This may be news for current HS parents, but a similar article was published in 2010 by a reporter who found families to interview here at CC. If I can scare up the link, I’ll post it.
We’re a middle class doughnut hole family, and this would have been us if S hadn’t made NMF. As it is, S took 30+ units of general ed. courses as a dual enrollment student. Tuition was free, so we only paid for books. The CCs here in CA are quite good, and the focus is on teaching.
Two years, often with free tuition, and then a guaranteed transfer to a UC? It’s an excellent value proposition.
As an example, in addition to UC and Cal State schools, SBCC has an Honors transfer agreement with places like Pitzer, Loyola Marymount and Pomona. If it’s good enough for Pomona, you know it’s pretty darn good.
We are lucky that we have a great community college (Santa Monica College), but I just read an article that said going to community college first can add two and a half years to get a degree from a UC and three years to get a degree from a CSU (so 6.5 years and 7 years respectively for a BA or BS). I’m not sure if this is due to difficulty getting needed classes or what. I’ll post the link when I find it.
If the CC is impacted, and then the 4-year school is also impacted, yes, it can be a problem. As a dual enrollment student, S had to register dead last, no matter how many credits he had. We had to camp the wait list a couple of times, but there was never a semester where he flat out didn’t get a course he wanted.
It may be different at other CCs, though.
Hmm, one of the first things that hits me from the LA School Report article is the student saying she was taking all these courses not knowing they wouldn’t transfer.
I can’t speak for all CCs, but at SBCC, it’s very obvious on each individual course page whether or not the class transfers, right down to which system and for what kind of credit. Another student says he had problems because he didn’t take advantage of advising soon enough.
Sounds like advising might be a problem in general, at the school level for not publicizing it more or making it mandatory, and at the student level for not taking advantage of. Granted, it’s hard to take advantage of something if you don’t know it exists.
The numbers for ADT (associates-for-transfer degree) look much better.
Other considerations in addition to time to graduate include what major you would like to study, and which university you would like to transfer into. For example the transfer admission rate into the business program at Berkeley is 6%, and transfer admission rate into business information management at Irvine is 8%. If you are planning to transfer to a CSU, eligibility in the local context is a big factor. If you take even one CC course at a community college that is not in the designated ELC area for the Cal State you wish to transfer to, your chances of being successful are much lower. At a parents evening at our high school we were told by one of the advisers from our local CC that he had a accounting student with a 4.0 GPA who was unable to transfer into San Diego State because of this. Another thing he told us was that ADT was not well liked by California colleges who felt that it had been forced on them.
Looks like this “100% at local CCs” rule for the local area preference in transfer admission is specific to SDSU: http://arweb.sdsu.edu/es/admissions/transfers/apply/pathways.html .
Other CSUs define their local service areas differently: https://www2.calstate.edu/apply/freshman/documents/csulocaladmission-serviceareas.pdf .
http://arweb.sdsu.edu/es/admissions/transfers/gpa.html suggests that the accounting major transfer GPA threshold was 2.90. Could it be that the student was missing a key course requirement for transfer admission?
At our kid’s Catholic high school, the number of kids going the community college route continues to increase. North Carolina has a statewide comprehensive articulation agreement between community colleges and state universities. It assures admission to a state U with Junior standing if you complete the AA or AS degree.
I’m not sure at what point in history it became “unfashionable” to use a CC to U path outside of California, but it’s a shame. College is SO expensive and freshman year is often classes that could easily be taken and completed at a far lower cost at a local CC. I know in our state there are some CCs that are academically robust and not used solely as 2-year associates/professional institutions and it really is a relative bargain for kids that choose that path. Articulation agreements would seem the best possible solution.
I can’t say for CA, but back in Michigan in the mid-eighties, nobody wanted to be the kid who had to say they were going to Delta College instead of U of M, MSU or Central.
@momofthreeboys, I think that has always been the case in many states dating back from the times when pretty much only the upper/upper-middle-class went to live-away at a 4-year college, less well-off urban kids went to a commuter school, and CC’s were more trade schools in those states.
Not all states developed a robust CC-to-top-in-state-public pathway as early as CA did.
Two observations.
One, who wants a sticker from the local cc on their suv?
Two, The middle class is really squeezed by out of control College costs.
“who wants a sticker from the local cc on their suv?”
And if you don’t get to put a brag-worthy sticker on your car, what’s the point of going to college, right?
@knosledgeisgood- I agree with you about the middle classe being squeezed by out-of-control college costs. It seems only the very wealthy and very poor (who get need-based aid) can truly afford private colleges.
^^ I drove an old car with no college sticker to a cc in Illinois where I got 2 years of credits ( every single one of which transferred) and graduated from a decent private college 2 years after that. My siblings, several cousins and many of my friends did the same. We are now CPA’s, lawyers, doctors, teachers, engineers, college professors, etc. we were smart kids from middle class families and we were fortunate to have a really good cc nearby.
Only a relatively small percentage of private colleges offer good financial aid to students from low income families. Most of these are extremely selective, so students from low income families need to be top-end students (which is often more difficult for them than for students from high income families with parents, teachers, and counselors keeping them on the college admissions fast-track) to get admitted to those colleges, or earn big merit scholarships at other colleges.
Of course, it is easy for an upper middle class family to join the ranks of the poor by quitting their jobs in favor of low paying ones and giving away most or all of their money and other valuable assets to their favorite charities. Then they can get all of the financial aid that they envy the poor getting, and not have to pay as much income tax that they tend to complain about.
@ucbalumnus - I’m all for need-based aid; my nephew was able to go to a four-year college because of It. But one can be for need-based-aid and still be concerned about families in the donut hole, or whatever it’s called.
The eighties was just yesterday but I digress. No one absolutely no one cares where you start college as the only relevant datapoint is where you got your degree but somehow it has morphed into everyone needs to go to a four year sleep away college and I am not so sure that is a necessary national mission. I tend to think if a family can afford it then go for it, but I do not think it is wise to assume debt or plunder retirement accounts to fund that experience. It is painful to think that some young people also think they are entitled to a private college experience. I do hope there is renewed focus on community colleges and alternate paths to graduation in the coming decade for the next gen of college students.