far more than a mile. </p>
<p>So, my conclusion is that either choice can be right for the individual, but I think it would be inaccurate to consider U Michigan and Dartmouth as undergraduate academic peers. They’re not and the student body at Dartmouth is significantly stronger. Finally, the Dartmouth “cult” that KittyLow describes is real and the alumni support is as well-Dartmouth breeds a loyalty among its students that only a few schools can match. </p>
<p>I’d love to read the opinions of anyone NOT affiliated with U Michigan who might argue otherwise.</p>
<p>Kittylow, most on-campus recruitment at elite universities is handled by alums of those elite universities. Dartmouth is not special in that regard. And I am well aware of Dartmouth's alumni loyalty. Michigan alum loyalty is just as freaky.</p>