<p>I only recieved 1000 in grants, most of the good scholarships that aren't affiliated with the schools are either solely based or partly based on financial need, and i'm working two jobs. On the other hand, lower income students from my school are going to school for free and don't even have to take up a job while i'm working two and will still owe money... that efc is bull.</p>
<p>southpasdena, what about kids that did not get accepted into their state schools, and are limited to higher-priced private schools? Do you really expect a part-time job to pay off 45k+ tuition a year?</p>
<p>"southpasdena, what about kids that did not get accepted into their state schools"</p>
<p>There is always a CC for few years then state school.</p>
<p>Some of the resentment middle class parents feel about this issue results from the stories they hear other parents tell - the "trips" and "trappings", then the tales of scholarships won. Some people are just born storytellers - and I do mean these are stories of the fictional sort. I take it all with a grain of salt, having heard more than once about a bright child receiving a full academic scholarship to Harvard. (Harvard doesn't give them.) </p>
<p>It helps to keep that in mind when filtering the swirl of 'news' around you.</p>
<p>Good point! People do tend to brag.</p>
<p>
[quotesouthpasdena, what about kids that did not get accepted into their state schools, and are limited to higher-priced private schools? Do you really expect a part-time job to pay off 45k+ tuition a year?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>seriously, every state has a school system that will accept the minimum - 2.XX GPA and 900 SAT</p>
<p>Cal States
SUNY - CUNY
Iowa State
Florida State
Washington state
OSU
ETC and i can go on and on. And if you screw up so badly, as said before, there is community college. And if one is put into that situation, there is no complaining as your actions determined where you would be</p>
<p>I'd just like to point out that the SUNYs and the better CUNYs are not a sure bet for truly average to below average students anymore. Lot of those kids are shut completely out of the SUNYs.</p>
<p>"I'd just like to point out that the SUNYs and the better CUNYs are not a sure bet for truly average to below average students anymore. Lot of those kids are shut completely out of the SUNYs."</p>
<p>This is precisely the population that open admission public colleges (i.e., CC's and the "not better" CUNY's) is designed to serve. For such a person to pony up the 45K to which doctorsboy refers would not be a good allocation of resources.</p>
<p>When I was a senior, I had to turn down all the colleges I applied to and instead, at the last minute, go into the Connecticut State University system as a commuter. It was very demotivational to have to do so. In my case, it was because my parents refused to fill out the FAFSA - I almost certainly would have been given substantial aid, since neither of my parents graduated from high school, I was the first person in my family to go to college, and we were definitely working class.</p>
<p>It was very much like leaving high school to go to a bigger high school. I had to commute since I was paying my own way and I couldn't afford to live on campus - I had to borrow my mother's station wagon to commute, and that limited my social life, since I had to have it back home by 4pm every day. I felt like I lost all my forward momentum when I was going there.</p>
<p>I didn't want the same thing to happen to my daughter. So we'll take on some debt, she'll take on some debt, we'll work our way through it. Every time I panic, I remind myself that we are going to paying less than we would have paid for her to go to UCONN.</p>
<p>"This is precisely the population that open admission public colleges (i.e., CC's and the "not better" CUNY's) is designed to serve. For such a person to pony up the 45K to which doctorsboy refers would not be a good allocation of resources"</p>
<p>I agree with you to an extent, however the "not better" CUNYs -- including the College of Staten Island in my neighborhood, are so unbelievably crowded that it's almost impossible to graduate in four years, and there many of those dead-on average kids (one of whom is my kid who will be going to a nice private school with merit money) want a four-year experience and could succeed at that. I'm talking about the kids with the 1000 SAT scores and 85-ish grades in school who would have expected a SUNY education in years past. Nowadays, some get in and some don't. Not a value judgment here, just a lament that some kids who could do just fine can't get in anymore because of crowding. I'm not comfortable with the idea that some kids who want it don't merit the whole college experience.</p>
<p>The middle class carries the country. We get no breaks on tuition, taxes, healthcare costs, etc etc etc. The middle class is one month away from bankruptcy if a serious calamity affects the family like a death or serious illness. Our EFC is going to be 50K, and I'd like to know where they think that mountain of money is for us to use! I drive a 10 year old car, don't take vacations, and don't eat out. I cannot even afford car insurance for my son, never mind get him a car. The mountain of money is I guess home equity, but you still have to be able to make the payment each month. Then I guess we can tap our paltry 401Ks for tuition and get tax penalized. Even our state university system is going to cost us 30K a year, state colleges at least 20K with all expenses. It is embarassing to think and discouraging beyond belief to think that our son cannot even go to a better college than his parents did.<br>
The private colleges need to start spending their outrageously large endowments to lower the costs of tuition and fees for everyone. And just how many courses at these elite private schools are taught by TA's? Rant.</p>
<p>"Remember that private schools are buisnesses like Nike or Microsoft. "</p>
<p>Not so. Nearly all universities are non-profit, tax exempt organizations. What you want to keep on eye on is how they allocate funds in the university and college. State universities have a lot of deferred maintenance, while the buildings at the privates are in great shape. Faculty are paid more at the private universities. And there are nicer grounds and (usually) better service operations to students, whether those are gyms, counseling centers, or alumni support offices.</p>
<p>"I'm not comfortable with the idea that some kids who want it don't merit the whole college experience."</p>
<p>It depends what you mean by "the whole college experience." Clearly, given the structure of the American economy, the opportunity to obtain a college degree is critical to one's ability to get a good job. However, the concept of college as extended summer camp as well is unique to the affluent classes. In that sense, the "whole college experience" is a luxury.</p>
<p>When I went to college, we were definitely poor and I got a full tuition scholarship to attend the state university, but not enough to cover room and board. The financial struggle caused me to drop out after 2 years. (I finished college many years later, but that's another story). I am far better off financially than my parents were, but still solidly middle class. Our EFC was $37,000 -- an impossible amount for us to cover. Although my son was accepted at a great public school out of state, he had to choose an in-state school or accept a debt at graduation of more than 50K. We drive very old cars, (10 years and 14 years), don't have any credit card debt, and have put most of our resources into retirement savings (a necessity for us, as my husband was a carpenter and had no benefits of any kind for 25 years). I don't expect my kid to get a free ride by any means, but I do think there is a gap for middle class kids that is hard to fill. Unless they are academic superstars (and these days, my son's 4.5 W gpa and 1420 SATs are not enough to qualify!) there isn't much available in scholarships, and he doesn't even qualify for federal student loans. Having been on both sides of the fence -- poor and middle class -- I just think there should be a better way for ALL of our kids.</p>
<p>"In that sense, the "whole college experience" is a luxury."</p>
<p>Since the SUNYs and CUNYs are paid for with tax dollars, I'd like to see more support for those institutions that will allow more students to go away to college. You may not agree and that's ok, but I don't think average kids should be shut out of going away and all that involves. Although there are many private schools in the area that are good to average kids, so perhaps there is some balance.</p>
<p>"Unless they are academic superstars (and these days, my son's 4.5 W gpa and 1420 SATs are not enough to qualify!) there isn't much available in scholarships"</p>
<p>I respectfully disagree. My kid is not an academic superstar (although she DID hang the moon), and she applied to lower level private schools, many of which were very generous to her. She didn't get full rides, but she did get enough to make it doable if she works and assumes some of the debt. Not optimal, but there's nothing wrong with working for what she wants.</p>
<p>My kid is ready to work too, but in spite of multiple scholarship applications, he was offered nothing by any of the schools he applied to. (All public schools) He will have to work no matter where he goes, and he is willing to do that. Maybe scholarship opportunties differ depending on the major -- his is engineering.</p>
<p>Maybe Orchid. That could be it. Mine wants to be a high school bio teacher and has some very good ECs for that. She also looked pretty low in terms of where she applied to. Maybe she could have applied higher. Who knows?</p>
<p>I'm glad your daughter was able to get support. Any kid who "hung the moon" deserves the royal treatment! :-)</p>
<p>There aren't as many engineering programs as there are liberal arts programs, so perhaps that makes a difference, too.</p>
<p>Here I sit accepted into Cornell, Carnegie Mellon and University of Rochester.</p>
<p>Cornell has been a dream school to me and I've worked really had to get in.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I can't go. Cornell promises 100% of need in their financial aid, but I simply cannot afford their education when I'm getting $0 in aid. How exactly does that work? If I can't afford the education (as in, my family would go into such deep debt that they might not recover for retirement), how do I NOT qualify for aid?</p>
<p>And another point - the FAFSA looks at 401 ks and other family investments. Do colleges not realize that retirement is now in these type of accounts? Such assets are not to be touched and don't even factor into any sort of measure of "wealth." It's merely retirement offered by some companies, not spending money.</p>
<p>Whatever the case, I won't go to an Ivy or a New Ivy now, even though I worked like crazy to get in. If they don't want to revise their aid systems, I'll go someplace that actually wants me and that I can afford.</p>
<p>Good luck out there.</p>
<p>Matthew Souva
Clarkson University Honors Program
Class of 2011</p>