<p>“The undergraduate experience is where adolescents turn into young adults.”</p>
<p>If you really want a child to turn into an adult, have him work for a couple of years. Professional advantages aside, residential colleges basically extend childhood.</p>
<p>^^^ Knowing how to do things is one matter. Knowing what to do, why to consider it, when it is wise to do it, and what the hidden issues are surrounding it are the types of things that one addresses in a well-rounded liberal arts education. That’s why people with technical skills in many fields often have a boss with a liberal arts degree who has been trained to see a much broader picture.</p>
<p>Thank you all for the excellent perspectives. Great and thoughtful information. Hmom, I appreciate you bringing the topic back to the original question. And, yes, I am not truly expecting a substantial increase in the offer. I’ve heard the same things as you have. But I can hope, right?</p>
<p>Edad, right, we have decided that it’s not worth the cost as it stands. Mind you, if the financial offer changes, we will be rethinking everything, which is why I posted in the first place. And, no, I’m not looking for others to agree with me, since there is nothing to agree with. I’m simply curious about what others think about the value of different types of education. I’m still working on my ideas. What the heck do I know? It’s my first kid in the college process, so these thoughts are a work in progress. </p>
<p>Why else do we post here if not to learn from one another?</p>
<p>Pageturner,</p>
<p>I, too, am awaiting an appeal for first son who is accepted to same dream school and same school within dream school. Three kids to go after him and I am struggling with all the possibilities. He also has a VERY affordable offer from the state honors college. </p>
<p>Honestly, I change my mind at least every day as to the right answer. I have tried to educate him with all the amortization tables on student loan debt, etc. But ultimately he will have to decided whether the extra 10k-15k per year he may borrow to go to dream school would be worth it. I think I have scared him out of taking the chance and I feel bad about that too.</p>
<p>It’s very hard because you need to think beyond the next 4 years and what the world may look like. Staying in school a long time may be the best bet, and the debt may be better saved for later degrees. </p>
<p>Sad though, dream school is truly dreamy and definitely changes lives. We will probably be shooting for grad school there…or somewhere else!</p>
<p>p.s. I am a teacher too…good luck!</p>
<p>The topic untouched is the advantage of coop experience, which can boost employability. Having debt you can barely pay with a job is very different then having debt that you can’t pay because you don’t have a job.</p>
<p>In hiring do architectural firms prefer new hires with experience?</p>
<p>So right that other families are dealing w/similar challenges. I would venture to say that ‘how much is the educational experience worth’ (including the intangibles mentioned, in addition to more job opps) is a question that’s very specific to the student, his/her major & future career, the school, the possibility of grad school and the parents’ ability to contribute. I wanted the ‘direct answer’ to that question also, but have resigned myself that it’s a very individualistic response.</p>
<p>Not to high-jack the thread, but in our case, we’re moving from living on 1 income to 2 and have saved very little for son’s college. However, if I’m willing to contribute, say, $32k of my upcoming salary over the next four years ($800 a month for 10 months a year) to reduce son’s debt to what is generally perceived as ‘managable’ – should that be a ‘bad’ decision because I chose to care for a younger child & not work/save prior to son’s entrance to college? It’s definitely more risky (counts on the fact that I’ll get job, no huge other expenses will arise, husband will keep his job, etc.). </p>
<p>It’s hard, but at the end of the day, I think the answer to the problem “how much is the education worth” requires painstakingly working through a complex equation that is completely individual to each family and student.</p>
<p>
We all face this choice on every purchase we ever make. Why get the A/C for the car … the car works fine without it but it a little better with the A/C … is it worth the additional expense. Granted, paying for a private college is a much bigger incremental expense … but I would claim for <em>some</em> kids the fit of <em>some</em> schools makes the arguement to spend the extra money a legitimate one.</p>
<p>I don’t know, toadstool. That is a good question. We have talked and talked with him about the internship issue. Hey, it’s a foot in the door! He gets paid! All that. But with those internships, he loses out on actually being in college full time. So, I’m back to the value problem.</p>
<p>Yes, I have been looking at the “value” issue, but the posts keep steering back to real money. So, if we are talking about actual dollars and cents, I suppose can look at my own education as a guideline. I graduated in the late 1980’s with a masters degree from HYP with one of the silliest degrees ever, job wise: music performance. With that degree, I had $20,000 debt, the highest the government allowed on guaranteed student loans ($2500/yr undergrad, $5000/yr grad).</p>
<p>I had a lousy job with lousy pay during the 10 years I was in repayment (before I started teaching). But, I did it, without terrible difficulty. So, asking a kid to take on $20,000 in debt doesn’t seem to be a great hardship to me, especially if the kid is graduating with a semi-practical degree, and we are talking about salaries in 2009 (actually 2014, when he graduates-it’s a 5 year program), not 1989. I would venture to say that maybe even double that might not make me a bad mother. But, yeah, we may need to help a bit in the first year or two. </p>
<p>Back to “value”:
Am I glad I went to HYP even though I was in a lot of debt when I graduated? Yes, I am now, because it all worked out in the end. BUT, I don’t have the experience of the other side of the coin: what if I had gone to a middle ranked college and didn’t graduate with that much debt? I would have lost out on a once-in-a-lifetime educational experience, but I probably wouldn’t have had to work at that lousy job for ten years (but that which doesn’t kill us makes us stronger, right?). </p>
<p>So, round and round I go…</p>
<p>"How much is a superior (subjective) education worth? How much is the name worth? How do we judge this? By the amount of money he will make when he graduates? By the contacts he makes down the road? </p>
<p>What about education for education’s sake? What is that worth? Let’s assume that he gets a more well-rounded education at choice #1. Is college a means to an end? Has it become a trade school? I mean no disrespect toward trade schools-historically,the comparison is apples and oranges.</p>
<p>Where is the most value? "</p>
<p>I know the original posted question was about the bottom line, ie, dollars. But we have had this conversation with our daughter more than a few times. We have seen her four older brothers through college and we have one son still when she leaves for school, money will come into play. We did save for each of our kids. The boys have all done state schools because that is where they were happy. They each used every dollar but left school debt free. Our daughter has her eyes on Tier 1 LAC and Ivy League so her situation is different. Her money will meet half her need for 4 years. So, that leave us holding the $100,000 bag. She has drive like no one else I ever met. She wants the “big time” and she knows it will come with a big price tag. If my husband and I don’t take on the debt and if encourage her to not take on the debt, then we force her to settle for a second or third choice in which she has no passion.</p>
<p>What worries me is when the passion is gone does the drive lessen or go away? Are you going to be faced with a student who simple drags through a “second choice” school only to come out bitter and discouraged. It is a very tough choice and one I have no answer for. Just food for thought.</p>
<p>I don’t envy anyone making these decisions, the reson there are so many responses is that Jolynne Smith is right. I do believe you can bloom where you are planted. It also depends on how you measure sucess/happiness. etc… Everyone has a diffentent value system.</p>
<p>D just decided on “the more expensive school.” She turned down an honors (near full-tuition) scholarship at another school that I was hoping she’d take. She was offered a very good scholarship at her choice school, but it will still cost about $7000/year more to go there. However, in her situation, H and I agree that the school she has chosen is a MUCH better fit for her. Now, if the difference were 15-20K/year that would be another story. . . (We will not have to borrow money. We can pay for most of our kids’ educations and the kids will pay about 10-20%–whatever they make in high school and summer jobs).</p>
<p>Does anyone have any experience with making the decision to go to the “less expensive, less prestigious” school and then their S or D not being able to maintain the GPA required to keep the scholarship? Then the savings only applies for the first year and makes the difference in cost not as much of a factor. Then your S/D is at the “lesser school” and the cost might be virtually the same without the scholarship.</p>
<p>Of course, who could predict this would happen. The thought has crossed my mind, however, because some of the GPA requirements seem tough.</p>
<p>yes, collegeshopping, that question has been lurking in my mind too. But, downtoearth makes a good point.</p>
<p>Did we really do this 25 years ago? Did we have all of these choices when we were going through it? Did our parents worry themselves about “fit” for us? How many schools did we all apply to back in the day? </p>
<p>What a complicated society we have become!</p>
<p>Depending on child’s interests, summer jobs can really help with money. I think my S averaged $10,000 for each. Jobs during the year paid for almost all his expenses.</p>
<p>$10,000 for a summer job? Wow! What did he do?</p>
<p>Yes, I am amazed at that number, too!</p>
<p>The son of a friend made that much money during one summer selling alarm systems and services door to door.</p>
<p>
Have not experienced it … but I do fear it. Each of our kids is very different and I believe this changes the college choices that might work best for them. My oldest is incredibly self-motivated and disciplined … she will make the best out of any education environment she might enter. My second tends to cruise with the middle of the pack … his grades and test scores will not be as high in HS even though he is probably potentially an equivalent student to my oldest … somewhat ironically I think going to a school with better students is more important for him; the norm will be to work pretty hard instead of starting to party mid-week. </p>
<p>Each kid is different and for some particular environments may be more likely to help them grow the most.</p>