<p>Hawkette, if a student was deadset on studying engineering, would you still recommend Dartmouth over Michigan?</p>
<p>You have to take some consideration for what fields of study the student wishes to pursue. Michigan's resources for an undergraduate student in engineering beats Dartmouth by a mile. It's not just about the strength of the student body.</p>
<p>Alexandre, there is a big difference between the alumni networks at big schools like Wisconsin, Michigan, and UCLA vs. networks at places like Princeton, Amherst, and Dartmouth. The latter set of schools tend to create networks where everyone is two-three degrees of separation from one another (people tend to know people at smaller schools) and this engenders a familial feel. Similarly reunion attendance at the latter group is almost 75% at 5 and ten years, vs a fraction of this at a place like Michigan. These schools tend to create "cults" and there is a loyalty difference. Dartmouth dialogues with its alumni constantly. Alums gets calenders, mugs, or some piece of Dartmouth literature on almost a bi-weekly basis. When the alumni magazine comes out, you actually know the people in the class notes. Small things that make a big difference. </p>
<p>Dartmouth, recruiting-wise, only follows HYP. Dartmouth's legacy in business in among the top 7 schools if you look at the recruiters that come to campus. More top firms do recruit at Dartmouth, and they recruit a higher percentage of the student body (look at vau*lt's list). Also due to special programs in the fall, winter, and spring at the top finance and consulting firms, Dartmouth gets a big leg up even over its Ivy counterparts. </p>
<p>As for engineering, the truth is most Ivy engineers, realizing high finance and consulting are far more lucrative in the long-run, choose to not actually practice engineering. For those that do, Dartmouth places into the best grad schools at a remarkable rate. If you want to actually work at an engineering firm as an engineer, then I do conceded the bigger research driven schools like Michigan and GaTech, are the best. But once again, most Ivy engineers choose not to follow this path.</p>
<p>Dartmouth does everything undergrad well. Its unique even amongst the Ivies in this regard.</p>
<p>GO TO DARTMOUTH - this isnt even close. Ivy league school with GREAT undergrad attention and atmosphere. AND ITS CHEAPER. If you think you are at all interested in law or economics - go to DARTMOUTH, as for engineering, michigan, but other than that Dartmouth is the clear choice</p>
<p>Slipper, I am not going to turn this thread into a Michigan vs Dartmouth debate. You believe dartmouth is better than Michigan. I believe both are good. Let us leave it at that.</p>
<p>
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Michigan hasn't offerred very enticing scholarships, so it may actually may be significantly less expensive ($6-10k/yr) to go to Dartmouth based on financial aid formulas.
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How would you know that? You don't even know if you are admitted at this time, much less the amount of scholarship (vs. loan) you are getting from Dartmouth. Besides, Michigan is not done passing out scholarship yet. I find it hard to believe that Dartmouth would be significantly less expensive, especially since you are in-state.</p>
<p>
[quote]
As for engineering, the truth is most Ivy engineers, realizing high finance and consulting are far more lucrative in the long-run, choose to not actually practice engineering. For those that do, Dartmouth places into the best grad schools at a remarkable rate.
[/quote]
How's that work? Are most Ivy engineers straight A students? What happens to the few who score below 3.2 GPA?</p>
<p>Actually I know a bunch of 3.0-3.2 engineers who got finance jobs at places like Goldman and at consulting firms. They might end up at lesser finance firms, but still into top companies. Also, they tend to get into top grad schools given inflation is likely higher at Ivies.</p>
<p>Considering the average UG GPA's at most top MBA schools is a 3.4-3.6, I really don't think that a 3.2 is a deathnell.</p>
<p>Let me shed some insight:</p>
<p>At top banks and consulting firms, they have a set number of kids that they can take. You would think that at larger schools (e.g., Michigan, Cal) that this would mean more spots would be available at these schools than at schools like Brown or Dartmouth. However, this is not true based on my experiences. In fact, a recruiter a top company said that if you are at a "core" school that has a smaller student body than another core school, you probably have a better chance at getting the interview.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Actually I know a bunch of 3.0-3.2 engineers who got finance jobs at places like Goldman and at consulting firms.
[/quote]
first job?</p>
<p>
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Also, they tend to get into top grad schools given inflation is likely higher at Ivies.
[/quote]
Are you saying most Ivy engineers graduated with above 3.2 GPA?</p>
<p>I'm hoping this leads to a Slipper-Alexandre deathmatch</p>
<p>No chance of that happening. Slipper and I can both agree on one fact. Dartmouth is awesome. For the other half of the equation, the OP is smart enough to make an informed decision on his own. Like I said, he can't go wrong either way.</p>
<p>Similarly I've learned a lot from Alexandre. I do believe that Michigan is one of the finer research universities in the world, and its competitive with places like Cornell, Penn, and Cal in this regard. I also believe that Dartmouth, and perhaps Princeton, provides the best undergrad experience in the world and that it uniquely equips its graduates to do their best whether its getting a top business or finance job or getting into a top grad school. In my eyes this undergrad focus separates the Dartmouth experience from any other, and this is why the my endless - but mutually respected - debate with Alexandre continually remains interesting and somehow refreshing.</p>
<p>If you want undergrad focus, come to Amherst! :)</p>
<p>bluemaster8,
Were you accepted ED by Dartmouth? I know that RD acceptances don't come out before the end of March, so I am puzzled by your question. If you are in ED, then you have committed to Dartmouth. If you are waiting to hear about RD, then you may not have a decision to make.</p>
<p>Either way, there really is no comparison between the two schools...Dartmouth is by far the better choice.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is a better choice, but not "by far" as you mention.</p>
<p>
[quote]
bluemaster8,
Were you accepted ED by Dartmouth? I know that RD acceptances don't come out before the end of March, so I am puzzled by your question. If you are in ED, then you have committed to Dartmouth. If you are waiting to hear about RD, then you may not have a decision to make.
[/quote]
i was going to make the same comment...</p>
<p>Perhaps bluemaster8's S received a likely letter from Dartmouth, which mean barring any major screw ups on his part, he is in. If he has a likely letter the big envelope will definitely come at the end of the month.</p>
<p>That's correct, I applied RD to Dartmouth and recently received a letter indicating that I would be accepted. I think letting me know in advance was an awesome thing for Dartmouth to do. I estimated the financials, so I could be wrong about that part, or may have overstated it, but see the scenario I described in my original post as being a real possibility.</p>
<p>Thank you all for the great information, thoughtful replies, and encouraging words. I'm amazed at the quantity and quality of the responses. I'm grateful to have such a decision to make, I think they are both awesome schools. It looks like I'll be visiting Dartmouth soon, and maybe Michigan (again) too.</p>
<p>Congratulations on you likely letter. You should definitely go to Dimensions (Dartmouth's admitted students days) in April to get a feel as to whether or not life in Hanover is for you. </p>
<p>If you run your #'s through Dartmouth's FA calculator, in our experience it was pretty on point. Depending on where you fall with the new FA initiative, hopefully Dartmouth will be a very affordable option for you and your family. Congrats, once again as you have to wonderful schools to chose from so as you say, it will be all about fit.</p>
<p>all the best.</p>