<p>BESIDES the all-girl part, how would you compare these schools
A. academically
B. life-style wise?</p>
<p>Thanks bunches!</p>
<p>P.S. Please no one divert this thread from the above-posted topic to telling me it doesn't make sense to transfer from Smith to Wellesley. Been there, thought about it, don't need a repeat.</p>
<p>Well my brother went to Bowdoin, and we live really close to the school, + I hardcore researched Wellesley before I applied, so I have some idea. </p>
<p>Basically, Middlebury & Bowdoin are very very similar. The student body is comprised of the same mix of people, the academics at both schools are equally strong. Middlebury is said to be better with languages, while Bowdoin is said to stand out for government. However, all three schools are on the same level as far as academics go.</p>
<p>As for the lifestyle, these two schools are very outdoorsy and a huge percentage of the students are involved in athletics in one way or another. The outing clubs at M & B are, as my brother just said "ridiculous." Pretty much everyone is involved. Wellesley is much less oriented around athletics and the outdoors. Bowdoin probably has the nicest rooms & best food of the three, but the campus isn't as gorgeous as Middlebury's or Wellesley's. Wellesley is closer to a major city than the other two. </p>
<p>I think that's enough for now.</p>
<p>Can't really say too much. I applied to Bowdoin, got in, and chose Wellesley. Wellesley was closer to my house, gave me more money, and I fell in love with the obs. The way my life is now, I don't see myself anywhere else.
I considered Middlebury, but didn't bother because of the distances. I've heard it's excellent as far as languages go. I visited, not as a prospee, but this past October for an Astro constortium. It was nice enough. We sat in some auditorium all day, and listened to presenters from a bunch of different schools, Middlebury students among them, but I really don't know much about their school besides the fact that the observatory is on a roof of a really tall building.</p>
<p>As far as location goes, both times I visited Bowdoin, we stopped at the L. L. Bean outlet after. There was also a small town with shops near the school, but we went for the big outlets. (Apparently Don McLean was playing right outside the store that night too). There are a lot of pine trees. Middlebury is way up the mountains in Vermont, and I understand you are closer to Canada than Massachusetts. There's a small town that Middlebury is a part of, but we didn't stop, and I was never a tourist when I visited. Of the campuses, Middlebury felt like the biggest and most urban.
Wellesley is also part of a small town, where you can walk to get anything that's really necessary, with a mall within driving distance. The school provides fair transportation to Boston, which brings most of the parties that you would find otherwise find on campus at Wellesley away from it, leaving the campus itself relatively peaceful. We get the Boston Marathon running right in front the school in April. Sports aren't a big presence at Wellesley (I got that impression visting Bowdoin, and we ate dinner at a Sports hall near a golf course at Middlebury, so they might be there too). Basically, if you are on a team, you care about it, your friends might care about how your sport is going and watch you, but people not directly involved don't care. I imagine it's a women's college thing-which is the elephant in the room in all the questions you are asking.</p>
<p>Academics- I know you don't feel challenged at Smith, and while Wellesley is considered the best of the Women's colleges, I don't get the impression Smith is a school that is significantly less difficult. I do know that a lot of smart people find college too easy if they go to a school where parties are prominent, they got a full academic merit scholarship The way TheDad talks, you could substitute the word Smith for Wellesley, and it wouldn't jump out at me as not being about my school.
At Wellesley, I'm challenged in the math/sciences for the first time in my life. The notables on my high school stats include a 1570 on the old SAT, valedictorian of my mediocre public hs, Girl Scout Gold Award, Harvard reject :-), and a full year worth of Wellesley credit for my AP scores. As a double major in Math and Astrophysics who overloads her schedule, I'm not really wallowing in academic boredom- I overwork myself sometimes if truth be told- but I don't feel like my roomates, who take less classes than me, have it any better- people work here. I've sought out a lot of opportunities in the Astro department, and I enjoy the friends I've made here. I'm also into the quiet life, so Wellesley is perfect for me.
What sort of things do you like to do at Smith? That would help me tell you stuff.</p>
<p>Wendy, :) I think Wellesley and Smith are more alike than different. I think each school is the other's closest "comparable," like UCLA & U/Michigan. Not that there aren't differences but that someone at home at one is going to feel a strong sense of familiarity at the other, individual preferences about one aspect or another notwithstanding.</p>
<p>Now that you mention it, I went to a study-abroad meeting about a month ago. The 12 college exchange was brought up, and the woman running the meeting advised against using it to go to a place like Smith, because there wouldn't be too much different about the experience. :-)</p>
<p>I forgot a few things in reading posts on the other sides: Wellesley has a 4-1-4 schedule, the 1 being a Wintersession, where you can do things at MITs IAP, take a (very limited selection) course for credit here, take a for-credit course abroad (London, Paris, Morocco), work, take PE, participate in a play, take a non-credit course, etc. I'm two days into Wintersession right now: I'm taking PE, a Wellesley course (taught by Olin professors), working with a professor, and will be startig a non-credit course in Astrophotography. Spring semester starts in very late January.<br>
The other thing that sets Wellesley apart from Bowdoin (I don't know about Middlebury) is diversity. Bowdoin is about 90%+ white, whereas Wellesley is about 44% white (plus about 25% Asian which some people don't believe is diversity, but I don't really want to open up that arguement), and is the most diverse school on the East Coast.</p>
<p>bowdoin's more than 90% white? this is news to me... there must be a lot of white people on campus that i'm not seeing.</p>
<p>I thought Bowdoin's white percentage was in the 70's somewhere. Still high, but definitely not 90%+.</p>
<p>From PR, what I think is 2004 data:</p>
<p>Caucasian 74, Asian 10, African American 5, Hispanic 5, Native American 1, International 3.</p>
<p>Wellesley isn't 44% white -it's probably closer to 50% including "unreported." What do I like about Smith? Some very nice, passionate students. The pretty scenery. I have met some very impressive leaders through the College Democrats Club. And I'd say roughly half of my classes were enjoyable, even though I'd only describe about 1/4 as challenging to get above a B+. </p>
<p>With further regards to academics, I know there's a lot of competition between Wellesley and Smith, and the out-of-classroom experience might be "similar," but there aren't many instances among colleges where people would work so hard to say that a school is going to be on the same level as another school with SATs 100-pts higher. In university terms that's like the difference between Boston U and Cornell. I suppose whether two schools are "comparable," though, is a relative concept. For what it's worth, I talked to a biology professor who went to Smith thirty years ago, and she said Wellesley was "stepped up a bit." So Bowdoin, Wellesley, etc. are probably somewhat more challenging than Smith, just not as much as say, Swarthmore.</p>
<p>As far as why I'm wanting to transfer, academic rigor is A reason but not the most importnat reason. Primarily, I want a school that offers strong programs in Environmental Policy and Environmental Science. Also another reason that is not the most important is that I'd like a school with easier access to boys. Since my GPA at Smith was 3.6 with an overloaded schedule and I'm interested in grad/professional school, I probably don't want to go to a school where I would struggle to pull a 3.4 with a normal schedule.</p>
<p>Could someone answer for me whether the average Wellesley student does most of the reading for class and talks/argues in class? Because I suppose that's one of my major frustrations with Smith, is that in all my classes maybe 1/4 of the class actually participates in-class regularly and does all the homework, so it slows down the pace of the class. I hate it when more class time is spent telling the non-readers or people who have difficulty with Plato what the reading said, instead of actually debating the concepts in the reading.</p>
<p>{Because I suppose that's one of my major frustrations with Smith, is that in all my classes maybe 1/4 of the class actually participates in-class regularly and does all the homework}</p>
<p>You have no basis for that accusation nor any facts to back up your distorted views. Your complaint on another thread was 1/2 of the students do their reading etc. Which is it?</p>
<p>Ecape has been playing this game for some time. Shes either a very confused Smith student or a troll--take your pick. Her gpa changes depending on which day it is too</p>
<p>Interested writes:</p>
<p>{{To amplify for those playing along at home, ecape didn't get accepted to Ivy League schools with a so-so high school GPA relative to test scores and enrolled at Smith as freshman. My guess is that ecape went to what she perceived as a "safety" school with the attitude that it was beneath her.</p>
<p>Sure enough, by the end of first semester, ecape had determined that Smith wasn't "intellectual" enough and got accepted as a transfer student to both Swarthmore and Chicago. This began literally months of indecision, including asking for extensions on deciding from both schools. Well before the end of the decision process, several of us Swattie parents were actively recommending UChicago because, frankly, we got the sense that ecape wasn't going to be happy anywhere so better that it not be at Swarthmore. Everytime anyone gave positive encouragement for either school as a good fit, ecape came back with a laundry list of why that school wouldn't be "perfect". The majority of ecape's posts at the time focused on which school would be most "prestigious" and which would be more likely to get her into the "best" grad school programs.</p>
<p>To no surprise, just a month or two into the first semester at Chicago as a sophmore, ecape was back with a litany of reasons why Chicago was a miserable experience. As predictable as the sun rising in the east. Knowing that transfer applications to a third school would be met with skepticism, she decided to drop out of Chicago, presumably flushing $20 grand down the toilet. The plan was to pretend Chicago never happened and re-enroll at Smith to begin the process of what would, on paper, hopefully look like the first transfer. The colleges under consideration this time around have, frankly, been all over the map.</p>
<p>I hate to "out" ecape on this saga, but the first post in this thread is so misleading and disingenuous that it is hard to just leave it out there. }}</p>
<p>source: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=125442&page=2&pp=20%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=125442&page=2&pp=20</a></p>
<p>By Elizabeth22 to ecape</p>
<p>{Honestly, I'm just blown away by the arrogance of calling a school as good as Smith "not academically challenging" when one's GPA is far from perfect. Take a fifth class, take advanced classes outside your major, pick up Chinese, go pre-med, self-study ancient Greek- there are any number of things you can do to create an academically challenging environment for yourself. You're at a great school with dedicated professors and intelligent classmates- instead of feeling above it all, try appreciating it.}</p>
<p>roadlesstraveled,</p>
<p>I got the 1/4-1/2 students thing from my experience in all the classes I took, both introductory, advanced in my major, and advanced out of my major. An informal poll of 5 or so friends in different majors, with different levels of academic proficiency yielded the same results.</p>
<p>In your quote of interesteddad, he got some crucial stuff wrong, as you would have noticed if you'd read all the posts on that thread. I never spent money on a period I dropped out of, for instance. I ended up not transferring to UChi. Secondly, why the HECK are you trying to discredit my ability to ask questions on this site? I don't know why you're on this site, but I'll give you full discretion to use it to learn whatever you wish, irregardless of any imperfections in your personality or lack of a perfect 4.0GPA, etc. You have too much time on your hands if you feel you have to attack someone you have never even met.</p>
<p>{Because I suppose that's one of my major frustrations with Smith, is that in all my classes maybe 1/4 of the class actually participates in-class }</p>
<p>You say youre simply looking for transfer info but disparage Smith at every opportunity on other sites with no facts.</p>
<p>.
Have everyone read the entire Smith site and they can decide for themselves</p>
<p>TheDad writes</p>
<p>{{Smith is in the top two percent for graduate and professional school admissions. And Smith graduates are heavily over-represented in the upper levels of industry and government, from CEO's to Congress.</p>
<p>A friend of D's who is a junior transferred from Smith to Brown this year. She says that the grading is a <em>little</em> harder but that the workload is definitely lighter.</p>
<p>I know a number of Smith students who would be "best students" who didn't choose to go to the "best co-ed" schools as the OP asserts. I don't know all Smith students but I know quite a few and none of them are idiots and virtually all are working their butts off. I spoke to D about this earlier today and she said that B's are relatively easy to get, A's much more difficult...a pattern that matches Stanford, Harvard, and many of the Ivies. D certainly had better grades/scores out of high school than the OP and has had no problem feeling challenged by her classes at all. I listen to the stress in D's voice around mid-terms and finals and I listen to her compare notes with classmates afterwards and <em>none</em> of them are unchallenged. As another note, I think if you read that skewed sample posting on DailyJolt, you will find enough testimony, both explicit and implicit, about the rigor of Smith.</p>
<p>D's comment about the OP: she's not obviously in the Math/Sciences. And that "doing all the readings" is a superficial standard for engagement and achievement in a class. There are classes/profs who aren't rigorous (I suspect that this occurs virtually anywhere) but if rigor is what you want, there's plenty there and you avoid the profs/classes that aren't.}}</p>
<p>Source <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=1679672#post1679672%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=1679672#post1679672</a></p>
<p>I'm speaking from the classes I have taken and my personal experience, as well as what my friends have said they would guestimate from their experience. I have represented my personal experience as honestly as possible. Have you, roadlesstraveled, sat in on many classes at Smith to have anecdotal evidence contrary to what I say? The ONLY reason I bring up what I perceive as a lack of student participation at Smith on the Wellesley board is to ask if Wellesley has more student-participation. </p>
<p>Finally, it is believable that grades would only be a little harder at Brown, because Brown has more grade inflation than Smith. I never said EVERYONE at Smith was dumber than EVERYONE at Brown, UChi, even Harvard. There is some overlap.</p>
<p>I've never really looked around and counted student participation. It depends on the class, how busy you are and how much you can get away with it. I feel that most people do readings, but I take science and math classes, where there aren't a lot of readings to do.</p>
<p>What do I like about Smith? Some very nice, passionate students. The pretty scenery. I have met some very impressive leaders through the College Democrats Club. And I'd say roughly half of my classes were enjoyable, even though I'd only describe about 1/4 as challenging to get above a B+.</p>
<p>With further regards to academics, I know there's a lot of competition between Wellesley and Smith, and the out-of-classroom experience might be "similar," but there aren't many instances among colleges where people would work so hard to say that a school is going to be on the same level as another school with SATs 100-pts higher. In university terms that's like the difference between Boston U and Cornell. I suppose whether two schools are "comparable," though, is a relative concept. For what it's worth, I talked to a biology professor who went to Smith thirty years ago, and she said Wellesley was "stepped up a bit." So Bowdoin, Wellesley, etc. are probably somewhat more challenging than Smith, just not as much as say, Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Primarily, I want a school that offers strong programs in Environmental Policy and Environmental Science. - I have a friend who has taken a couple Environmental Studies classes, but I don't know anything about the department.</p>
<p>Also another reason that is not the most important is that I'd like a school with easier access to boys. - I'm not sure how available boys are with the Five College Consortium. Access here is fair. If you don't mind a 45 min to an hour commute (My roomate did this daily for high school), then you won't care, but others do.</p>
<p>Since my GPA at Smith was 3.6 with an overloaded schedule and I'm interested in grad/professional school, I probably don't want to go to a school where I would struggle to pull a 3.4 with a normal schedule.</p>
<p>It depends on the person.</p>