Midwestern colleges for a California girl?

Parents Forum
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<p>"The thing is, sally305, some of us think she could get significant merit aid at higher ranked LACs where the peer group and quite possibly the instruction in the sciences could be better, and therefore should not rule them out.</p>

<p>Research in the sciences is definitely present at LACs, but some are much more known than others in the sciences, and there certainly are some standouts. Warriordaughter can easily assess this by looking at faculty publications.</p>

<p>(I was not aware of a another thread, sorry – that is news to me.) "</p>

<p>This exactly. I don’t turn my nose up at any of the OP’s options- it’s for her to determine the “fit”, not a bunch of random strangers on the internet. I had no idea she’s got another thread going- sorry for not piecing together the dots. And I specifically said that my concerns had nothing to do with faculty- there are superb faculty everywhere, including community colleges, prison writing courses, teaching part time on military bases, etc. Superb faculty.</p>

<p>Namaste. I know kids who follow the merit money and thrive, and others (many of whom post here) who regret their decision and wish they’d cast a wider net for an affordable school where the overall student body was more engaged. There are kids who take the merit offer and graduate Phi Beta Kappa, get Marshall and Fulbright scholarships, and never look back-- and kids who wonder why their college experience is so much like HS where they don’t have a wide range of friends who share their interests or who are as passionate as they are about their studies.</p>

<p>I have no idea into which group the OP might fall. But frankly, neither do you. So don’t assume I’m turning up my nose at the faculty (I’m not).</p>

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<p>sally305-- aw shucks. You flatter me :)</p>

<p>Just to clarify, I’m not limiting myself to the Midwest-- that region of the country just seems to have a lot of lovely LAC merit aid, of which there seems to be a dearth in California. (Hence, Rhodes and Santa Clara on the List even though they’re not in the Midwest.)</p>

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<p>This is exactly what I’m hoping to find! I have started looking at faculty publications, but it’s difficult to figure out what the standouts are when I don’t have much of a frame of reference. Could you give some specific examples of those “higher ranked LACs”/“standouts”?</p>

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<p>Well, a couple of standouts in the sciences that immediately come to mind are Swarthmore and Reed. Perhaps other posters can list some more.</p>

<p>I just checked and there is an old thread on this:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/881117-more-science-y-liberal-arts-colleges.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/881117-more-science-y-liberal-arts-colleges.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I like the lists that show production of PhDs because that tells me the college does a good job of supporting “love of learning” kids. Although not a fan of lists, I find those sorts of list far more enlightening than most.</p>

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<p>Oberlin not only because of my bias as an alum, but also because I’ve heard from several STEM faculty at elite STEM colleges…including MIT that they liked Oberlin grads in their graduate departments. Also, have a college friend who is about to/has probably completed his STEM PhD at Harvard after doing a double degree with the conservatory majoring in chemistry/viola.</p>

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<p>LBowie… and therein lies the rub. Neither Swarthmore nor Reed gives merit aid. But thanks for the helpful link!</p>

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<p>cobrat, even though Oberlin has a few more moderate and conservative students, it is not the atmosphere that the OP desires. </p>

<p>Although it is not an LAC, I do hope that you look into U of Rochester. They do give merit aid and great science.</p>

<p>Also for Midwestern LACs I wanted to show you the link for DePauw’s science fellows program.
<a href=“http://www.depauw.edu/academics/honorsfellows/science-research-fellows/[/url]”>Science Research Fellows - DePauw University;

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<p>Yes, I realize that about merit. How about Kenyon? I don’t know its general reputation for science but know a chemist who went there.</p>

<p>Grinnell has been mentioned a lot in this thread. How big are their merit awards?</p>

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<p>Keep in mind many of those top LAC’s that don’t give merit aid are very generous with need-based if you qualify. It could work out to the same bottom line?</p>

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<p>Merit money and engaged students are not mutually exclusive. In fact many of the schools being discussed here (along with other lesser-known LACs that are likely too liberal for the OP) are known for their high levels of student engagement.</p>

<p>It is also a mistake to assume a correlation between school ranking and engagement. There have been numerous threads on this site about the “intellectualism” of students at various schools, and there is no direct line between USNWR ranking (with its flawed methodology and emphasis on variables that have nothing to do with classroom experience) and student engagement (such as is measured by the NSSE). I would not expect to have intellectual discussions with a driven student at Penn or Dartmouth whose unflinching goal was to get a lucrative job in finance (at some Ivy League schools, the number of students pursuing that path is well over 25% of the student body). I would expect to find a higher level of intellectualism among students at a LAC that fosters “learning for the sake of learning” and produces a lot of graduates who go on to earn PhDs in their field.</p>

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<p>I was addressing Lbowie’s question about LACs with strong STEM programs. Also addressed Oberlin’s campus culture…including the political aspects*.</p>

<p>If we’re discussing LAC-like universities like URochester, I’d also recommend adding Case Western Reserve University to the list. </p>

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<li>Not just the political orientation, but also the fact most students there are highly interested in openly discussing politics and getting into political debates with each other and anyone else who’ll listen.<br></li>
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<p>Kenyon’s not known around me for their STEM programs. Everyone I knew who went there were going for their humanities/social science programs…especially their renowned English lit program. </p>

<p>Don’t know about Grinnell’s STEM departments. However, considering their ranking and increasing popularity, any merit awards given are likely to be less considering they probably can draw more students with high stats.</p>

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<p>I am guessing you are right about Grinnell, cobrat–even though the school has very deep pockets. When my son and I visited there two years ago a significant number of families on our tour were from the east or west coasts–definitely more than we saw at other Midwestern schools.</p>

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<p>That sounds very much like Oberlin. Recalled most classmates there tended to come from the urban NE states like NY or Massachusetts or from the West Coast. Not as many from the Midwest with the notable exception of Chicago/Chicago area 'burbs and there were very few from the South and Southwest. </p>

<p>Interestingly, the few southern students I’ve met who attended my LAC were either from heavily urban areas or were trying to escape from heavily conservative hometowns/regions for political/personal reasons*. </p>

<p>I.e. Being GLBTQ.</p>

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<p>Finding a conservative midwestern LAC might be tricky. While St.OLaf is in Minnesota (a very liberal state) I know it has a more moderate student body than many of the others on your list.</p>

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<p>Warriordaughter, I am a parent and can answer general questions you may have about Centre or central Kentucky. I’ll let you know up front that I am a BIG fan. I went to Northwestern and my son is a freshman at one of the other competitive mid-western universities that people gush about on this site. He already regrets his decision not to go to Centre and is considering transferring. It’s not that he doesn’t like where he is currently, and he is doing very well academically. It’s just that he realizes that Centre offers what he really wants in a college experience at half the price. He wants to save his money for graduate school. I have always been a college snob and have preached, “go to the best college you can get into,” until I visited Centre. I was really taken by the school’s commitment to education. I was proud of my son for getting into highly selective universities (and I have to confess that I enjoy having the sticker on the back of my car), but I was heartbroken that he decided not to attend Centre. I sincerely believed, and still do, that where he is now will carry more prestige, but that he would get a better education at Centre. Centre completely changed my opinion of what college could be: an intellectual incubator. I’m sure you are familiar with the Centre Commitment, but it bears repeating: 1. Graduate in 4 years, 2. Study abroad, and, 3. Secure an internship or meaningful research project. Centre is really small and it is in a very small town, but the Centre Term, study abroad opportunities, internship possibilities, and very active campus help mitigate those factors. Families I know who have children at Centre say they almost never see their kids because they stay on campus. As for the political bent of the school, it has a reputation in the state for being liberal. But, remember, that’s by Kentucky standards, not California standards. My son is fiscally conservative (libertarian), very political, and is not concerned. If my son decides to make the switch, I know that he will leave college fluent in a foreign language, an excellent writer and reasoned thinker, and prepared for graduate school. Oh, and not broke. Finally, Centre was also ranked number one nationally, by the Alumni Factor, as having the happiest alums. Search Centre College Alumni Factor to see how Centre fares in outcome. It makes a compelling case. Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions. I’ll do my best to help you.</p>

<p>On another note, others have mentioned DePauw. It is definitely worth a look and has an honors program. DePauw offers fantastic merit aid and enjoys an absolutely beautiful campus. There is a real sense that the university plows money back into the facilities and campus maintenance. If you watch Special Report, both Bret Baier and Stephen Hayes went there.</p>

<p>Everyone I know who goes, or went, to either DePauw or Centre have nothing but positive things to say. Good luck with your college search and applications! And, remember, everyone has there opinions. Go with your gut and listen to the people who know you the best.</p>

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<p>pinkbulldog-- thanks for your perspective! I have also heard very good things about Centre (though it does not seem to be as intellectual/academic or geographically diverse as, say, Rhodes.) I will definitely be applying and crossing my fingers for $$$.</p>

<p>I am hesitant to add DePauw, although its honors program looks interesting… the website is vague on who gets how much merit aid and the 70% Greek figure is quite high. Plus I already have five merit matches and would like to spend any additional apps on merit safeties/reaches :)</p>

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<p>I know you have a specific list in mind but i would like to second (or third!) what several people have suggested- please take a good look at both University of Rochester and Case Western. They are both great schools very strong in your areas of interest and have very good research opportunities. Both also give good merit $$$.</p>

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<p>FYI, all but one of the biology majors who applied to medical school got in for the class of 1970.</p>

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<p>I wasn’t saying that Kenyon didn’t have good STEM programs…just that it wasn’t known for them in my area. </p>

<p>Incidentally, one can gain admission to medical school as a non-STEM major…such as my childhood pediatrician who got his MD degree after taking an undergrad major in History w/Pre-med concentration at Principia College.</p>

<p>His B.A. degree was prominently displayed in his office alongside his MD degree.</p>

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<p>Where is your area?
Apparently those students who majored in Biology knew Kenyon had a strong program.</p>

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This is not an obscure piece of information.</p>