<p>There are several posts above questioning why a prestigious school, such as Chicago, is ranked poorly, while less prestigious schools, such as Babson, are ranked well. Note that the money magazine list methodology is quite different from USNWR or the criteria that is often valued among forum members, so the rankings are expected to be quite different. For example, Babson is ranked 5th in Payscale’s mid career salary list, in spite of being less selective than most of the other colleges ranked well on Payscale and not having a huge number of tech majors (all business-related majors), so I’d expect Babson to do well. In contrast, Chicago is only ranked 104th on Payscale’s salary list and 243rd on their ROI list. Payscale members don’t post impressive salaries for University of Chicago in spite of the school having a highly talented student body, so I’d expect Chicago to be ranked quite poorly under money magazine’s methodology. I’m sure a large portion Chicago grads who do not pursue grad/professional school go on to do amazing things and meet their life goals extremely well, but if those life goals do not involve a high salary (particularly in relation to their major), then it’s going to hurt Chicgao’s ranking on money magazine’s list.</p>
<p>I think this list is superior to Payscale’s list since they consider distribution of majors (apparently not well enough and not enough consideration to different cost of livings in different areas), and they consider some quality related factors, but there are many obvious flaws with the methodology. Of course the same could be said for all other rankings I am aware of. If you don’t like the way the colleges are ordered in this ranking, there are many alternative rankings to choose from. However, I’d suggest instead focusing on the criteria that is important to you, rather than the criteria that is important to money magazine, payscale, forbes, USNWR, TWU, or other external groups… Back when I applied to colleges, I creating my own college ranking list. I made a spreadsheet listing the criteria I valued according to a common measurement unit, applied weighting to those criteria, then added up the scores. My applications didn’t directly follow the ranking order, but the list was helpful in finding colleges that excelled in the criteria I was looking for, including some ones that had not been on my radar.</p>
<p>That is where the USNews gurus lost a wonderful opportunity. A few years ago, it was still possible to “download” the data produced by the magazine and rebuild a spreadsheet that could be reorganized with different weights. Of course, the limitations were that numbers in separate columns were not real raw numbers. </p>
<p>I remember discussing this Bob Morse and recommending to sell a CD version with the last five years of data for a price well above the cost of a magazine. Obviously, he was not impressed because they moved in the other direction and made the susbscribed data just as useful or useless as the printed version. </p>
<p>The greatest value of the rankings of USNews is that there are a wealth of details presented in an organized format. The drawback is that the organization is also depriving a student to rearrange the data in the way Data10 described. On would need days of analyzing CDS forms or NCES diving to come close. </p>
<p>PS I doubt that many people spend much time “helping” payscale develop their numbers! GIGO it is! Not to mention that the methodogy of payscale works in favor of schools such as Babson. Students who earn a BS in Business are rarely looking at graduate schools as the next step, as the degree is often their terminal one. Where students who have graduate degrees show up on payscale is unclear. </p>
<p>Eh, let go of your prejudices. If Manhattan gets you where you want to go at a better price than Vassar/RPI/Rochester/Union/Binghampton, then why not? Maybe the education there really <em>is</em> better. How would you know?</p>
<p>And I think highly of Babson and Webb. For the right type of kid in a particular circumstance, they are terrific. They can even be better than HYPSM.</p>
<p>There are many ways to “get where you want to go” and different options everywhere. The devil is in the details. If you ask a bunch of people about the best “business schools” in the country, chances are that people will answer with Wharton, Stern, Ross, and perhaps a number of schools that do NOT have a business school a la Harvard! </p>
<p>Yet, if one wants the very best education in accounting, is there a better one than McCombs in Texas for the UG and above? Doubtful? If one wants to specialize in logistics and supply management, would he not be better off in Georgia or Arizona. Other schools such as UTD in Dallas or Babson or Northeastern are all carving their niches. </p>
<p>So far so good! Most of those examples are based on very good returns for a pre-professional undergraduate degree. But should specialty schools be mentioned as candidates for the “Best Colleges” in the Unied States? Would a school specializing in educating longshoremen (if that was necessary beyond selling your soul to the ILA or ILWU) or those special boat captains ( a la Louisiana Baton Rouge) be compared to our research universities or LAC? The salaries would be quite different from the “education” received. </p>
<p>In the end, is the mixing of apples and oranges that is so silly! </p>
<p>Well, all rankings are silly to an extent (really only good for bragging rights). Especially since you really should compare between majors or industries. But that’s why I don’t automatically rank Manhattan below RPI/Rochester/whatever (nor do I think that they’re better, either). It really depends on the individual and your goals.</p>
<p>^ Well, Binghamton is a state school and about $30K less a year than Manhattan. </p>
<p>I don’t have anything against Manhattan. My own kid looked at it as a possible safety. I also know quite a few graduates as my son’s prep school was also LaSallian and the Pres. of MC was on our school’s board. I’m sure the kids who go there get a very good education, too, but I wouldn’t but it in the same league as the other schools I mentioned. </p>
On the same league by what measure? Manhattan is ranked in the top 25 on Payscale’s salary list. Manhattan also does quite well on Payscale’s ROI list, well over 100 places better than Binhampton on both Payscale lists. So it should come as no surprise than Manhattan does well in Money magazine’s ranking.</p>
<p>Yes, I get that it ranks well on Money’s and Payscale’s list. Good for them. That doesn’t mean I have to buy into that Manhattan is a better school then the schools I listed. But you are free to if you want, though. </p>
<p>Consider the source. I’m sure they couldn’t get the data from many, many better schools as they won’t have tracked their students. Their idea of best is purely economic/financial as well. Toss this into the trash bin of worthless rankings.</p>
The money magazine list ranks what school is “better” by the criteria they define in their methodology, which emphasizes financial ROI, something that I’d expect to be important to most money magazine readers. It’s not surprising that money magazine’s criteria that emphasizes financial ROI does not match how you define “better.” It’s not supposed to. A similar statement could be made for other ranking lists.</p>
<p>“I do believe I’ve seen something somewhere that some studies indicate that HS GPA and rank has more to do with how successful you are after college than what college you attend.”</p>
<p>I know HS GPA predicts future success as well as standardized testing does. Combining the two is even better. My suspicion is that GPA measures conscientiousness more while standardized testing measures cognitive ability more, otherwise combining the two would not improve predictability at all.</p>
<p>I know several Manhattan Engineering grads and they are quite successful. This is not some half-assed program. It has been around since 1893 . Their STEM Career Fair attracts at least 60 odd companies.</p>
<p>While you may not want to cross the country to attend Manhattan, the fact remains that they are placing engineers in companies in the New York metropolitan area, which leads to a high ROI.</p>
<p>Manhattan is not a school to be discounted.</p>
<p>Disclaimer - I have not attended Manhattan nor do I have any relatives that have attended.</p>
<p>Paysacle’s salary survey, used by Money Magazine, doesn’t include college graduates who earned a graduate degree, went into law or medicine, are self employed, work part-time, or contract. By not including grads with graduate degree or who went into law or medicine, their ranking penalizes schools such as University of Chicago where many grads go on to earn a PhD, JD, or MD and rewards some engineering schools. ■■■■■■/1pxjVzR</p>
<p>GPA and various other aptitude measures matter (a lot), but …</p>
<p>It is interesting to see the rivalry between A&M and UT, the two Texas flagship public universities. A&M has slightly lower test scores, and their average student is lower class rank, yet they have similar graduation rates and typical A&M graduates have higher salaries at all stages of their career. And this is even stranger because UT is well known for its programs in higher paying majors (Engineering for example) and has a well known business program. Presumably A&M graduates would say that the college choice matters and helped them. Not having gone to either, I can’t comment from personal experience but I can see possible reasons for this in discussions with my son’s friends.</p>
<p>My instinct is that college choice matters a lot, especially for males - in this era where males are flaming out of college at so much higher rate and good teaching and a college culture of intellectual curiosity continues to have some value.</p>
<p>CC would be a far less active and less interesting forum if most believed that college choice didn’t matter </p>
<p>@2018RiceParent :
If you are looking at average salary, I believe that is due to A&M having a greater percentage of engineers. Also, what is the difference in graduation rate between the 2 schools? If A&M’s is lower, then that could mean the weaker students washing out there. I believe (from some study I saw), that if you compare non-engineering majors, UT-Austin does ever so slightly better in average salary.</p>
<p>@PurpleTitan The graduation rates 4 year/6 year/8 year are almost identical between A&M and UT according to the NCES site. The universities are of very similar size and relatively close (90 minutes apart by car). The percentage of undergraduate engineers is slightly higher at A&M (14% vs. 12%) but not much and not enough to account for the salary difference. 1093 (engineering graduated) out of 9154 (total students who graduated) at UT vs. 1369 (engineering graduated) out of 9538 (total students who graduated) at A&M. The HS test scores and average HS grades are lower at A&M (and the tuition cost is slightly lower at A&M but not enough to be a major factor). Most students are admitted to UT purely on class rank (and their bar is higher than A&M). Subjective factors play little part in admissions for the vast majority (ie “autoadmits”) at both so it is implausible that admissions mistakes at UT cause the difference.</p>
<p>There is a perception among some of my son’s friends that the college culture at A&M helps with student’s success but I have no first hand knowledge other than to observe that the students appear generally friendlier.</p>
<p>Those two schools make a fascinating comparison.</p>
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