<p>For me academics and musical theatre are equal. I have the grades to get into a top 25 school and I'd really like the Double Major/Minor in Musical Theatre (it really depends on the school, some don't allow double majoring). With that, since top 25 schools are all clearly academically competitive, where I would ultimately chose would be based on the prestige of their theatre program. Right now I'm looking at applying to:
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Stanford
Columbia
UofW in St. Louis
Georgetown
UofPenn
Cornell
Brown
UCBerkley
UCLA
NYU
UofChicago
Which of these schools has the best theatre program, and which allow double majoring vs. minoring in musical theatre/theatre. Thank you! :)</p>
<p>Best theater program of those you listed? Easy. UCLA. But the program is so intensive, I don’t know about double majoring. Chrissyblu can help you with anything UCLA.</p>
<p>I’m gonna suggest you add Northwestern to your list. Very selective school, very prestigious theater program. I don’t know enough to address double majoring or minoring.</p>
<p>My Northwestern Theatre tour guide was a double major Theatre (MT certificate) and Engineering.</p>
<p>NYU also has a very good and quite selective theatre program. Double majoring there is difficult, but not impossible, I believe, and having a lot of IB/AP credits helps a fair amount, I think.</p>
<p>Columbia’s theatre program is through Barnard, and apparently they just poached someone from Michigan, which is another one of the top MT schools in the country. I don’t know about double majors there. I can’t imagine it would be very easy, though.</p>
<p>I’d also recommend looking at USC. It’s academic profile is seriously rising, and the BA theatre program with the MT minor offers a fair amount of flexibility for a second major, especially with a lot of AP/IB credits. They’re also far more generous with giving college credit for those exams than other schools like Columbia will be.</p>
<p>It is important for you to distinguish between academically strong schools that have good theatre programs and those that have good musical theatre programs. Some of the schools on your list have the former but not the latter. It is also important to distinguish between BA programs that readily have the flexibility to double major and BFA programs, many of which do not. You may want to pose your question on the musical theater forum which is listed as a separate major in the list of college majors. Lots of discussion there about combining top flight academics with excellent musical theater training. [Musical</a> Theater Major - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/]Musical”>Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums)</p>
<p>I must say that the original post saddens me. It sounds like the OP is strictly looking for brand name cachet (i.e. prestige) – instead of trying to find the best fit. First of all you should realize that having “the grades to get into a top 25 school” isn’t the same as getting into a top 25 school. In other words, each top 25 school rejects thousands of qualified applicants. Most of the schools on your list should be considered a reach for anyone. As an example, the total number of freshmen at all of the Ivies combined is about 14,000. The total number of Valedictorians at U.S. High Schools is over 40,000 (not to mention international applicants). The Ivies could fill their classes with just Valedictorians and two out of every three Valedictorians would have to look elsewhere. I suspect you aren’t receiving good counseling about developing a realistic list of schools.</p>
<p>My advice would be to take a look at the things that really matter to you (e.g. size, geography, setting, curriculum, social environment, etc.) – then pick some schools where your academic credentials place you in the top 25% of the entering class – this would greatly enhance your chances of acceptance (and perhaps merit aid or grants – for those schools that offer that type of aid). Right now your list lacks balance and would put you at risk of getting quite a few thin envelopes. There are no shortcuts to developing a good list of schools – you need to do extensive research and visit the schools in person (if feasible). Good luck.</p>
<p>Agree with post #4, but here are some old threads that might get you started:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/102192-good-colleges-non-major-strong-mt-interest.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/102192-good-colleges-non-major-strong-mt-interest.html?</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/60317-some-ba-programs-any-mt-strength.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/60317-some-ba-programs-any-mt-strength.html?</a></p>
<p>regarding Cornell:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/43729-cornell-theater.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/43729-cornell-theater.html?</a></p>
<p>On thing I recall from D2s search several years ago was that Williams had recently built some big Performing Arts complex, and Princeton had received some huge donation to bolster their performing arts programs. That’s all I recall.</p>
<p>I should add that the concept of top 25 schools is silly (i.e. top 25 for whom)? But it is doubly silly as regards theatre programs. As an example, USN&WR doesn’t have NYU ranked among the top 25 national universities… Let’s see how long it takes Soozie to respond to that… Again, do your research – which will become more specialized since you’re considering musical theatre programs…</p>
<p>WellMeaningDad:
As far as my responding to the point about NYU’s ranking…to be honest with you, I have no clue where NYU ranks. I never pay attention to rankings. My two kids did not pay attention to rankings. My kids attended two schools on the OP’s list: Brown and NYU and neither could have told you where those schools ranked when they were a college applicant, nor now that they are a college graduate. </p>
<p>Back to the OP:
The way you are going about picking colleges is not a good way in my opinion, let alone I have trouble relating to it. It seems that your number one selection criteria is prestige of the college and not much else. In fact, you seem to even know what you want to major in and haven’t even bothered to look into if these prestigious colleges even offer a MT major (you only asked about double majors and minors). And your member name, too, sorta says it all “Harvard Hopeful”. </p>
<p>For someone as bright as you, I would have expected you to at least do the most preliminary research before posing the question about minors and double majors. Ya see, hardly any schools on that list offer any kind of degree in musical theater. NYU has a BFA in MT and UCLA has a BA in MT by audition. For one thing, do you even know the difference between a BFA and a BA? Because it appears you want a BA (not sure you know the difference though) and if you truly want a BA (well, we at least know you desire one of the top ranked colleges in the land and those are all BAs), why would you consider NYU which is a BFA and is really nothing like doing a BA. It is also admissions via audition. UCLA, while a BA, has an audition to get admitted, and their BA program correlates in many ways with a BFA one and is not like a typical BA program. </p>
<p>So, if you truly want to MAJOR in MT or even MINOR in MT, you’d have to scrap that entire list except NYU and UCLA. </p>
<p>If you want a BA, it is pretty unusual that you would not have Northwestern on your list as an academically selective college that has a MT Certificate by audition after the first year, and otherwise a strong BA in Theater program. Also USC has a strong theater program with a MT Minor which is not all that common. </p>
<p>Now, if you care MORE about the prestige of the university than the programs/majors it offers (I get that impression from your post), then you have to realize that you need to look beyond the major/department because at SOME very selective BA schools, the strength of theater and even MT lie outside the academic offerings, but are very very strong in the extracurricular offerings. What comes to my mind in this way on your list are Yale and Brown. Harvard doesn’t have a Theater major per se. But there is a lot of theater going on campus (not sure on the MT end of it). </p>
<p>Now, if you choose colleges the way I think you SHOULD choose them, with a list of selection criteria and IF having a major in theater or MT is important to you, then you start with finding schools that fit that, rather than starting with the rankings. Some of the best theater programs in the country are NOT located within the top 25 ranked colleges. Just so you know. </p>
<p>By the way, while I don’t know your entire profile academically (along with the rest), no matter how outstanding you are as a student, your current college list lacks safety schools. All those schools have chancy odds for even the best students in the land.</p>
<p>Soozie – just to clarify, I only mentioned you because I felt that you would agree with me that rankings are silly (especially ones that exclude NYU from the top 25)…</p>
<p>^^Oh, I get it now, thanks.</p>
<p>You guys are giving OP good advice, but maybe overreacting a little IMO to the original post. As I see it, OP has 8 months to compile a list, everyone has to start someplace and these were some preliminary thoughts. Which OP bravely teed up to get feedback. The list, and the process, will no doubt be amended over the course of the next 8 months, as OP learns more and also maybe listens to people such as people here. Unlikely first thoughts would be perfect, but lots of time to get straight and do it better. This is the start. Not the end. So advice good, criticism not needed or helpful IMO.</p>
<p>It is true that this is only his/her junior year and it is the early stage of the college selection process. However, I have not only gone through this with my own two kids, but with many others as a college advisor. The first step in creating even a highly temporary LONG list of colleges, is to have some selection criteria and go from there. So, for instance, this kid apparently wants to major, double major, or minor in MT. That is one selection criteria, its seems. One would think, then, that in compiling an initial list, one would look up if the schools even offer a major or minor in MT. One may not know how good the programs are and then come here to explore deeper. </p>
<p>However, it appears the OP compiled a list of colleges from USNEWS and World Report. But then he/she says he/she wants to major in MT and the question posed was even more specific asking about double majors and minors. First, I would think a student would look up if the college even offers MT at all. </p>
<p>I know my own kids had a list of what they wanted in a college and started a preliminary too long list based on schools that met that basic criteria. They did not go by rankings. Both were excellent students as well. Yes, they wanted selective colleges. Yes, they wanted challenging academics. One was contemplating getting a liberal arts degree with an architecture major (not a BArch) and so eliminated schools that had no offerings in that field. For example, Brown has a BA in Architectural Studies but Harvard doesn’t. She wanted other things in a college…certain size and location. She wanted the school to have either a varsity or club alpine ski team. And so on. Other kid wanted a BFA in MT, ideally in a setting that was more selective academically. While she may have had the stats to get into a school like Brown, it doesn’t offer a BFA in MT, and so on. </p>
<p>Using the college rankings as the first criteria in college selection is just, well, not something I think works well. </p>
<p>And at a minimum, a very strong student who says they want to study MT in college, would at least have gone down the list of prestigious schools to see who offers it at all before posing the more specific question of double majors or minors. It seems very basic to me. But then again, it comes across that prestige trumps all in this instance. Just saying. </p>
<p>The student obviously wants to go to Harvard…thus the name “Harvard Hopeful” and why does he/she want to go to Harvard? Did he/she even look up and see that Harvard doesn’t have a MT major or minor? It doesn’t even have a THEATER major, but does offer theater and has strong extracurricular theater. That’s all good, but doesn’t seem to fit what OP says he/she wants…a major, minor, or double major in MT. How badly can one want Harvard to not even look up what majors it offers? Well, I guess it IS Harvard and that trumps all? (nothing against Harvard…I went there myself!) But then again, OP says she/he wants to study MT in college, so it sounds like that DOES matter to him/her.</p>
<p>To the OP, I 'm curious as to what criteria you used in selecting this preliminary list. Did you check on what academic programs they offer already?</p>
<p>You seem to mention that you picked by top 25 rankings. I’m curious how some schools in the top 25 were chosen but others were not. I just looked up the top 25 schools (I rarely pay attention to rankings). I see that Northwestern is ranked 12th. How did that school not land on the list when it is not only a top theater program, but has a MT program whereas most top 25 schools do not? How come Emory was not chosen? They have a well regarded theater program. Emory is ranked 17 of National Universities. </p>
<p>I can’t tell if you understand the difference between a BFA and a BA (do you?) but you have NYU on the list which is not a top 25 university, but has a BFA (one of the top BFA programs, however!), but don’t have Carnegie Mellon which is ranked 22nd in National Universities and is a top MT program (an “Ivy” of the BFA in MT programs). What got you to pick NYU if not ranked in the top 25 but CMU is? </p>
<p>If you wish to go by rankings rather than whether the school offers MT or whether it has a BFA or BA or how well regarded the theater programs are compared to the reputation of the overall university, you’ve got NYU ranked at 32, but omit USC at 26 (excellent in theater and has MT minor), UMich at 27 (one of the BFA in MT elites), Tufts at 28 which has a well regarded theater program, UNC-Chapel Hill at 28, another well regarded theater program, and Brandeis at 31 which is well regarded for theater and also has a MT track within the theater major. </p>
<p>And then, what about LACs? If you are into rankings, why not Swarthmore? It’s ranked number one (even has solid theater). Middlebury is strong in theater and the school is ranked 4th. Vassar and Wesleyan are strong in theater and ranked 11th and 13th.</p>
<p>You also seem to be into the Ivy League. Why didn’t you pick Cornell? It is considered strong in theater. More so, then say, Penn, which made your list.</p>
<p>I personally would not select schools based on rankings. But since that seems like your FIRST criteria, I am curious how you landed on these particular schools and omitted the others. Thanks.</p>
<p>I agree with monydad – let’s just give the OP a trophy for participating in CC… But seriously, I think the issue is that the OP started with a flawed premise (i.e. that having the grades to get into a school = getting in) and then proceeded to compound the error by asking a question about Musical Theatre which Soozie correctly pointed out was irrelevant based on the schools listed… Yes, the OP is a high school student, but evidently one with high hopes based on the chosen CC name (i.e. Harvard_Hopeful) and preliminary list of schools. As Soozie pointed out, perhaps the OP should do a scant bit of research which would have answered the OP’s question and radically changed the list of intended schools… In other words, it’s counterintuitive for someone to claim that they have the academic credentials to get into the most selective of colleges and then ask questions which reveal that they’ve put such little thought into the process… Just my opinion, of course… Let’s hope the OP takes the good advice in the spirit intended (i.e. to take a thoughtful approach to developing robust selection criteria and try to find schools that seem like the best fit). Again, best of luck in developing an appropriate list of schools.</p>
<p>As a college counselor, OP, and if you were my student, I’d have you develop a list of selection criteria. Then, once you researched schools (and I’d also suggest ones to you), I’d have you jot down certain things about each school on a chart (example, their theater offerings), as well as list your impressions and pros/cons for each school on your preliminary list, and how each one meets your selection criteria. So, since you already seem to have a preliminary list, I suggest listing (maybe sharing here?) your pros/cons for the schools on your list or why each one has landed on your preliminary tentative “longer” list. If we knew why each college appealed to you, we could guide you better. </p>
<p>I agree with WellMeaningDad, that we might expect you to do a little bit first on your own and then come here with questions and we are happy to help. It is hard to know what you have done so far on your own to come up with this list, given your stated interest in MT but your list seemingly to have been created solely on rankings.</p>
<p>HH:
Having read now some other posts of yours on CC, I have some friendly advice. I honestly don’t know your ENTIRE profile…I don’t know the rigor of your junior year curriculum. I don’t know lots of things about you. And it is still early and mid junior year. However, based on your first sitting of the SAT, (glad to hear you are prepping and could very well bring this score up in the next 7 months), you would have to improve your score exponentially to be considered by the majority of schools you have on your list. Even students with MUCH MUCH higher scores than you, and more accelerated and challenging courses, still get rejected at the schools on your list. Right now, I am feeling unsure about you even being in the ballpark for those schools and do not feel you are being realistic or understanding the long odds at such schools even for kids with much stronger stats than you. So, this would be a concern for me. </p>
<p>I also read where you said you have been doing theater for ten years (that’s great as it shows a committed area!), and have been in 100 shows so far. Now, I am curious. I am a parent of a kid who has been in musicals since she was four (started with a professional one actually). She applied to college at age 16, and I believe by then she was in approximately 50 shows so far, and was always in at least one show at any given moment in time. I honestly do not know how you would have accrued 100 shows in ten years, which means an average of ten productions per year, and that even means ten productions per year when you were 6 or 7 years old. Most productions of the school type or community theater type, involve at least two months commitment per show. Would love to hear more about this.</p>
<p>this is gonna be a pretty random post…shouldn’t this be in the MT forum?</p>
<p>Last April I was poking around on CC and stumbled upon some rejected/accepted threads for Harvard, Yale and Princeton. Very interesting reading. The students announced their results dramatically, using large, colored fonts.</p>
<p>Looking at the stats for those who were rejected by those schools, it became clear to me that these days there is only one way a person could be truly confident about having a good chance at acceptance to one of the most highly selective institutions. </p>
<p>In addition to an absolutely stellar high school record and test scores, etc, they would have to have done things that demonstrated extraordinary initiative and discipline…such as starting a large, wildly successful business on their own, having a research paper published in a prestigious academic journal…maybe winning an Olympic gold medal!!</p>
<p>Of course, many who have not done such things <em>are</em> admitted…but they really sweat it out.</p>
<p>In the old days, it wasn’t so extraordinarily hard to get into certain schools. At some point, things changed.</p>
<p>Acceptance into auditioned musical theatre programs is remarkably difficult also. Many people have posted here about realizing this too late and ending up taking a gap year or auditioning again for admittance as a transfer. </p>
<p>It’s good that the original poster is learning about certain “harsh realities” now.</p>
<p>H_H, I can understand your desire to combine a strong theater program with strong academics. My daughter who is also a Junior has similar desires (straight acting, not musical theater). I can share with you a bit about our thinking at this point and maybe that will be helpful.</p>
<p>She is not sure yet whether she wants a conservatory type of education (mostly BFA)or a liberal arts education (mostly BA) so for now we are exploring a range of options. And in the end, she may wind up applying to both because audition programs are even more competitive than some of the other schools she is looking at. (On your list you have several schools that have auditions in addition to academic acceptance, including NYU and UCLA). And because she may not really be ready to chose between a conservatory and a BA until she really has a choice before her next spring (I hope!!)</p>
<p>We are trying to schedule some visits to both kinds of programs so she gets a sense of what they are like. So for example, she visited DePaul and Northwestern in Chicago. And we are going to visit Purchase and Vassar, NYU and Barnard. These are all different schools with different strengths and programs and I am hoping visiting them will give her some idea of where she sees herself. Of course, not everyone can make these kinds of visits. The next best thing would be immersing yourself in their website, seeking out current students or alumni and asking questions. If you could at least visit a school of each type to get a sense of the difference between the two I think it would be very helpful.</p>
<p>She is also going to develop a safety or two. And by safety I mean a non-audition program in a school she is almost certain to get into because she falls above their mid-range on stats. We are also going to look at financial safeties, schools that are likely to offer her merit aid. And most importantly, I want every one of the schools she applies to to be one she would be happy going to. Not to much to ask is it? ;-)</p>
<p>When I write all that it sounds complicated! But starting now should help you to make a plan and follow it. Its great that you have that passion for both theater and learning!</p>
<p>Hope this helps and good luck!</p>
<p>Ok. Let me interject. I guess I should have been clearer when posting my list. First and foremost I intend to major in Political Science. I’ve wanted to be a lawyer since I was 6 and I’ve never wavered in what I want to do with my life. My list is compiled based on the best way to get myself into law school (for example, Harvard has an 88% acceptance rate for undergrad students applying to Law School). With that, I’ve been doing MT since I was 4. It’s equally as important to me as academics, but no, MT is not what is influencing my college list. This list is based on the schools that have strong Political Science programs and schools of which hold the prestige to get me into Harvard Law (which, yes is where I aim to go eventually)…In terms of “fit”…I’ve visited all the schools, they are all a fit, that is not a concern. </p>
<p>My main point is this, based on my preliminary list, what schools on my list have good/great musical theatre programs. I want to have some sort of degree for MT, I don’t care what kind of degree (meaning BFA vs. BA vs. minoring), I just want to be involved in a legitimate musical theatre program in college.</p>
<p>And lastly, monydad nailed it on the head. This IS my starting point. I am starting my research here. So please don’t criticize me for not having done the proper research because I am just getting started. But that college list…it’s not changing. It’s based on Political Science major, and from there I want to work with MT.</p>
<p>I hated Northwestern when I went there, it’s not my “fit” per se, and Cornell is on my list soozievt.</p>
<p>(and in terms of safes, my safes are the lower ranked UCs. The app to UCs allows you to send one app to all the schools, so UCSD, UCD, and UCSB are my safes).</p>