<p>Since the Jun SAT scores came out, I have been looking at our S's short list of schools. For two of them, his scores would place him significantly above the mid-50% of SAT scores of admitted freshmen. Is that something we should consider when looking at fit or do you think it's pretty much irrelevant?</p>
<p>But he's not above the 75%, right?</p>
<p>Yes, he is above the 75th percentile in both Critical Reading and Math. My understanding is that the mid-50% means the range of scores from the 25th percentile to the 75th percentile.</p>
<p>My understanding is that, for most schools, the students in the bottom 25% would be mostly URMs, legacies, or recruited athletes. So the 75th percentile is really the midpoint for unhooked students. Some schools provide information that is really useful such as # of applicants, acceptances and matriculants in various SAT/ACT ranges - much more useful than the 25/75 numbers.</p>
<p>Nervousmommy is right, if you have that info it's nice. You might also find info about class rank. Those two schools might be safer now - depending on the acceptance rate perhaps even safeties. My experience though is you really can't tell much about how a kid will do in college based on SAT scores. I've known many kids with stellar scores who did very badly in college and others with so-so scores who did very very well. I personally wouldn't choose to go to a college where average scores were 200 points lower than mine, but 50 points is nothing. Even 100 isn't much.</p>
<p>That's a good perspective to have. Also, our S did a lot of test prep, so his scores don't necessarily reflect how smart he is....just that he was prepared for the SAT.</p>
<p>The real key to success in college isn't brains but discipline. If you are an unhooked white are Asian kid your best bet is probably someplace where you are around the 75% percentile. Lower than that at a selective school and your chances of getting in are pretty bad. Higher and they might Tuft's syndrome you.</p>
<p>If you aren't disciplined enough to do your reading and keep up with your assignments and turn in your papers you can be the smartest kid in the class at Pigwallow Normal and you still will not succeed.</p>
<p>
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My understanding is that, for most schools, the students in the bottom 25% would be mostly URMs, legacies, or recruited athletes.
[/quote]
This is a CC myth and certainly not my d's experience. The students in the bottom 25% SAT range for the most part have counterbalancing achievements or GPAs -- that is, they are often very high achievers who test poorly -- and they often do a lot better in college than their high-scoring but less hard-working counterparts.</p>
<p>Scores that are from colleges that superscore your SAT's will be higher than those schools that do not.</p>
<p>Schools where he is in top 25% will be a good choice for merit aid. </p>
<p>Son's NMF friend is having a hard time keeping a 3.0 due to course difficulty and he is well above mid 50%. Some schools do not wait for you or help you catch up. Sink or swim. Some majors, like engineering, have to follow certain guidelines, so the material needed to pass and graduate is the same. It's a nice guideline but nothing more.</p>
<p>Reading the OP's question slightly differently, I'd say that SAT scores have little to do with "fit". Being above the 75% may mean that admission is more likely, and that merit aid may be forthcoming. Fit, however, is more about the "feel" of the place - is this somewhere I could be happy, productive, challenged, successful, etc. for the next 4 years. SAT scores are pretty irrelevant to the latter question.</p>
<p>timely - Could you clarify what you meant by "fit?" I read the title as Chedva did (but considering how often I misinterpret ... sigh).</p>
<p>Chedva, but many people use SAT scores as a shortcut for the intellectual fit of a place. I agree it's of limited value, except to the extent that I would guess that a college with an average SAT score of say 500 (absent honors colleges or other special programs) would feel less intellectual than one where the average is 700. </p>
<p>But a lot more should go into the concept of fit. I'm guessing that Mathson will find a good intellectual fit at CMU despite verbal scores well (90 points) above their 75%. Mostly because he's not looking for a verbal fit.</p>
<p>Fit is far more than SAT score ranges, and so much depends on the personality of the student. My S#2 is easy-going and prefers to set goals and go at his own pace, like many CC students. But unlike most CC students and their parents, he's not looking for an "intellectual" feel. He found a school with a program he's excited about, where he liked the campus and its location near family and not far from a great city, and he felt very comfortable with the students he met there. While his CR is just above the 75% score of the small LAC he'll attend in the fall, his M is 150 points above. But I know his personality, and this won't bother him in the slightest. (It also resulted in him being offered a massive amount of merit aid and Honors program perks, both of which make him happy.) Of course I'll know more a year from now, but looking forward I think that, for MY particular kid, having scores above the 75th percentile looks like a non-problem, given the rest of the package.</p>
<p>mathmom - I agree to a certain extent, so I guess it depends on "how much above the 75% is the student." But if the student likes the other things he sees about the school, I wouldn't let the fact that his scores are higher negate that, or dissuade him from a visit if he hasn't already.</p>
<p>Chiming in here as a two-time veteran of the process to agree with chedva and others that being above the midpoint of SAT scores doesn't necessarily have that much to do with fit. it has to do with admissibility, as my children's HS college counselors used to call it. That is, an unhooked maintream well-qualified applicant needs to be well above the midpoint to have a good chance go get in. "Fit" involves other factors, some tangible and some just "feel"--size, location, kinds of ECs that kids enjoy, nature of political and arts involvement, lack or/prevalence of drinking/drugging culture, accessibility of faculty, and much more. </p>
<p>There are dozens if not a hundred schools where the SAT scores are going to be quite high, but not all of them will be a good fit for a given kid. Simliarly, there are large state universities where the scores may look lower but because of honors colelge and sheer size of undergraduate enrollment there are still many students who are up to any intellectual measure and will provide each other and their classmates with ample stimulation/competition/support.</p>
<p>To sum up, I'd say let the scores be a guide in terms of giving your child a sense of where he/she can realistically apply, or where a reach might be in order, but let the other aspects of any school determine what is really a "fit."</p>
<p>timely -- I'm wondering if you aren't thinking that maybe a couple of the schools on his list won't be challenging enough for him? Chedva's posts, and Mootmom's, make sense. It might matter that his scores are higher than most of the kids, but then again, it might not, depending on what the kid needs/wants from his college experience.</p>
<p>Another thought is that a good list has reaches, matches and safeties. Perhaps these schools fall in the latter 2 categories, and he should be sure to have some reaches as well to have a well-balanced list.</p>
<p>There is also the consideration (certainly measured not only by SAT scores) of whether you'd rather be at the top of the pack at a less challenging school or in the middle of the pack at a more challenging school. There's no right or wrong answer. I've always told my kids that it's like tennis -- playing with a better player will make you better -- so you should go for the more challenging environment and push yourself to rise to the occasion. But some kids might get discouraged if they get "B's" when they are used to "A's." It's an individual choice.</p>
<p>My D's SAT's put her in the top 1-2 percent of her college class and she has not only done fine but has had spectacular college experiences and the "fit" has been like hitting a five-cherry slot jackpot on a slot machine. Regardless of scores, she found a very large group of peers at her college, both intellectually and temperamentally. If the school passes all the other tests, don't worry about SAT scores. As an added bonus, if your scores are towards the top, you may get some merit aid offers.</p>
<p>TheDad -- that is wonderful -- five cherries! -- sounds like your daughter is having the ind of college experience that we wish for all of our kids.</p>
<p>I second TheDad's comments. Though our DS's hs record did not put him in the 1-2% stratosphere he was easoly in the top 15%(?). Given the successes and happiness he has experience in his first 3 years(my, how time flied), the $100,000 in scholarships is almost incidental.</p>
<p>If a college your child has applied to begins to emerge as a clear favorite for important reasons, support their decision. If you have to forego a car decal more impressive to the neighbors that is a small price to pay in supporting your child in this important choice.</p>