More Realistic Schools for Prospective Med School Applicant

College Search & Selection
1

My D who graduates in 2019 wants to attend a more prestigious school such as USC, UCLA or UW but after seeing various write-ups in CC I have come to realize my D needs to produce a very high GPA as well as MCAT to have a chance at medical school. I was hoping to solicit some input for a more realistic college search based on her credentials. We live in Western PA.

WGPA 4.35 UWGPA 3.95 - SAT 1320 M-670 E-650 - Top 15% in graduating class but might squeeze into top 10%
NHS
EC - Candy Striper approx 180 hrs year, varsity tennis, teaches dance,

We currently have saved roughly $2000,000 for her education and would like to preserve as much as possible for medical school. Any thoughts on schools were she may be in the 75% percentile and possibly get some merit aid would be great.

Thanks,

2

Well UCLA or any CA UC would be full fees at $65K/year with little to no FA since she is OOS. She should look for good schools in your home state that are affordable.

3

Has your daughter bought in to this realization? If not, I would focus on getting her to recognize what you have figured out. Otherwise, whatever schools you suggest will be met with resistance and she’ll be unwilling to seek out good fits for herself.

If she is drawn to bigger universities, look for ones where she will qualify for the honors college…giving her better access to professors and research opportunities.

4

Pittsburgh, Penn State, or Temple?

5

Otterma - My daughter is starting to understand the finances required for medical school and making money currently saved last as long as possible. What I didn’t realize at the beginning of this process that she shouldn’t try to get into “big name” schools as a means to get into medical schools so she previously visited UCLA, Loyola Marymount, USC etc… I am just glad we still have time to realign our strategy.

We did already visit Pitt but she wasn’t real happy with the layout of the campus. I will set up visits to Penn State & Temple. Any other LAC’s I should look at as well?

Thanks,
Sean

6

How do you expect private LACs to compare price-wise, based on your financial aid situation (check net price calculators on college web sites)?

Some public LACs are inexpensive even for out-of-state students (e.g. Truman State, University of Minnesota - Morris), though they may be in remote areas that make it harder to travel to medical school interviews.

7

Congratulations on her hard work and success!

I’m not an expert at all on CA schools, but it is my understanding that UCs can be very tough for med school aspirants, especially OOS ones. And, as noted above, financial aid is very unlikely at the UCs for an OOS student. I believe UW too.

USC, UCLA, and UW (Seattle) are all urban schools and all in the West. All are large schools. They are all terrific schools. So some others that might meet some of these criteria, including being excellent schools for pre-med students. These are not “easy” schools. None are. There will be many, many excellent students at all of them. And they are places where a bright, hard-working student can do well, and can go on to med school.

Urban: Case Western Reserve (CWRU, “Crew”), Rhodes College, and Macalester. Case is a top research university with a top research hospital/med school immediately adjacent to campus. It gives strong merit aid. Go to the Rhodes website and explore a little. It’s a beautiful, top-notch LAC. Macalester is very similar, with colder weather. Also University of Rochester, which is an excellent national research university, strong in science, including medical fields. Creighton, in Omaha, is right next to downtown and the Old Market restaurant/bar district. The University of Nebraska Medical Center is close to campus, so great internship/shadowing/etc. opportunities are nearby.

West: Check out Santa Clara University (not sure about financial aid there; you could run the NPC). Arizona and Arizona State might be worth researching. Some of the Colorado schools are incredible. I don’t think they are as generous with aid.

Large: Some other public flagships where she might get aid: University of Kansas. I think she’d qualify for merit aid; you can easily research that. Lawrence is a terrific college town. Nebraska and Iowa both have urban campuses. I think she might also be eligible for aid at these schools. University of Minnesota is large and urban.

Some tips for pre-med students:

Go to class–no substitute for that.

Get tutors Day 1 for lower-level science classes. Students feel like this is a sign of weakness. Actually it’s a sign of strength. A pre-med advisor at a top national university told the pre-med sessions we attended there that this is one of the keys to success. Almost all the students who had made A’s in their organic chemistry class had done this. It’s better than waiting until a student bombs the first test. You’ve already developed a schedule and relationship with a tutor when everyone else is scrambling.

You don’t have to major in a science. You just need to take enough to be prepared for MCATs.

Med schools now look for lots of service hours, including lots in medical-related areas. So start with this early in a college career.

Good luck, have fun with the process, try to make it about exploring and finding a good fit!

8

Washington & Jefferson has very good placement into med school. And your daughter would likely do very well with merit.

9

you say you have come to realize the crucial importance of MCAT and GPA, but has your daughter bought in yet? Or is she still pining to attend a college that will impress her friends?

Any college in the country is capable of teaching the lower-division courses tested on the MCAT. The differentiators are going to be how hard she works, whether she gets to know some profs for personal recs, her continued participation in volunteer work related to medicine. One drawback of a less selective college may be the peer pressure to not take grades or class too seriously, but a student with a goal can suceed just about anywhere. You may have inexpensive in-state options. A larger public may not come with the built-in personal attention of a LAC but every prof holds office hours and the honors program introduces one to fellow strong students (often with their own dorm and dedicated advisors). My advice would be to have her live away at school instead of commuting; the college years are a time of growth in more areas than just academic.

You and your daughter can learn what it takes to get into med school by reading thru the very informative https://www.rhodes.edu/sites/default/files/PreMed_Essentials.pdf. There is also a good handbook at https://www.amherst.edu/campuslife/careers/gradstudy/health/guide and no doubt many other websites, as well as books.

10

Look up Colleges That Change Lives (ctcl dot org) and you will find a bunch of gems for pre-med. Some are right in your neighborhood but she will be able to find schools all over the country on the list: Agnes Scott, St. Olaf, and Lawrence are three I know of that might be good to research.

11

Penn State if Schreyer - check out the tumbler by Afrenchie36 for a blueprint. Expect high costs even instate and don’t do the ‘premed major’ - real pre-meds are supposed to be able to handle pre-med pre-requisites and a major. Look into Biological Anthropology (major) and the biomedical ethics minor.
Pitt, obviously, especially if no Schreyer.
Temple honors.
Case Western may be a good pick.
Dickinson, Muhlenberg, the women’s colleges including Agnes Scott, Skidmore, St Lawrence, ConnColl, St Olaf.

UCs are a terrible choice for oos pre-meds -the pre-med path is a bloodbath and there are no scholarships.
In LA, what about LMU-LA or Oxy?

She should retake the SAT and try to get to 1350for more choices.

12

She will need to go to a school where there is no grade deflation, where she can attain a high GPA, where there is a strong preprofessional program with advisors, where she can take all med school prerequisites, where there is a higher than national average of acceptance into med school. Those schools will offer research opportunities. Med schools also like to see a well rounded candidate with proven leadership skills. A large number of LAC’s will fit the description as well as offer merit award. Consider taking an ACT practice test to see how she scores. Read up on the CTCL schools, (many offer merit aid and she will be in the 75%) and get a Fiske Guide to Colleges. Find colleges that interest her and check to see the percentage rate of acceptance into med school.

13

Let me suggest Belmont University in Nashville, TN. A former babysitter for my kids went there to study nursing (Belmont has a good nursing program); she realized that she was more interested in going to medical school, and, after graduating from Belmont with (you guessed it) a high GPA and great MCAT scores, got into medical school at Wake Forest University, and is now a practicing physician.

The other kids (with different majors) I know who have gone to Belmont have loved it.

14

Pennsylvania is positively crawling with lovely LACs where she might land some merit aid, and where she will be well-prepared for med school. Pay a few quick visits to Muhlenberg/Gettysburg/Juniata/Delaware Valley/etc.

And then take your smart, driven, daughter to Bryn Mawr. She might like that place.

15

An advantage to Bryn Mawr is that it’s part of a consortium so while the college itself is small, it’s numbers more than double if you add Haverford (nearby).

16

Muhlenberg is always at the top of the list for pre-med kids in our area. Another vote for Washington & Jefferson - pick up a Fiske guide; it mentions both in regards to pre-med studies.

17

If you want to go pre-med then think about:

  1. The cheapest reasonable college so you/your parents can use the money for med school
  2. The college needs to prepare you for MCATs but still allow you to get a good GPA
  3. Access to volunteering opportunities (e.g., near a hospital)
  4. Success in graduates getting into med school
  5. Options if you don’t go to med school
18

I would recommend against using this as a measure, at least without a fair amount of digging to figure out why their rate differs.

Any school with a premed committee can set its admit rate to anything it wants by declining to recommend lower-scoring students (who consequently will not bother to apply since rejection is certain). Your chances of admission are 1 out of 3? Sorry, no positive letter for you.

And on the other side of the coin, it is no surprise the superstar kids who have great scores/grades/ECs and get into schools like Stanford and Amherst continue to do well when compared against the national competition for med school. Their admit rate may be more a matter of turning gold into gold than value added.

19

I take it you mean $200K? Especially if the funds are in your child’s name, that level of savings may eliminate your chances for need-based financial aid. To verify, run the online net price calculators on any colleges that interest you.

Assuming you aren’t eligible for need-based aid, then your best remaining cost-management strategy probably is either to focus on relatively low-cost in-state public colleges, or on colleges that are likely to offer enough merit scholarship money to help you hit your net price target. Many CC threads have covered merit scholarships.
http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/
http://competitivefulltuition.yolasite.com/

20

Another vote for Muhlenberg. My friend (a Doc) sent his son here over Pitt and UMich for pre-Med. The student is a Junior now and good grades have been fairly easy to come by. My D1 attended Pitt and did indicate a high level of competitiveness amongst pre-Med students there. She is an M3 at Pitt Med now.