<p>While it is very nice that DD got into a top school, paying for it is not fun, even with a very very generous need based aid package.</p>
<p>With a good ACT score, a nice GPA and good balance of E/C, DS is a very competitive HS junior. As we have started to discuss about college, the $$ is my #1 concern. </p>
<p>One of the suggestions was that applying to lower tier school is a sure way to get merit $$. My question to the more experieced parents is: is this a myth or true?</p>
<p>Our DD was a strong competitive student, with even more plus than DS at this stage. Out of the 4 merit aid given schools she got in, she did not get even one red penny merit aid. So, our experiences was that a strong student going to a lower tier school does not improve your odds of getting merit $$. </p>
<p>You asked myth or true…in our experience, definitely TRUE…top factors for merit aid:
(maybe not 5 but others can chime in)…also, only applies to privates IMO</p>
<p>1)GPA/class rank: this totally depends on which school you are talking about
2) standardized test scores,usually SAT/ACT not SATII’s
3) subjective stuff: EC’s, community service, etc.</p>
<p>Consider lower tier anywhere from approx #30-50 in USNWR and small LAC’s that are possible even not on the radar screen…if you want specific schools where merit aid happens to be excellent, there is a thread started somewhere else on CC for that.</p>
<p>Agree with Rodney, this was our experience in '06. The only other thing I would add is that my D’s applications were well thought out and tailored to each college. She did not treat them as safety or fall back schools. We visited each one and applied by any priority deadline.</p>
<p>She accepted a full ride to a top 50 school and went for three semesters and then transferred to what had always been her dream school -who offered very little financial aid when she applied in '06. (And they haven’t offered much since she has been there.)
She is much happier and feels that she fits in better with the other students.</p>
<p>Remember, the colleges are essentially buying your kids stats with these big scholarships. We discussed with my D when she went to the first school that she would be at the top of the student body academically, and this did prove to be true.</p>
<p>Some schools are statistics driven and offer aid based on an in-house formula using data like test scores and GPA. Other schools weed using the hard data and then hand pick the applicants they want. Why a school wants a particular applicant varies – augmenting the class demographics, encouraging an applicant with a specific passion that a department desires – something the committee sees and wants to have in their freshman class. Your experience with a strong student applying to a lower tier school and not offered merit aid may be because the committee perceived the student was applying there for aid rather than because the school and the student complement one another.</p>
<p>The lower tier schools do not really tend to have more merit dollars. They usually have less. However, it is easier to stand out from the average student there as their score ranges and standards are lower than the competitive schools. Because these schools want the upper crust students too, they are willing to pay for them.</p>
<p>If you are looking for merit money from any of the schools that offer such scholarships that are selective, the pool of students that get such money is competitive. It is harder to get a high dollar merit award from these schools since there are many students that have good stats. </p>
<p>Students have a good chance for merit money if they are in that percentage of merit money given. If you look up the percent of kids getting merit awards, and the average award is say $5000, and 10% of the kids get awards, if your child is in the upper 10% of the applicant pool, he is likely to get an award. If he is in the upper 1% of that pool, he would probably get one of the higher awards, rather than the average $5000. If the student has other attributes that are desirable to the school, geographics, gender, major in a dept that the school wants developed, etc, the chances of the award and higher amounts go up. There are some awards that are specifically stipulated as well.</p>
<p>My second son got a lot of merit awards, but none over $5000 and most significantly below that which was not a lot of help on a $50K per year cost. My current college freshman did get some significant offers, but he did go “against the grain” in picking schools and had very high SAT scores. My oldest who was an athlete got only one athletic/merit offer, because he aimed high for his academic profile. His reward was entry to the school, never mind any money. Yet he was well in the midstream of stats of those schools where he applied.</p>
<p>If I understand these comments right - there are schools who put a hard number on merit $$ - Full ride for 34 ACT and top 2%; there are schools who give a qualifying line then hand pick awards. </p>
<p>Well, got some work to do then. Got to find a full ride. </p>
<p>BTW, the bumper sticker thing is way over rated. We visited DD’s school twice and could not afford to buy one single bumper sticker.</p>
<p>Dad II…here’s an example. With your son’s stats as you report them…it is my opinion that he would be a contender for the McNair Scholarship at University of South Carolina-Columbia. USC-Columbia is, in my opinion, a rising star amongst the southern flagship universities. The McNair is a large scholarship and also includes a reduction to instate tuition. It includes a laptop computer as well. In addition, McNair Scholarship recipients are also honors college students at the university and get priority registration, housing and the like (even better parking spaces for cars, if they have them). The school also allows “stacking” of scholarships up to the cost of attendance. So…your kid could get the McNair, and if he received another scholarship (outside or departmental) he would be able to accept them all up to the cost of attendance at the school. This university has many great programs. It was my DD’s second choice school and we would have been very proud had she enrolled there. She received an McKissick Scholarship ($2000 per year with a reduction to the instate rate of tuition) that would have reduced her cost of attendance to about $10,000 per year. The McNair is a much larger award.</p>
<p>The McNair does require the completion of the honors college application which is the most comprehensive I’ve seen at any school. It took my daughter a LONG time to complete that form…and it asks for quite a variety of information about the applicants.</p>
<p>If your son is selected as a McNair finalist, he is flown down (at their expense) for a interview weekend on campus. Being a finalist also guarantees you a mighty decent scholarship.</p>
<p>thumper1, thank you for the suggestion. However, you probably missed my point - paying 10K a year is too much for us. It is preferable to pay 0 and get a stipend - such as the OSU’s presidential. Since DD did not get one, I see it is very difficult for DS to get one.</p>
<p>I am going to spend some time to find those schools who give a hard qualifying line. As long as your stats meets the line, you get the $$.</p>
<p>DadII – I don’t really think your D was applying to ANY lower tier schools – I don’t consider Wash U or Vanderbilt or Emory to be lower tier, and merit aid at those schools is highly competitive. You need to go down further, and you need to spend some time on the school’s website to see what’s available.
Just to pick one school I know a little about: Saint Louis University, a beautiful and very good Jesuit school in (where else?) St. Louis. Ranked in the 70s on USNews, I think.<br>
They give automatic merit money for certain ACTs (money ranges from 3,000 to 15,000 a year.) For very high kids, though, you would look into their special scholarship programs that require separate applications and can award half ride or full ride.
Look for schools where S’s ACT is above the 75th percentile.</p>
<p>Dad II - just because your D’s stats were slightly higher than your son’s, it doesn’t mean that he won’t get the merit money just because she didn’t. You’ll be dealing with an entirely different pool of applicants, plus he may have something to offer a school that she did not (different instrument, different sport, something…).</p>
<p>On merit aid, you usually won’t find a huge amount at public universities, but there are a lot of privates that give it. However, it is not usually a full ride and generally varies from 1/8 to 1/2 (or 3/4) tuition (and thus does not apply to any other costs. A lot of you privates are basically trying to bring their costs through merit aid for better students to something within range of the public university in their state because they draw a lot of students from in-state and consider their competition to be the public univeristy. Many of those colleges readily publish on their sites the formulas they use which automatically result in a level of merit aid and it is usually based on a combination of GPA and test score. A few of only many examples that use formulas to look at include UMiami, Oglethorpe, DePauw. Full rides are possible at some but don’t expect to find many getting those.</p>
<p>Leadership, leadership, leadership… most schools are looking for academic powerhouses with leadership potential. Just stats doesn’t cut it, except for some of the “automatic” scholarships at the big public schools.</p>
<p>And DAD II… YOU missed MY point. My DD got the Mckissick which would have required that $10,000 a year. If you read my post, you will see that I also added that the McNair is a MUCH LARGER award. It covers a larger amount of the cost of attendance.</p>
<p>Most “automatic” scholarships (those awarded for scores/GPA) are for tuition only. They are not for full cost of attendance. Those scholarships typically require an additional application, and interview. The Pogue at UNC-Chapel Hill is another one. The Trustee Scholarship at Boston University is another (although I think that is full tuition only). You aren’t going to find too many scholarships out there that cover the full cost of attendance.</p>
<p>But at a place like U of South Carolina where you son could stack scholarships, he could possibly cover his room/board expenses with additional scholarships above and beyond the McNair.</p>
<p>Look at momfromtexas’s thread on full ride scholarships if that is what you are seeking. You may also look at the more competitive full scholarships that are out there, both the ones that are pretty much guaranteed by stats and those where the student has to apply. Curmudgeon’s daughter has the Belling(something) scholarship at Rhodes, Pitt has the Chancellor’s scholarship. Some of those scholarships do require an intensive effort including interviews as well as extra paperwork. It’s wise to start now, as some have earlier deadlines than that of the app. Good luck, and keep us posted.</p>
<p>Here you go Dad II…this is right from the USC-Columbia website. McNair Finalists get $15000 per year, and finalists get $11,000 per year. PLUS they get the instate tuition rate. The cost of attendance at USC-Columbia for instate students is NOT very high…I’m not sure it even reaches $15,000 per year for instate. This is an excellent scholarship that has the potential to cover MOST costs of attendance. Go to their website and read yourself. </p>
<p>Forty out-of-state students with strong academic records who are leaders in their high schools and communities will be selected as McNair Scholar Finalists. Of these finalists, 20 students will be chosen to receive the McNair Scholars Award. Typical candidates have excellent grades on a strong high-school curriculum and present average SAT scores over 1300 on critical reading and math sections combined (or ACT composite score of 29). Finalists receive awards of $44,000 ($11,000 per year), and McNair Scholars receive awards of $60,000 ($15,000 per year). These awards are renewable for up to three years as long as you maintain at least a B average. To apply for this scholarship, both an application for general University admissions and a University Honors College and Scholarship Application must be received by the Office of Undergraduate Admissions. The postmark deadline for the applications is November 15. All nonresidents students receiving this scholarship receive a reduced tuition benefit as well.</p>
<p>Unfortunately this is quite a bit less than an instate public university.</p>
<p>When families either because they didn’t really anticipate that their children would attempt to attend college, or because of a run of bad luck and planning, high medical bills, unemployment or bankruptcies, didn’t adequately put aside money and aren’t able to contribute to financial costs from current or anticipated future income, they still have a few choices to help their children continue their education.</p>
<p>Students can and should be expected to take out loans on their behalf- $20,000 upon graduation of ( hopefully) subsidized loans is reasonable,</p>
<p>Students can earn at least three or four thousand minimum summers to put toward tuition. Students can also pay for school year expenses with a work study job.
If your EFC is lower than the $10,000 you can’t afford to pay, work study money should be available.
Additionally- many students use credits from classes taken in high school, either through AP testing to place out of required courses, or by concurrently taking college credits, which can save time and money when they get to university- this is usually limited to schools in their state/area.</p>
<p>In the past- some schools have had deep pockets and were able to give merit aid to students that they particulary wanted to attract- however- since the market decline is affecting everyone, not just parents 401Ks, that isn’t something I would count on & I would be especially alert for colleges that give a good package the first year with grants, but convert those grants to loans for the remaining three years.</p>
<p>Your son’s intended major can also make a difference. When we visited one of my son’s prospective schools, we found out about a full-ride scholarship that was only available to students majoring in one specific department. A wealthy alumnus - who graduated from that department - had donated a huge sum of money for this purpose.</p>
<p>This scholarship doesn’t show up online on the university’s scholarships page, which simply mentions “departmental scholarships - amounts vary.” But it is a very good opportunity for a student who plans to major in that area.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how one finds out about these, except by checking with the individual departments of the schools.</p>
<p>DadII…the answer to your original question is that it is true and not a myth. The problem is that what you call “lower tier” in the case of your D, were still VERY VERY competitive and selective colleges where to earn a merit award is just not that likely. In order to earn a merit award, you need to go some tiers down from their qualifications where your kid is gonna be at the top of the heap of applicants and not another strong applicant along with the others. A kid whose SATs, GPA, extracurriculars, leadership, achievements and talents stand out, has a chance at a merit award if they are above the other applicants. That is unlikely at a school where MOST applicants have such a profile. You have to go lower than the schools your son may have gotten into otherwise at full freight. At highly selective schools, most applicants have “merit”! </p>
<p>My oldest D applied to very selective schools, though had a range of reach, match, safeties on her list. Out of her 8 colleges, only 2 even offer merit aid as many very selective colleges (ie. Ivies and the like) do not give merit aid. She was also a need based aid applicant and got need based aid at every school. The two schools on her list that offered merit aid, gave some to her. One was her safety school where she won a large scholarship: Lehigh. But she was likely a top candidate there (thus it was her safety). The other one that offered merit aid was Smith, which is not as selective as the other schools she applied to. She went to Brown which doesn’t give merit aid but did offer nice need based aid. </p>
<p>My other kid applied to schools for a specialized degree that is HIGHLY competitive (lower admit rates than the Ivy League!). She won scholarships at them all. She is attending NYU/Tisch where she won a substantial four year scholarship and is continuing to receive other merit scholarships even this year, her fourth year there. But she is a leader and her academic stats were strong and she is talented, I suppose. She didn’t try for Ivies as they don’t have her specialized degree program she was seeking.</p>
<p>But the point is, scholarships can be had if you are a top applicant on the pile and in order to make that happen, you often have to go down a tier or two from where you are qualified to get in and where the other applicants are just as strong as you are. The schools your D applied to such as Wash U, Vanderbilt, and Emory have a slew of highly qualified applicants and so standing out to win a handful of merit scholarships is that much harder. If you are TRULY chasing merit aid, you need to do what curmudgeon’s D did…be willing to go to a fine school a few tiers down. She is attending Rhodes but was admitted to Yale. She got a mighty fine scholarship at Rhodes as I am sure she stood out there. At Yale, which doesn’t even give merit aid, she was one of many standouts.</p>