Military veterans and college?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hi, got a few questions for you college knowledgeable people. </p>

<p>I am currently serving the last of six years in the US Air force and I am looking at my options on the outside. I may take a few nice job opportunities, but unless I see something ~70k a year or higher right out of the service I plan on getting a degree while I am still young. At most I plan on taking a year or two to do some contracting work in Iraq and elsewhere to put a little extra cash away(probably enough to significantly fund a doctorate), but other than that I expect to be in College in the next 3 years. </p>

<p>Of course there are some problems with my potential application. It will be well over 6 years since I graduated highschool by the time I apply at a University. Back in the day I couldn’t have cared less about my GPA since it was irrelevant to my future plans(plus I only needed half the credits my senior year to graduate…). Well, from what I have been reading on dozens of college websites, that attitude is going to bite me pretty hard.</p>

<p>I had about 10 months of tech school when I first came into the Air Force, so I have around 50-60 credits(telecommunications, electronics principles, etc) which will be little more than electives for the degree I have in mind. Leaning towards a Physics major with a Computer Science minor(or option, whatever the difference) since Physics has always interested me above and beyond any other subject. </p>

<li><p>Given my situation, will colleges in general still look back to my highschool days, or will they ignore that and use my more recent educational history in the Air Force(which is top of the class, even if the class(s) in question were only 15 people)? Also, given the fact that I already have ~50 credits, will that classify me as a transfer student even though they probably won’t even be used with my B.S.? </p></li>
<li><p>The Air Force is going to give me about $40k to go to college when I get out, does that count towards the EFC? Also, I made about $40k a year the past few years, does that count towards the EFC, especially since that money will stop as soon as I start school(I am assuming they take a % of that and use that for the EFC)? I did manage to save a rather decent portion of it, but I would rather use it for living expenses at the most, and not drain it all away paying for college if at all possible. </p></li>
<li><p>If I can pull high enough ACT/SAT scores what are the chances of getting into some of the top colleges? I was thinking Cal Tech, U. Chicago, NM, and maybe Stanford/Berkeley would be nice to get into if they both accepted me and paid a fair amount of the tuition costs… </p></li>
<li><p>Given the likelyhood that I will not be able to get into one of the top universities, whether for financial or GPA reasons, what are the top alternatives I have in public universities(with Physics/CS degrees)? I have looked at a few but I still need to do more research in this area… Also, since I am in the military I have a pretty good option of making any state my state of residence to drop the tuition costs to manageable levels… Original state being Missouri, I still have lots of family there but no real need to stick around. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>About all the time I have right now, I appreciate any answers and will try and check back tomorrow.</p>

2

<p>Quick question: What school is NM?</p>

3

<p>I'll give some of your questions a shot, though some of my answers will be a bit speculative. Email the admissions offices at some of the colleges you are interested in and ask how they evaluate older students. I will close with a little of my experience.
I'm sure your high school grades will count for less than they would have six years ago, but . . . did you take the kind of classes that would prepare you for a top school, especially a technical school? What have you done to make up for any holes or weaknesses? Top schools generally require SAT subject tests. How will you do on the math II test? Have you taken any college courses since you've been in the AF? I know that can be hard with deployments and moves. I think doing well in tech schools helps, but not a lot. I suspect that they focus more on how-to than on critical thinking and analysis. I recommend taking a calculus course and another course or two to help show that you will do well in college. Or plan on going to less selective school (one that you like) with the possibility of transferring after a year.
I doubt that the "top" schools will give you credit for your military courses. You can probably get some credit from some pretty good schools, but don't expect it to match very well with graduation requirements.
I encourage you to look at the calculator at the College Board web site to see how it addresses military benefits. I suspect the benefits won't count the first year but you will have to include them as untaxed income on the forms for subsequent years. Also, military benefits might offset other components of the aid package, like other outside assistance (hopefullly the loans). So, it won't affect the need calculation the first year but may offset part of the package. Email the financial aid office at a school you are interested in to find out for sure.
Your income will affect your EFC. If you made $40K, you should have been able to save some of it. Keep in mind you re-apply for financial aid each year. Your EFC will go down if your income goes down.</p>

<p>One way your military experience can help at a selective school is that it makes you a little unique. I think that is what got me into the law school I attended.<br>
Don't count on being able to change residency without living in the state before you apply. (It didn't work for me.) Isn't University of Missouri-Rolla supposed to be pretty good? Does Missouri have tuition reciprocity with any surrounding state, particularly Illinois? Where are you stationed?
The law school I attended wanted my parent's financial information even though I had been in the army for six years and was 27 years old when I applied. I don't think that is typical, but it happens.
Try to find out the median age of the student body at the schools you are interested in. Age diversity was definitely lacking at my law school. I did my third year as a visiting student at a more affordable school (for reasons unrelated to age diversity) and found more people like me. That doesn't matter a lot, but you probably won't feel as connected if you go to a college where everyone started right out of high school. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

4

<p>I believe if you're 22 or older, colleges don't ask for the SAT (probably figuring the life experience at this point weighs more significantly). I did three years at the Navy myself, and will probably be attending my local state-funded school where the $10,000 a year from the GI Bill goes a very long way.</p>

<p>By the way, don't worry about funding for a doctorate. If you're accepted to a PhD program, you're completely funded (usually for 4 or 5 years).</p>

<p>One more thing, amongst private schools I've heard Marlboro College is very catering of discharged veterans. Their small student population is well above the median age and they are generous with financial aid towards veterans. Another possibility is doing the general studies programs offered at such prestigious schools as Harvard, Columbia, NYU, etc. Of course, you'll forego the dorming experience and such but since I figure you'll be at least 24 years old by then, it shouldn't matter too much.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

5

<p>If you can get residency in Illinois, they cater to veterans VERY nicely, and UIUC is a very good school for physics.</p>

6

<p>Thanks for the replies. </p>

<p>I have looked at UIUC and it seems to be pretty solid. Unfortunately from what I know of Illinois veterans programs you need to reside in Illinois for 6 months prior to entering the service to get the full tuition payed deal(IVG). </p>

<p>I couldn't find anything at all on Missouri veterans benefits, so either google has failed me or they don't exist. I looked into Rolla and I will add it to my list of choices, but I am not sure I want to stay in state and Rolla seems to be a smaller college so I am not sure about that either. Need more info on the place. How about Mizzou? I hear that college is up in the ranks, though I don't know how their physics/CS area holds up... </p>

<p>Another college I have looked into is Temple(Penn State) and it seems to be pretty good. Anyone know anything about it? </p>

<p>As far as residency is concerned, shouldn't I be able to move into the state some months prior to enrollment to attain the resident classification for tuitions? I thought most states required not more than 30 days of residence to classify as a resident... </p>

<p>Also, what do you guys think... should I just pick a good public college, or would it be worth it to try and get into one of the top private colleges given the uphill battle I would likely have to face combined with the mountain of tuition costs? </p>

<p>I haven't taken any college classes since joining, mainly a CLEP test here or there. I don't really care about the college credits I already have, since I fully expect to start out as a freshman. I only wonder if that past experience will make up for my lack of interest in highschool. </p>

<p>As far as taking classes now, I don't know. I already work 10-12 hours a day and I have tried taking classes in the past, it just doesn't work out. My job is already stressful enough without adding a few hours of calculus a night on top of it. </p>

<p>Going to do some more research, see if I can make a list of 5-10 colleges while contacting admissions offices at the same time.</p>

7

<p>My brother served 6 years in the Navy straight out of high school and is now at the same college as me, Iowa State. He's in Mechanical Engineering. He also came in with a lot of credits from the technical schooling he did with the military, but most didn't even cover specific gen-ed courses. They're listed as credits on his transcript, and he has Senior privileges, but takes the same course sequence as freshmen. He'll be able to graduate in 3 years, but he's taking a full course load this summer too. I don't think they paid much attention to his high school stats because of how long he was in the military. He applied to places like Cornell U, Cal Tech, MIT, UIUC, Iowa State, and a few more, and got into all but Cal Tech. The difference in costs between what the military/GI Bill would pay and tuition has kept him here at ISU (funny...cost is the same reason I'm here). He also says that being older is NOT a problem socially. Most kids just don't care, or even know that he's 24 unless he tells them. He does live off-campus though so that limits some interaction but overall he enjoys being at school.</p>

8

<p>I am currently ending my six years in the Air Force as well, and I have already applied to several schools to include Georgetown, GWU, and UMD CP.</p>

<p>As far as applying as a transfer student, most schools require fifteen or more Semester Hours. The problem that you will run into is that your credits from tech school will not count due to the fact that military tech schools for the most part are not regionally accredited (highest level of accreditation.) If you are looking at most of the top schools, they will not even count those because they generally do not apply to any degrees offered at said school. (I ran into this problem three years ago while applying to UVM.)</p>

<p>On the upside schools do not want or need high school transcripts or SATs when you have been out of high school for more than 5 years. Where you do start running into problems, is that no matter how long you have been out of secondary school, they will want to see those transcripts if you do not have thirty SH or more of college class work. </p>

<p>Your best bet is to take some college classes, and suck up the loss in free-time. Because it is going to be EXTREMELY difficult to apply with the incoming freshman out of high school. The rise in applications and the drop in acceptance rates have effected all colleges across the board and are now more difficult to gain admission to. I work in the Civil Engineering squadron in one of the more demanding shops, 12+ hours a day. Over the past two years I have attended school taking as many as three classes per semester, for a total of 40 Semester Hours. I have a 4.0 gpa, work hard and am recognized as an achiever in my squadron. The reason that I sacrifice my free time is because, like you, I did not apply my self in high school. I know that in order to be competitive in the college admissions process it requires a lot more than just being an Iraq War veteran, a hero, and 24 years old. You really need to prove to the adcomm that not only are you all of these things but that you can also handle the academic rigors of a degree in physics.</p>

<p>Hope that helps,</p>

<p>v/r</p>

9

<p>Some sound advice. </p>

<p>So my best bet is to get 30 or more semester hours before I apply? Do cleps and dantes tests count, or is 30 hours of in class work needed? How many semester hours for an average in-class college course, 3-6? </p>

<p>If I got my CCAF before separating would that help my chances more than just getting a handful of classes by themselves? </p>

<p>I could perhaps take the summer after separation to get some classes under my belt, but that would push my entrance date back another year among other things... </p>

<p>I think the biggest obstacle standing in my path is an upcoming deployment either in September or in January before I separate. While I can possibly take classes over there, it is going to depend on my work environment/location how much time I can devote to school work. Maybe I get lucky and spend 6 months in Qatar or Djibouti, but more likely in Iraq pulling TCN duty....</p>

<p>I wonder if the best option would be to apply to my local hometown University(Missouri Southern State University) and transfer somewhere else as a Sophomore. I will see if I can pull enough credit hours so I don't have to do that though.</p>

10

<p>I would try to get as many classes under your belt as you can, the class work is really what they are going to look hardest at. As far as the CLEP's go, they are good for getting credits here and there but they really don't shine any light on how you will perform in any university your are applying to. Also if you CLEP too much you wont have a good base of knowledge for your upper level classes.</p>

<p>Your CCAF can't hurt so I say go for it...I am taking two CLEP's to finish mine before I get out, but the CLEP's are not in my Major area so I am not worried about taking the upper level classes that follow. </p>

<p>I would suggest trying to take as many classes that you can while you are in, especially since they are all free...then if you still don't feel that you have a good base to apply on, take a semester or two at a CC and plan on transferring to a 4 year down the road.</p>

11

<p>i was reading over this post and thought i may be able to lend some insight, at least a little. i've been out since 2001. didn't take the SAT or ACT. started college at a small community college Winter 2003 (4.0 gpa). Tranferred right Fall 2003 to a private catholic college (3.7 gpa). Fall 2005 i transferred again to Northwestern University & am graduating in 6 weeks (3.5 gpa) with a degree in economics and creative writing (nonfiction).</p>

<p>the engineering programs here are quite good. i'm in the economics program, which is one of the best nationally (8th) - medill school of journalism is top 3, as is the film program, music program, theater program, and a few others. the Kellogg MBA program is also usually in the top 5 nationally - i would really suggest going the traditional route regarding your degree. i know there are a lot of Bachelor of General Studies degrees out there, but i have no idea how that will affect getting into a grad program, regardless of the confering university.</p>

<p>it's on a quarter system, so the classes cover almost a regular semester's amount of information in 12 weeks. the pace is very fast and the school is also rather competitive. both U of Chicago and Northwestern are similar in that way, though Northwestern students have more of a "personable" reputation. </p>

<p>i personally am on the Ch 31 Voc Rehab program through the VA. it is a little known fact that the VA will pay for you to attend anywhere, should you get in - should there be no similar offerings at nearby state schools. so i started under some obscure program that is only offered at private type schools and then switched to economics. that's how i was able to get the VA to pay for my entire tuition and books (over $33k per year) plus a stipend. my disability rating is 20% for a lower back injury. i ended up getting a ton of money from scholarships and grants, as well. had i stayed active duty and not gone to school, i would have made the same amount of money as the government paid for my education - calculate 5 years at E5 & E6 pay... including living allowances. </p>

<p>if you want to get into a top school, skip the CLEP's. they won't count. in fact, most transfer credits won't count, depending on the school you're coming from. all of mine transferred, which is really rare, but i went to a good college before i transferred. the avg incoming SAT this year at my school was 1450 - and the classes are geared up to challenge even the smartest kids, who tend to come from elite prep schools.</p>

<p>but, being a vet, you will work much harder than they will, and have no problem competing... but the learning curve is rather steep for the first year. </p>

<p>however, the job opportunities after graduation are amazing. i interviewed with industry leaders in investment banking, consulting and risk management - like Goldman Sachs and Boston Consulting Group. and really, it's all about where you can find work after you graduate. in addition, getting into top MBA programs or grad schools not a problem, assuming you score well on the GMAT and/or GRE.</p>

12

<p>Congrats Blk! You have done very well for yourself, you do not normally see so much ambition from people departing the military these days.</p>

<p>As far as the voc rehab I am actually trying for that right now...but it will be a while, and they are confident that I can also get part of med school paid for after finishing up with the rest of my under-grad. I just found out that I am being offered admission to GW and am waiting to find out if I will get the same offering from Georgetown. Good luck to you</p>

13

<p>that's great news, af_transfer. i remember all the old master sergeants complaining about the idea of us younger troops getting out. they'd try to scare us into thinking we were only good for turning wrenches or flipping burgers.</p>

<p>i personally came from the lowest socioeconomic class growing up (< $30k) and was constantly getting "could do better" on my report cards since first grade. i graduated from high school at the 50th percentile - definitely nothing worth bragging about there. </p>

<p>last week i did a side by side comparison of what i would make and did make from being 20 yrs old to 60. one side i stay enlisted and retire as a master master sergeant at 40 yrs old - i know, a conservative assumption. then i added in retirement plus my assumed career from age 40 to 60. the other column was of me doing my first tour plus the extention (i was in for 5 years), and then getting out and getting my degree. then from age thirty comparing the two respective career tracks. </p>

<p>over the next 10 years, i will outstrip my former career track by $700k. from 40, the amount increases exponentially, and the "retirement" pay from the VA doesn't offset that fact. i do not know the career options for retirees, but i assumed i would have ended up in a federal job somewhere, since i would have had, at best, a degree from the CCAF and maybe a bachelors from one of those satelite schools. anyway, the difference at 60 years old comes to $3 million. this all assumes that things remain the same from right now until 30 years from now. obviously that will not be the case, but the analysis helped me compare the current value of the options that i have had, and the results of the choices that i have made.</p>

<p>so if anyone has smart friends who are "afraid" to get out because of the propaganda they preach to scare us into reenlisting, tell your buddies to take the chance and make choices free of fear. many top firms LOVED the enlisted story i was able to give them during recruiting season. and i was a comm/nav specialist working on planes - had nothing to do with risk management or investment banking - but the interpersonal skills and discipline i developed while enlisted made me very marketable. </p>

<p>ok, my buddy said to get off my soap box:)</p>

14

<p>That makes me a lot more comfortable with my decision, and very insightful of you to do a side by side comparison. I know that by having been prior enlisted will from now on give me a jump on other students who just went straight to College from High School. If not in experience, just by the amazing stories I have and the places I have been, all before the age of 25.</p>