<p>Forgive the long post. But this has to be a long post. I’m going to copy a post made by Fishbowl Freshman in April of 2009. She outlined how much it costs to start up in this business. I think you need to think about how much you are going to spend to start up in the business, and then add that to your college debt before you make an educated decision. For this reason, I am copying this amazing and detailed post into this page… </p>
<p>This is not meant to discourage you from going for it. This is just meant to make sure you do so with your eyes wide open… I’m a lawyer. I believe in full advisement… Here goes.</p>
<p>Fishbowl Freshman wrote: </p>
<p>Post-Graduation Expenses for Settling into LA or NYC </p>
<hr>
<p>Here’s some more gloom and doom from the real world consisting of ‘block & moves’ of what it costs to get settled in as an actor in LA and NYC that should be considered on top of what your college will cost. It’s best to know all this now before you find yourself staring into the abyss third or fourth year. </p>
<p>It’s a bit late for it this year, but it might be worth bumping around next March or so for next year’s crop of seniors. It’s definitely worth considering before you commit to ‘tapping out’ your parents or taking on huge amounts of debt for a BFA if you aren’t a trust fund brat like me. As I said in the “Decisions” thread, I’ve already seen and heard about some very talented and well-trained people having to pack it up and go home because they couldn’t keep their heads above water. Hopefully, the economy will have recovered by the time most of the kids on this forum graduate, but what I’m hearing from some people who are ‘out there’ right now is that it’s tough to even get regular, good-paying office temp work due to all the competition from highly experienced office workers who have been laid off.</p>
<p>The first is from an LA working actress that I lifted from the Backstage forum followed by some pertinent replies. We aren’t supposed link other forums here, so look at the Backstage.com message board under ‘New Actors Only’ for a thread by ‘Miss Stone’ entitled ‘For all newbies - must read!!’ for the whole discussion. It seems to be geared more towards people who don’t already have a lot of training (i.e. not BFAs or MFAs), so you MIGHT be able to deduct a little off the costs for that (The author initially trained at Adler LA) although you should know that EVERYONE needs to continue with some kind of training to keep their chops fresh no matter where they went to school. Most commonly, I’m seeing people from my school and others taking audition technique and improv classes. You can also deduct some of the costs for obtaining representation if you’re one of the lucky ones who lands a good agent or manager from your showcase.</p>
<p>I’m not sure who originally authored the second one since it’s been passed around via email and on blogs so many times, but it speaks to the reality of getting settled in bare bones for the first few months in NYC. </p>
<p>Quote:
LONG POST but a MUST READ for newbies!
There has been a lot of questions about moving to LA and NYC lately from some of our new posters. I would like to clear up a few things and put things in perspective about what is really needed from you, financially and emotionally in this business. This info is from an LA perspective but I imagine NYC is very similar. </p>
<p>Some of the necessary things you will absolutely need just to survive are as follows-</p>
<p>Per Month
place to stay $700-$1200
food $300- $500
gas $200- $400
electricity $50- $200
miscellaneous $200 +</p>
<p>So, just to survive at the barest minimum if you have roommates, a LOW gas mileage car and IF gas stays low cost-wise and you never use an air conditioner, sit at home on Saturday night and eat very minimally- $1450 a month.</p>
<p>NOW that is just to live, acting aside. For your acting you need this- (to do it right if you actually want to stand a chance, that is)-</p>
<p>acting classes $800 for 12 weeks at my school
on camera class $200+ a month
improv classes $300 or so for 8 weeks
headshots $400- $600 every six months
reproductions $95 for 300 +
postcards $50 for $200 cheapest
I found
mailings $3.50 for a pack of 25 envelopes
stamps $1 or so to mail a headshot?
ink for printing $60 or so for refills
paper $5- $10 for 500 sheets
reel editing $150- $350
duplication $300??? for a few hundred
padded envelopes
and labels $???
Submission sites $68 for Actors Access
$120 or so for NowCasting depending on which package
$140 for LACasting
$175 for Backstage + Ross
Reports
These are all yearly.
$12.95 a month for IMDBPro
Film Independent
Membership $95 a year
Women in Film $110- $210 a year
Australians in $125 a year
Film
AFTRA initiation
fee $1300 + dues</p>
<p>So, without any union fees and without including the price for DVD mailings etc, the amount for that first year would be around $14,000, give or take. So that and your survival money is around $30,000 for that first year. Now, the next year will fluctuate and you may or may not continue with ALL the above mentioned classes but you will hopefully need to join the unions and that is when the extra $3600 will sting. And the on-going classes are absolutely essential. Very few people are instantly ready and most need developing. You constantly need to be training and working on your craft to stay in practice and to be able to compete readily in the game. There are literally 100,000’s out there trying to do this and you need to bring your A-game at all times. I can’t stress the need for classes- really. It prepares you for the day when you finally get that big audition and ensures you do not fall apart from nerves and BELIEVE me it happens to everyone!! Nothing worse than getting a shot and not being ready. You only get one chance to make a first impression- don’t kill it with arrogance, ego or an idea that you are so much better than everyone else as the truth is- you’re not. But what you can be is prepared, professional and ready. Training will do that. </p>
<p>Now, about the memberships etc. One of biggest part of this business is marketing and selling your product- that is YOU. It doesn’t matter how good you are (or think you are) if noone knows you exist. Gotta meet and greet and put yourself out there. Not the time to be shy. But running around getting blind drunk at parties and harassing executives etc on their night off is not my recommended plan of attack, especially not for girls. The legit and classy way to mix with other like-minded individuals is at screenings etc, such as the ones held by the above listed groups I mentioned. There are also breakfasts with guest speakers and these are golden opportunities to attend and just LISTEN. Don’t walk aprund with a greedy look and a gimme- gimme vibe. Waste of time. Be the quiet one. Just listen and observe. A few weeks of this and seeing the same faces and they will want to talk to YOU. Have a little mystery but be YOURSELF. Everyone in this town wants something. Be the one who doesn’t and see what happens. Talk about anything, whatever comes naturally and force nothing. If you simply relax and act like a friendly and open human being anywhere in this town, you would be amazed who you meet and what can happen. Really. I worked as a demo girl at a supermarket in some very good neighborhoods ages ago and there I met producers and personal managers. To this day we are in contact. I didn’t suck up or say gimme gimme- I teased them, argued and debated with them and they loved it. When you are in a position of power and everyone is kissing your ass because they want something from you, you know what turns them on? People who tell them they are wrong and keep it REAL. So, MARKETING and NETWORKING is the point of joining those organizations.</p>
<p>Submission sites- I listed all the best ones and yeah, you need them all. They all have different projects and serve different purposes. The best up and coming actors out there have them and so should you. At first.
And NO SNAPSHOTS IN YOUR APARTMENT TO BE ON YOUR ONLINE PAGES EVER!!! NEVER!!! PROFESSIONAL SHOTS ONLY!!! Let me say it again for the cheap seats in the back- 100,000’s of people doing the SAME THING as you!!! Make your headshot count!!!NO SNAPSHOTS!!! No half-naked, implied naked poses (girls- no bare shoulders or pouting like Playboy centerfolds, air-brushing). For the guys- no flexed muscles, oiled-up and “Damn, I think I am sexy” shots- NO NO NO and NO. We are actors. We are not models or porn stars or strippers or trying to do Calvin Klein underwear ads. If that’s your thing, by all means go for it and God Speed. Just know where it belongs and where it doesn’t. Don’t put a sexy picture online and wonder why you attract the freaks. This ain’t Kansas, Dorothy!!</p>
<p>About AFTRA. I for one, WHOLEHEARTEDLY recommend anyone with the money who wants to be SAG Eligible as soon as possible, join AFTRA TODAY no matter where you are in the country. Period. Let me explain. One of the ways to become SAG eligible is to be a member of a sister union for a year and get just one speaking line in an AFTRA project. Just ONE. I for one think that if you submit your GOOD headshot off like crazy to all the soaps- this is very possible and the best way to get SAG- IMO. Extra work for vouchers? Ugh. Shudder. Why WOULD you!! You didn’t move here to be someone’s ***** for $60 a day, okay? Bad idea. You can wait for a Taft- Hartley, yes possible- but imagine if you are living where you are and saving up to come BUT you are AFTRA and as the year goes by in a snap. That means as soon as you get to LA, you get just one itty bitty line on an AFTRA show and BAM- you are SAG ELIGIBLE!!! Awesome. Now after a year or so honing your craft and getting your reel together, you are ready to submit to legit agents and not look like a green and inexperienced fool. SAG-E will make you much more attractive to agents. JOIN AFTRA NOW!!! But not SAG. Not until you HAVE to. Build that reel!! By all means submit to agents if you must before you have these things. But beware of who you attract with no credits, unions or training. The sharks are fierce and there are MANY!! I would highly advise only commercial agents in the beginning stages. And it is expensive to do mailings these days. Best to wait until you have something better to bring to the table- IMO. To sum up-
- A reel
- A GREAT headshot
- SAG Eligible
- credits
- TRAINING</p>
<p>That way you might have a shot. Instead of 100,000 to compete with maybe now only 99,000!! LOL.</p>
<p>Finally, survival jobs. This was my Achilles Hell and still is. I can’t even stress how hard it is to land even a meager server job in LA. Again, 100,000’s of people. It is no wonder, really. And with this economy and recession which we CANNOT deny, I can only imagine the pain for many this year. With people cutting back on spending- i.e. eating out and with the likely strike, there will be even fewer jobs as partially working actors who previously got speaking parts are forced to beg for extra shifts at their day jobs. FYI- I do fully support the strike. But if you are planning a move here, be patient and stay home and continue to save your money HARD and learn a new skill as it could come in handy for when you come out here. Learn anything that you think could give you an extra edge over others and an opportunity to make money from. Sit tight and see what is happening with Hollywood first. No point in coming out here to struggle and agonize with everyone else. If they strike- LA will be a **** fight. Period.</p>
<p>I know there is SOOOOO much more but I am exhausted after this and besides- I am not revealing all my secrets!!
I hope this has been of some help to anyone and whatever you do- rememeber this is s BUSINESS. This is not a game and those of us in it for life take it very seriously. Focus, work your ass off, be professional and do your research, never lose sight of your goal and be realistic about how long it will really take. It CAN HAPPEN. I promise you. Best of luck and God Bless. </p>
<p>I forgot!!! Theatre is a must!!! Join a theatre group. Some require dues! That is %50- $75 a month. Make sure they are reputable. A theatre actor is a GREAT actor. Period. </p>
<p>Quote:
This is an excellent post that I think will benefit newbies or even those that have experience in outside markets and are on the next step of moving to a bigger market. </p>
<p>From a NY perspective the costs are pretty much the same the only difference being that you can take advantage of Mass transit and buy a monthly metro card for 81 per month.
Also rent can range anywhere from 900-2500. I worked with a girl that had roommates and paid 1600 for a room because the apartment was so expensive. Of course you can always live outside of Manhattan in either Queens or Brookly, but rent costs are going up in those areas as well. </p>
<p>In situations like these, it’s always better to over prepare and save as much as possible. It is also difficult here to get bartending and waitressing gigs, because there are a plethora of young attractive people trying to make it as actors. </p>
<p>The only numbers to focus on are the ones accumulating in your savings account. </p>
<p>Quote:
Thanks!!! Let me say that again, Thanks!!! Is there a way to force all aspiring actors who say they are “ready to move to LA/NYC” to read this thread? </p>
<p>What you have presented is very sobering information. I am sure it was not meant to discourage anyone from following their dream, but just to make sure they are properly prepared to make the move. There are too many people who think it is just going to happen over night. They are going to come out to LA or NYC and suddenly make a lot of money. I think I recently saw a post from someone who said they have saved up $6,000, so they are now ready to move to LA??? I am sure that this person does not realize that there are lots of costs that need to be incurred to do this correctly. You have very nicely enumerated them for everybody. They need to realize that it is going to take time to make the $30,000 or so that is needed to survive in LA or NYC by acting alone. And their are a lot of people are already out in LA or NYC who are not making that kind of money in acting so they will be competing with them for the “day” job.</p>
<p>Again, Thanks for posting it. </p>
<p>Quote:
This is a really informative post, Miss Stone! I just wanted to add insurance to the list (sorry if it’s already here and I overlooked it, but I don’t think it is). At least a couple hundred each for car insurance and health insurance goes on that monthly tally. Just to be clear, I’m not posting this to quibble or anything; I know that some of the people reading this post are younger and insurance may not have occurred to them. </p>
<p>NYC Specific by unknown author …</p>
<p>Quote:
“My advice would be to make sure you have a financial cushion – even with the promise of a job where you’ll immediately start to make money, I would say you would need to come with a bare minimum of $5,000-10,000 in liquid savings, plus whatever you anticipate your move costs to be. If you will have to come and then look for a job, then obviously you would need much more to cover any period of unemployment. But to rent an apartment, plan on putting down in cash at least 2 months’ rent (1st month + a security deposit equivalent to a month’s rent), and then if you go through a broker (which is sometimes a necessary evil here) you’d have to pay typically a fee equivalent to 15% of the annual rent for the pleasure of working with them. All that can eat up $5,000-10,000 in the blink of an eye.” </p>
<p>" Grocery shopping, and the difficulty/ease of it, can vary. It depends largely on where you live in the city; it can be very easy or very hard. I used to live in the midtown area, and the nearest decent-sized grocery store (not a deli; they’re practically on every corner) was 8 blocks away – that sucked. Where I live right now, it is ridiculously easy, as there is a large (for Manhattan) grocery store right on my corner. Depending on how long you’ve lived in the suburbs and how used to a big weekly shopping trip, it might take some adjusting, but we basically go to the store every day or every few days, and carry a few bags home. We don’t buy in bulk like you might in the suburbs. Kitchens are tiny here anyway, so there’s usually not room to store “value size” supplies anyway. The other really great option for most of New York at this point is Fresh Direct, which is an online delivery service. It’s pretty inexpensive and delivers the next day (you pick a 2-hour period for them to deliver). I don’t use it too much because of the convenience of our local store, but some people use it for the majority of their shopping. </p>
<ul>
<li><p>Safety also depends on where you live, I guess, though the majority of the city is pretty safe these days. Let me tell you, I feel MUCH safer here than in many smaller cities, including my hometown of Hartford! You can safely ride the subway until 1 or 2 in the morning and they will always be well populated, and one of the nice things about going out in the city is that there is no reason to drive after drinking (just stick out your hand and hail a cab!), so that to me is a huge step up from the suburbs in terms of safety.</p></li>
<li><p>Increased cost of living is true – especially in terms of rent and eating – though at least you won’t be paying for gas anymore and let’s be honest, with the way those costs are going, most New Yorkers’ $81 unlimited monthly metrocard is much more affordable than many suburban commuting costs." </p></li>
</ul>
<p>" I’m pretty sure that many if not most landlords will require that you provide proof of annual income of 40-50x the monthly rent, not 25x. For guarantors, it’s more like 80-100x. Often, it’s made more difficult for those coming from outside the tri-state area, because sometimes guarantors are required to be from the area. If you have large cash assets that can easily cover 6 months or more of the rent, you may be able to get away without proving such an income. I’ve heard a decent rule of thumb in budgeting for rent in NYC is to expect to spend 25% of your gross annual income on rent. When I first moved here, I think I spent a little over 50% of my take-home salary on rent. (My parents had to be a guarantor on my first two apartments.) </p>
<p>It’s not easy, especially just starting out."</p>
for each $8,000 you borrow at 4.5% (this is low-it will probably be higher) you would owe about $103 per month for 15 years. With a loan of $160,000, you would owe $2,060 per month for 15 years. Now, you might be able to get this down a bit with working part-time, small scholarships, etc. But I can’t imagine graduating from college and have to start paying $2,000 per month in loans. No matter how good you are, we all know how chancy this career - it is very possible you will barely be able to feed yourself, let alone pay back that kind of money. And think of the limitations it will put on your life- that is a house payment!!! In addition to all of this, you will need a co-signer to even get the loan and that may not be possible if your parents are that cash-strapped. </p>
</p>