Money/Finances - How to Pay for all of This

<p>My child is at Hartt. They does not provide any need or merit based scholarship. The only money you can hope to get, and it is rare for MT, is a talent scholarship which is decided AT your child’s audition. Mostly goes to boys, but some girls are lucky to get $$.</p>

<p>^^^I assume you must know something specific to MT majors then because the Hartt website says 86% of incoming freshman receive some sort of merit (talent) scholarship awarded based on the audition. Wouldn’t a Hartt MT student also be eligible for financial aid grants through U of Hartford like any other student if there was financial need? Interesting.</p>

<p>I agree with everything said above about the benefits of avoiding loans for MT training, plus the value of high ACT/SAT scores and top grades in securing merit money at all but the most selective schools (which often meet 100% of demonstrated financial need yet offer virtually no merit money) and/or for opening the doors of the most academically-selective schools if they are what interest you.</p>

<p>Our family also considered it very important to weigh the probable shelf-life of various degrees (versus a short-term audition boost post graduation) – plus options for obtaining a double major in four years – when evaluating the relative value of the education (our D wanted more than just vocational training from her college years) offered by various schools. We also considered the fact that in addition to money, one invests four prime years of life in a college education.</p>

<p>All of this led our D to choose her most expensive option, but when everything was considered we all considered it to be the best value overall and could not be happier with her choice two years in.</p>

<p>Two years ago at Hartt when we were hosted to an individual tour through the theater and dance department by the department chair’s head assistant, it was explained to us that the University gives a total amount of scholarship money to each university department, and it is up to that department to use it as it wishes; ie. academic merit, financial need, talent, etc. The MT department had decided to use the entire amount to ‘win over’ those students they deemed the most likely to be sought after by other MT schools, usually boys. The University does NOT provide any other financial assistance outside of that already awarded to the MT department. At the time my daughter was accepted to MT at Hartt, she was awarded combined merit/talent/financial need scholarships that equaled over 1/3 of the cost at NYU Steinhardt and an amount at UArts that made the 2 colleges equal in cost. She was awarded NOTHING at Hartt, which made it more expensive than NYU! Needless to say, it fell off the list very quickly . . . .</p>

<p>I’ll use the “interesting” word again. I continue to learn from reading though my next kid at bat is not going down the theatre track. (There is no equivalent thread to read for a student that will likely be undeclared and a school list still TBD so I’m reading this one until we’ve got a list.</p>

<p>I thought that most schools actually administer grant awards but I assumed they couldn’t decide what goes to need vs. Merit as far as federal aid goes. Sounds like that is wrong.</p>

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<p>I think you’re still a bit confused. Federal Aid is an entitlement program and comprised of ONLY Pell grants which are for low income and on a sliding scale from 0 EFC (expected family contribution) receiving the full Pell ($5500) to lower amounts as EFC rises, AND the subsidized and unsubsidized student loans. Anyone who completes the FAFSA is eligible for unsubsidized student loans (at the minimum) and subsidized loans and Pell grant (if eligible). The only exception would be schools which do not participate in the federal student aid programs. </p>

<p>All other money either comes from the university endowment, which each school decides whether to administer as merit, talent, or need based or a combination. The information is usually available on the school website (sometimes requires some digging). In addition, each school is required to have a Net Price Calculator available, which should give at least an estimation of a financial aid package that may be awarded. These, of course, would not included talent awards. These NPC are relatively new as a requirement and some schools are more accurate than others. They do seem to work best for families with more straight forward income tax situations (wages reported on W2) and without noncustodial parents or step parents involved. Families with small businesses, partnerships, rental properties have been reporting less accurate NPC estimations. YMMV
For more information on FA and merit aid, I recommend visiting the Financial Aid forum on this website where there are posters with a wealth of experience and knowledge to share.</p>

<p>Forgot to add above that some states have state specific programs i.e NY’s TAP, CA Blue and Gold which have their own specific either merit or need requirements. Private outside scholarships can also have their own eligibility (need or merit or both). However, many schools simply use outside scholarships to “meet need” and do not apply them to the family’s expected contribution.</p>

<p>My son got loads of “talent” and “auditon” awards. The most was for $5K but it was for a top cost private. So … I can’t remember what Harrt offered, but it was less than that, and you all know what it costs there. They gave us a big thing on financial aid includiing CT state loan options available to parents if the student goes to school in that state even if you do not live there. </p>

<p>As for financial aid, that goes through the main financial aid of the university, and is determined by need. Those schools that are FAFSA only do not tend to meet EFC so don’t count on that. PROFILE schools may guarantee to meet full need, but they define it differently and you need ot fill out the CSS PROFILE as well. Some schools do give merit money for SAT/grades as well as for audition/talent, and some schools have specific performing arts scholarships with and without the need component. It all comes down the the specific school, but yes, most of them, other than pure conservatory schools will look at test scores and grades. For admissions as well as for merit money. Michigan will do a perusal to see if you even get an audition based on your academic profile. </p>

<p>The bottom line for us was the best deal was our state university which fortunately did have a true BFA MT program with three strong componts for dance, drama and voice, and the sticker price was low, plus he got an auto academic scholarship for a few grand plus a perfoming arts award for a piece. Altogether it made it a very good deal and the lowest cost. That it had cheap off campus housing available which he took advantage of after a year or two reduced costs further. So that is something to consider too. You aren’t gonna live cheap in some cities whereas in others there inexpensive housing is plentiful, close and available . Makes a big difference in the overall cost.</p>

<p>@Momcares</p>

<p>Really?!?!</p>

<p>It’s great that your daughter is smart enough to have gotten into Northwestern and that she is so focused on academics in addition to studying for a BA theatre, and yes, NU is great for both; but please stop trying to take away from what our BFA kids are doing with their college years!!! It’s very unbecoming…</p>

<p>@do-what-u-love - That is NEVER my intention and I’m very sorry if it sounded that way! </p>

<p>Our D was very interested in many BFA programs and has many VERY smart friends who are loving theirs, plus many are enjoying great success post-graduation. I only meant to offer the perspective that there are different ways families evaluate the value of degrees that lead some to opt to spend more than others would ever consider worthwhile, and also to (as is usual with my posts) remind people that BFAs aren’t the only viable road to a successful career in MT.</p>

<p>As I’ve said, I attended an acting conservatory and found great value in that training.</p>

<p>Edit: I think I just realized the problem. I’m guessing the term “vocational training” carries a negative connotation for you (and maybe for others), which it doesn’t AT ALL for me. I need to find less loaded words… maybe referring to a BFA as a “professional degree” is more to the point?</p>

<p>bhmomma, thanks for the detailed clarification! Very helpful. I was indeed confused. :-)</p>

<p>If your income is about $200K, you will probably not receive financial aid from many institutions. You may receive talent or merit aid that is not income based, but you need to carefully research that.</p>

<p>Understand that when someone says that they got merit and/ or talent awards while still qualifying for financial aid, it does not mean that someone WITHOUT financial need would qualify for those same talent or merit awards.</p>

<p>Christie 2 stated that her D got a combination of merit (academic)/ talent and financial aid from NYU Steinhardt totally 1/3 the cost. The money her D rec’d was based on her grades, talent and need.</p>

<p>D was in the same program, but we did not qualify for any financial aid. The program head originally thought he could award D academic merit aid (non-need) due to her high grades, but in the end, NYU’s policy had changed and the academic award could only go to a student qualifying for some need. (He was trying to give academic merit aid (non-need) to students with higher grades and talent awards to those without these kind of high grades.)</p>

<p>So in the end, the program head was able to award D talent merit aid, but that was after appealing to his higher ups since the non-need merit talent money had already been awarded to others.</p>

<p>tNote that non-need talent money is more in the $5K to $10K range at NYU these days (no where near 1/3 the cost), so keep that in mind when applying. Also it is only available to RD students, not ED.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>This thread and the “Advice for HS Juniors…” thread very helpful. Thx to all.</p>

<p>Fast forwarding five months with an update. Son took a nine-hour prep course offered through his high school and did a little bit individual prep. and scored a 30 on his ACT. We’re very excited/proud. He says he’ll hit the books again in late-August for the Sept. 21 test date. This is a good spot to also reiterate that his weighted GPA is 4.0, he’ll have five AP classes under his belt after being graduated, and the district/school is considered academically strong. </p>

<p>He currently has a list of twenty schools which he wants to consider auditioning for this fall/winter. Part of what we’ll do this summer is to start to pare down this list to 12 – 15 schools and start the logistical/budgetary planning of these auditions and (hopefully) follow-up visits in the spring. Given that we – the parents – are still in the mindset that the all-in cost has to be the same as his in-state option which is $25K per year, merit aid will be a material factor in considering out-of-state and private schools. </p>

<p>I am going to make the assumption that material merit aid will only come from institutions in which his 30 puts him into the top quartile of the incoming freshman class. Under my “top quartile” logic the last schools for which he should audition are: UMich (33<em>), CMU (34</em>), and NYU (33*). Of course, these are the schools he not only wants to audition for but would like to take it a step further and audition on-campus (vs. Unifieds) in the (false?) hope that that will increase his chances of acceptance. Telling him “forgetaboutit” is going to be a blow.</p>

<p>Is my “top quartile” logic sound? Even if he bumped his ACT to 32 under this logic we’d still be telling him to skip the Big Three in Chicago. This is not the best motivation to get him to study more late this summer. Is there another financial matrix I should be using to prioritize his audition list? I have access to U.S. News’ College Compass database, but a great many of the financial aid figures appear to be based on need rather than merit. Finally, is our expectation of keeping all-in costs to $25K per year reasonable for OOS/private schools or do we need to push our budget to $30K? On this last question ultimately the proof will be in the pudding, though I enjoy receiving everyone’s prognostications/experiences.</p>

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<p>*ACT (or SAT-equivalent) score at the bottom of the top quartile of the 2011 incoming freshman class (i.e., the top quartile starts here)</p>

<p>CMU doesn’t necessarily care about gpa or ACT. That 34 is probably for science majors. D’s friend was admitted with ACT in low 20’s and very low GPA. So don’t strike it based on that. The $$ may be another issue…</p>

<p>Same thing with NYU, those ACT/SAT numbers are not all that relevant to MT kids. My girlfriends daughter had a low SAT score and very low GPA and she just finished her Freshman year at NYU. Also, don’t know about the money aspect.</p>

<p>To echo what Merlehay and amtc said, if CMU’s drama/MT programs had to go by the same academic standards as their engineering school, almost none of their students would meet the criteria. That’s not to say they do not have some bright kids, but it would be unreasonable and it would shrink their pool of potential students to next to none. However, I think it would be kind of fun if they made their potential engineering kids come in and do a classical monologue or sing.</p>

<p>Your formula about who gets merit aid is logical in the sense that money will be awarded to those who are at the top. The issue is that many schools award money based on either academics OR talent. So you can use test scores and gpa to determine your academics, but there isn’t any formula to determine a student’s rank in terms of talent. Plus even when tests or gpa are used, are an applicant’s grades compared to the entire school’s applicant pool or just the MT department’s applicant pool? In general, though, fewer and fewer privates offer merit aid, and when they do they tend to be talent based. </p>

<p>Also the criteria used for admission varies from school to school. For example NYU considers academics and talent equally. So 50% of admissions is based on a student’s audition and 50% comes from academics and other criteria used by admissions. So that second 50% isn’t purely tests and gpa, but will also reflect essays, extracurriculars, letters of recommendation etc. However, when it comes to aid, it seems you will only qualify for merit aid–and it is only given at NYU for talent.</p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon has a very different system. There almost all of your admission is based on talent. I believe merit aid reflects the same criteria. </p>

<p>Going back to your first posts, your tuition totals for private schools are low. At NYU, costs are about $63K a year. Carnegie Mellon isn’t that much cheaper. So even with a talent award of $5k to $15k, you can see that you will be way above your $25k to 30k budget. You need to really research costs, but overall I’d put most privates in the $53k to $64k range when you include all expenses and fees. And I wouldn’t expect above $15k for merit aid (with most schools significantly lower.) Not sure what Michigan’s latest tuition is, but I know it’s quite high for a state school and my understanding is that merit aid is near impossible. </p>

<p>One school to research would be Muhlenberg College. Their merit aid can be as high as $20k per year and they award based on both talent and academics. Their tuition will probably be about $54k to $55k.</p>

<p>My advice is to research the common data set for all the schools on your list. They will list both need based and merit based aid, and will usually give an indication for the criteria used to award their merit awards. From there you will have a much more realistic understanding of each school’s policy. Even if a school shows merit aid without need, call admissions to confirm. I saw a sharp reduction in the amount of merit dollars offered in many schools between D1(2008) and D2 (2012). And several schools known for merit aid, now only give need based. </p>

<p>The best thing you can do for your son is to have realistic expectations about what you would need to pay in order to attend a school and what you are willing to pay. Research and speak to schools directly, making it clear that you probably won’t qualify for aid. (0bviously use financial aid calculators for all schools.) Don’t listen to admissions speeches that say that they will help make a school affordable and that most kids get aid, etc. They are not talking about you in most cases if your income is $200k plus and you don’t qualify for need based aid. That’s why the facts from the common data set is so helpful…</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Most schools admit by audition and it’s one of the hardest things to get through to college counselors and sometimes parents who don’t quite get this process. Especially at the top programs your stats are almost irrelevant. Grades will make a difference for money but they will not get you in to many of these schools. Of course, there are a couple of exceptions. USC, Northwestern, UC Irvine, and sometimes NYU goes on this list but it sounds like there are exceptions. I don’t think it matters where you audition. People get in and don’t on campus or at Unifieds. </p>

<p>There are cheaper schools but they are not the top schools on a typical list.</p>

<p>NYU Steinhardt is on D’s list, and let’s just say we aren’t wealthy, though certainly not needy either. D is very bright - lots of AP’s, high PSATs and Pre ACT. Just took SAT and ACT for the first time. unskoolfish, are you mostly referring to NYU/Steinhardt as 50/50 for Talent / academics admission? And they do give merit aid and some need as well?
Really want to try to give both my D’s the education they want, and hope they can get out with little to no loans. Thanks for the all the info!</p>