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How many are there…who are ‘exceptional’?</p>
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<p>Yes… but that is why it does well in Payscale rankings. A school that only offers majors with better job prospects will tend to do better in Payscale rankings than a school that offers all kinds of majors – but that does not say whether a business major will necessarily do better at Babson than at some other school in terms of job prospects.</p>
<p>OP is arguing one tip of the iceberg. That’s all. </p>
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<p>I wouldn’t, either. How much does an accountant for a typical small business earn?
More than a curriculum design or policy expert working for a major think-tank, government agency, or BOE for a large, affluent school district?</p>
<p>Alumni of Stanford and other “elite” institutions rise to the top in many fields (not just engineering, law, medicine, or business.)</p>
<p><a href=“List of Stanford University faculty and staff - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stanford_University_people</a>
<a href=“List of Harvard University people - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Harvard_University_people</a>
<a href=“List of Williams College people - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Williams_College_people</a></p>
<p><a href=“Babson College - Wikipedia”>Babson College - Wikipedia;
<p>Much ado about nothing. It’s not like the list ONLY includes focused pre-professional schools like Babson and Webb. All the usual “best school” suspects seem to be there too. </p>
<p>The Money rankings do, indeed, have most of the other elite schools. I think a lot of you are glomming on to the headline in my post and not reading the rest of the rankings or their criteria. So, too many of you are fixated on Babson and Webb. No doubt, these are specialized schools, so naturally, they rank high in terms of long term income potential. But then how do you explain that Brigham Young is No. 9 and ranks above several Ivy League Schools, but has a 55 percent acceptance rate? I suppose its because mostly Mormons attend, but that is a diversified liberal arts university – but is easier to get into than some of these Ivies and elite colleges that parents and students just glom on to. Lafayette has a 38% acceptance rate and ranks HIGHER than Duke, Swarthmore and Georgetown. And if your kid is going to major in history or something that will require grad education in order to get any kind of decent job, would it not be better to gear him or her to apply to schools that are less expensive, like your state colleges and universities, so he or she is not saddled with mountains of debt plus heartache they were rejected? Or, gear them to schools with good financial aid – that they have a chance at! If your kid is a national merit scholar finalist or top 5% of his or her class or a really good athlete, or a URM from a ghetto high school, then maybe it makes sense to try these elite schools – if you can pay for it. But what is nice about Money and PayScale is they IDENTIFY schools that in some cases are EASIER to get into, have excellent pre-professional training or great financial aid so your kid is not forever paying off loans for a degree that is worthless in today’s job market. BTW, Babson is part of the Worcester Consortium, so even if you major in business, you can take a lot of great liberal arts courses at Holy Cross or Wellesley. PLUS, a 29% acceptance rate. so, if your kids i interested in business, why would you want to steer them to apply to elite schools they have NO chance of getting in, when they have a better than average chance (if interested in business), going to the No. 1 college in America???</p>
<p>Nah. My kid majored in an aspect of history and has a solid job in a techie start-up. She got the right finaid from a top “meet full need,” came out a great thinker and writer, a persistent sort, and is knowledgeable about more than, oh, say, business. Yeah, she has college loans. Oh, btw, the Statie would have cost us more than where she went, based on their crappy aid. </p>
<p>That’s the thing-- you can’t look at these sorts of issues “lite” and not all of us just think about vocational training. A business degree from a primarily business school is not the only entree. </p>
<p>And I don’t see Babson in the Worcester Consortium. (Nor is Wellesley.) And it’s not a “meet full need.” </p>
<p>And also, I don’t think you realize we have had this argument multiple times on CC, over the years. </p>
<p>Babson has a collaborative agreement with Olin College of Engineering and Wellesley for cross registration and collaboration.</p>
<p>^ and Brandeis, Regis, Pine Manor. Max, one course/semester.</p>
<p>BYU is one of the least expensive schools in the country to attend, even for non-Mormans. However, unless you are Morman (and even if you are), there are some serious downsides to going there as far as “fit” goes.</p>
<p>They charge twice for non Mormons, according to the article. So, even at TWICE the rate for Mormon students, MrMom62 says it’s cheaper than these other elite schools, But with BYU, you get a fine university – 9th in the country – and learn to abstain from tobacco, alcholol and caffeine. Not bad! </p>
<p>According to the US Census Bureau, the income of the median U.S. household was $51,900 in 2013.
For families earning $48,001-$75,000, according to IPEDS data, the following are the average prices paid to attend BYU and the 8 Ivy League colleges.</p>
<p>$16830 Cornell
$13369 BYU
$11403 UPenn
$11259 Brown
$10539 Dartmouth
$7258 Columbia
$6939 Yale
$6077 Princeton
$5405 Harvard</p>
<p>That BYU number is an average for all students, including Mormons and non-Mormons.</p>
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<p>I dare you to inform your child they are going to BYU, no questions asked. They will disown you, and deservedly so.</p>
<p>/tk21769 Average prices? $5405 for Harvard? Does this mean MOST students get financial aid? I cant believe that. The elite schools use the same EFC calculation as all other schools. It’s all based on need. these number imply that an overly large number of kids at these schools get close to full funding. But again, the point I have made in this thread is that BYU and other schools like state schools are better or just as good and not a heart ache to try to “get in.”</p>
<p>@proudfather: </p>
<p>A lot of kids at Harvard get financial aid. More than half.
Dunno why you can’t believe that. Harvard’s filthy rich.
Also, a lot of the kids at Harvard come from upper-middle-class families or above and don’t get financial aid.</p>
<p>Note also that that is the average price for someone who comes from a family that makes $48K->$75K a year. As I’d hope you’d imagine, most kids there come from families that make more than that.</p>
<p>In any case, for some career paths, a state school is just as good as Harvard. For others, not so much.
For some kids (depending on their fin aid situation and how much merit money they can get), a state school costs less than Harvard. For others, they cost more.</p>
<p>For that matter, for some kids, getting in to Harvard is as easy as getting in to their state school (usually they are pretty good at certain sports or have certain talents/accomplishments/family, however). For others, it’s harder.</p>
<p>proudfather Harvard and Princeton are so heavy in endowment that getting financial aid is a bit different compared to 99.99% of colleges. For instance Princeton average financial aid is about $40000 to a family that earns about $120K/year. So the average student receiving financial aid pays a net amount of about $15K/year. A typical EFC for a family earning $120k would be about $35K at almost every other college. Since most state flagships cost less than $30K/year, families earning 120K would not receive any financial aid.</p>
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<p>These numbers are fairly easy to find on the Internet.
With an IPEDS query, you can see what the average family in various income bands pays to attend each school.
<a href=“Use The Data”>http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/datacenter/</a></p>
<p>You can find the number of students receiving financial aid, and the average amounts, in each school’s Common Data Set file, section H.</p>
<p>You can estimate net prices for up to 3 schools at a time, based on your own detailed financial and other personal information, using College Abacus. <a href=“https://collegeabacus.org/”>https://collegeabacus.org/</a>
(or use each school’s online Net Price Calculator).</p>
<p>In my opinion, the Kiplinger college ranking is a better tool than the Money rankings for families trying to identify “best value” colleges. It allows users to click-sort on various evaluation factors (to isolate the ones most important to you). Kiplinger ranks BYU #23 for “value” among private universities, behind 7 of the 8 Ivies. Of course, “value” depends heavily on each individual’s aid package (if any) as well as sticker price. For many high-achieving lower income and middle income students, the 8 Ivies will be relatively good values. If your family makes up to about $120K/year, they may even be cheaper after aid (or at least cost-competitive with) your in-state public flagship university. The same is true, in some cases, for about 50 other highly selective colleges that claim to cover 100% of demonstrated need. If you rank in the top 10% of your HS class, with SAT CR+M of 1400 or above and good ECs, you should have a pretty good chance of getting into at least one of these schools.
<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2014/09/15/colleges-and-universities-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2014/09/15/colleges-and-universities-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need</a></p>
<p>To estimate affordability for your own situation (or a specific hypothetical situation), going to the common data set section H or the IPEDS data is rather pointless when the school’s net price calculator will give an estimate that is more tailored to that situation.</p>
<p>Note also that claims to “meet 100% of demonstrated need” may not give a true picture of how good the school’s financial aid is. Two schools making that claim can produce net prices that differ by nearly $40,000 per year for some situations, for example.</p>
<p>In any case, the private schools with the best financial aid also tend to be the most selective, so one typically cannot count on them as safety options.</p>
<p>^ Yes, but this seems to be a debate about the likely ROI of various kinds of colleges, not about techniques for estimating net prices for specific family circumstances (which I also called out in my post above).</p>
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<p>Yes, there are cases where the net prices of these colleges may differ by that much. However, they seem to be outliers. More likely, the differences will be within a much narrower band. That’s what I’ve found, anyway, in the estimates I’ve run. And even the most expensive of the “full need” schools may be cheaper than some alternatives that don’t make that claim. Examples:</p>
<p><a href=“What should my reach schools be? - #8 by tk21769 - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums”>What should my reach schools be? - #8 by tk21769 - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums; (post #7, $130K family income;“full need” schools are Middlebury, Bates; spread is ~$10K )</p>
<p><a href=“Is attending an expensive under-grad school worth it in the long run? - #31 by tk21769 - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums”>Is attending an expensive under-grad school worth it in the long run? - #31 by tk21769 - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums; (post #23, $120K family income;“full need” schools are UPenn, Bryn Mawr, Colby, Yale; spread is ~$8K; the most expensive “full need” school is nearly $10K cheaper than the listed in-state public university )</p>
<p><a href=“What are some schools with good undergraduate physics programs I should look into? - #16 by jkeil911 - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1664887-what-are-some-schools-with-good-undergraduate-physics-programs-i-should-look-into-p2.html</a> (post #21, $80K family income;“full need” schools are Boston College, Holy Cross, UChicago; spread is ~$4K; the most expensive “full need” school still is cheaper than one of the in-state public alternatives) </p>
<p><a href=“Parents of non-NM finalists, did your kid get scholarships at OOS state universities? - #77 by tk21769 - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums”>Parents of non-NM finalists, did your kid get scholarships at OOS state universities? - #77 by tk21769 - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums; (post #76, $76K family income"full need" schools are USC, Mudd, Brown, Vanderbilt, Yale; spread is ~$12K; the most expensive of these is cost-competitive with two in-state public universities)</p>
<p><a href=“Is UMich a good choice for OOS students? - #15 by tk21769 - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums”>Is UMich a good choice for OOS students? - #15 by tk21769 - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums; (post #14, $40K family income; “full need” schools are BC, USC, NU, ND; spread is ~$6K) </p>
<p><a href=“Where should I apply for computer science? - #20 by tk21769 - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums”>Where should I apply for computer science? - #20 by tk21769 - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums; (post #19, $20K family income; “full need” schools are JHU, Tufts, Stanford, Vanderbilt; spread is ~$4K)</p>
<p>YMMV</p>
<p>Let’s remember aid, even at Harvard, depends on family particulars beyond income. Assets, number in family, how many in college at the same time, etc. </p>
<p>Our meet full need was less expensive than State because they have more to give and a generous policy. But “value” was also in the academics and the usual factors like class size and other opportunities, etc. </p>
<p>Yes, it’s very YMMV. When broad statements are made, I have to wonder how much an individual family did its due diligence.</p>