Most overrated/underrated school on the USNWR?

College Search & Selection
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<p>Also, keep in mind what started my comments. The following quip:</p>

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The SUNY system, for instance, is a failure in many, many ways, to the point where comparing it to most regional privates (and think about the privates in the NE!) is ludicrous. Of course there are exceptions, but State School == loser school mentality is a strong regional bias.

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<p>And my rejoinder was that this is ridiculous. There are plenty of students coming out of the SUNY system that are just as qualified as 'regional' privates in the Northeast. Look, I work with colleagues educated at Princeton, Penn, Cornell, Chicago, Colgate Rochester, Canisius, Oho State, SUNY-Buffalo, SUNY-Geneseo, and SUNY-Binghamton. The real world is focused on results rather than 'prestige', believe it or not.</p>

262

<p>Sakky, </p>

<p>Believe it or not, 2001-2002 are watershed years for Chicago. It's after 2001-2002 that I expect the data to change, because it's after 2001-2002 that significant changes to the school began to take place.</p>

<p>Why admit students who showed smoke signals? Finances, is my guess. The university increased its size over a relatively short time span when they were in financial trouble and they were just looking for paying customers more than anything. Some of those "seatpayers" could have been the ones who had trouble graduating.</p>

<p>So, in the past, difficulty of admission < difficulty of graduation.</p>

<p>But now, in 2008 and 2009, I think difficulty of graduation< difficulty of admission. If we're just talking about walking across the podium graduation. That's something that's not reflected by the 2001 data.</p>

<p>And while yes, the degree is nice, I don't know how I feel about a university just graduating people if they are truly mucking around. It decreases the value of the degree in some ways, and while it's economically important to have a degree, the fact that you didn't have to lift a proverbial finger for it is kind of upsetting to the hard workers, no?</p>

<p>There are a lot of risks that come with putting down a deposit at a school. One is not graduating, and another more immediate concern is not enjoying the school. Somewhere along the line I decided that Chicago was the school most likely to make me happy and that my deposit there was worth the risks. I thought that the "risk-averse" options, by your definition, weren't the best college choices for me. I think other students come to similar conclusions, because there has to be <em>some</em> reason they choose Chicago, despite risks of not graduating or even not liking it.</p>

<p>In my own experience, people have reacted either neutrally or positively where I tell them where I attend. If Chicago has a reputation among the academics for being obnoxious, then I think it's easy for that non-obnoxious individual to overturn that reputation. I have gotten a few, "Gee, you're not as weird as I thought Chicago kids were supposed to be!" from peers, which I guess is a backhanded compliment....</p>

<p>gratatgrad--</p>

<p>What I meant to say was that knowing where each of these schools place exactly is about as trivial in the Whole Wide World of Things that I think Responsible Adults Should Be Aware Of as baseball standings are. We don't think of things that way because we're on a college-related discussion board where everybody here is sensitive to ranks and the like, but in the world, does it REALLY matter?</p>

263

<p>


Personally I think education is a lot more important than baseball -- and I'm a big Cubs fan. But to me, at least, people should be aware of which universities are good and which aren't.</p>

<p>A friend of mine attends Dartmouth. He told me a story about going to a doctor for a routine checkup. The doctor asked him where he attends school, and of course my friend replied. The doctor had not ever heard of a school called "Dartmouth" in his entire life.</p>

<p>That doesn't make you call someone's education into question?</p>

264

<p>Personally, not really. Where is the doctor from? Where did he go to undergraduate, med school, residency? It's possible that he never crossed paths with a Dartmouth graduate and it's possible that he was never interested in elite colleges, though the doctor is bright enough to make it through med school and all that jazz.</p>

<p>What I've realized is that outside of a few areas in the country, most people don't really care that much about elite schools. Who am I to say that's a "shame?" That doctor knows a lot more about how to help humans than I do.</p>

265

<p>
[quote]
A friend of mine attends Dartmouth. He told me a story about going to a doctor for a routine checkup. The doctor asked him where he attends school, and of course my friend replied. The doctor had not ever heard of a school called "Dartmouth" in his entire life.

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<p>That's why Bescraze moved the goal post once again. "General population" was changed to "educated crowd" which became "top techs/IB recruiters"; that's like less than 0.01% of the population? So much for "nataional" reputation. HYP, yes. Schools like Brown? Not really and it's no more prestigious than schools like JHU, Chicago, Northwestern, or WashU (according to JP Morgan website, it holds more events at Chicago/Northwestern than Brown (resume drop only)) .</p>

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What I've realized is that outside of a few areas in the country, most people don't really care that much about elite schools. Who am I to say that's a "shame?" That doctor knows a lot more about how to help humans than I do.

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Well said!</p>

266

<p>
[quote]
Personally I think education is a lot more important than baseball -- and I'm a big Cubs fan. But to me, at least, people should be aware of which universities are good and which aren't.</p>

<p>A friend of mine attends Dartmouth. He told me a story about going to a doctor for a routine checkup. The doctor asked him where he attends school, and of course my friend replied. The doctor had not ever heard of a school called "Dartmouth" in his entire life.</p>

<p>That doesn't make you call someone's education into question?

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<p>"Call someone's education into question"?? There are plenty of topics that people consider common knowledge -- usually in comparison per the circumstances under which they've been raised, and some are much more valid than others. My parents don't understand -- if there is something to understand -- "the importance of going to Stanford". </p>

<p>While that's a more visual example than most, I would hold that this is very common with many different "tier 1" schools around the country. For you to trivialize whatever education "***" has received because they don't share your "extensive" knowledge of universities at the highest tier is absolute idiocy.</p>

<p>At best, this is little more than elitism.</p>

267

<p>You're joking, right? It's crap like this that's going to make me stop visiting this site altogether. </p>

<p>Please, someone tell me gradatgrad was joking.</p>

268

<p>


I asked my friend these questions. He noticed the doctor's diplomas on the wall. The doc did his undergraduate at Canisius College and got his MD from SUNY Buffalo. </p>

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A UVA professor, ED Hirsch, wrote a book in 1987 called "Cultural Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know." Basically his hypothesis is that certain pieces of information are necessary to function fully in one's culture; writers of newspaper articles will assume their readers know certain things. New York City, for example. The Yankees, for another. The Mets. Babe Ruth. George Washington. Harvard University. </p>

<p>Like it or not, the name "Dartmouth" is on Hirsch's list of things culturally-literate people know. All other things equal, I would prefer a culturally literate doctor, and I won't apologize for it. Cultural literacy is synonymous with erudition and education, two qualities I prefer my doctors have in spades.</p>

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I would prefer a culturally literate doctor, and I won't apologize for it.I would prefer a culturally literate doctor, and I won't apologize for it.

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<p>I don't think you're understanding that nobody cares what you prefer.</p>

270

<p>
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For you to trivialize whatever education "***" has received because they don't share your "extensive" knowledge of universities at the highest tier is absolute idiocy.

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I don't think expecting a person who has spent nearly a decade in a university setting to know the name of one of America's leading universities is unreasonable. It's not like I'm saying this about Lake Forest, or even Pitzer, or schools of that ilk. </p>

<p>Yes, I expect a doctor to know the name of an Ivy League institution that's been around since 1769. Just like I expect him to know the name of the baseball team in Boston or the largest city in Illinois. Sue me?</p>

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Like it or not, the name "Dartmouth" is on Hirsch's list of things culturally-literate people know

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<p>Yes, because Hirsch is the authority on American culture, right?</p>

<p>I'll tell you this, from a culturally-literate American: Dartmouth isn't a must-know.</p>

272

<p>This is absurd. I think you should be more concerned with how medically qualified your doctor is, rather than how familiar he is with the names and locations of undergrad schools that YOU care about. I honestly can't believe you're trying to justify this. Next time I visit a physician, a lawyer, or ask a girl out on a date, I'm going to pull 'ole Ed Hirsch's book and quiz them... you know, to make sure they are qualified enough to associate with me. </p>

<p>Both you and your friend need to get over yourselves.</p>

273

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[quote]
For example, when I recently once wore my Cal cap to a party that was populated with mostly PhD economics students from Harvard and MIT, nobody recognized it even when I explained that the term 'Cal' was actually short for the "University of California at Berkeley", despite the fact that everybody there had obviously had at least heard of the state of California and Berkeley is clearly a top 5 economics school.

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<p>I've only learned that Cal is another name for Berkeley in the past year or so. Why would I know that, when I don't live in California? It's irrelevant to my everyday life. I know Berkeley's a fine school and I've visited the campus, but knowing that it's also called Cal is ... whatever, irrelevant to me.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Personally I think education is a lot more important than baseball -- and I'm a big Cubs fan. But to me, at least, people should be aware of which universities are good and which aren't.</p>

<p>A friend of mine attends Dartmouth. He told me a story about going to a doctor for a routine checkup. The doctor asked him where he attends school, and of course my friend replied. The doctor had not ever heard of a school called "Dartmouth" in his entire life.

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</p>

<p>Chew on this, gradatgrad! My dh is, like you and me, an NU grad, and is also a physician. I bet he couldn't name all the Ivies, at least not without prompting. And his sum total of knowledge about Dartmouth or Brown would be that they are excellent schools up in New England someplace --- where exactly, he'd have to look up, since he's never lived in New England and has no plans to. So what? It wasn't RELEVANT to his medical education which, like his undergrad, happened in the midwest. It's not RELEVANT to caring for and interacting with / relating to his patients who are middle-class Americans and for whom very few are striving to send their children to that level of institution. It's not RELEVANT to the nurses and receptionists he hires as an employer. It's not even RELEVANT at the teaching hospital where he's on staff, because what matters there is where someone was trained, not where they went undergrad! It would only become relevant if and when his own children would consider applying there. </p>

<p>Just because it's important to you, it should be important to everyone else? Yeah, *I could probably rattle off USNWR ratings because it's of interest to me -- but someone else not being able to doesn't make them uneducated or unworthy.</p>

275

<p>Dartmouth is overrated, UC Berkeley is underrated.</p>

276

<p>
[quote]
The doc did his undergraduate at Canisius College and got his MD from SUNY Buffalo.

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<p>Both fine schools.</p>

277

<p>
[quote]
A UVA professor, ED Hirsch, wrote a book in 1987 called "Cultural Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know." Basically his hypothesis is that certain pieces of information are necessary to function fully in one's culture; writers of newspaper articles will assume their readers know certain things. New York City, for example. The Yankees, for another. The Mets. Babe Ruth. George Washington. Harvard University. </p>

<p>Like it or not, the name "Dartmouth" is on Hirsch's list of things culturally-literate people know. All other things equal, I would prefer a culturally literate doctor, and I won't apologize for it. Cultural literacy is synonymous with erudition and education, two qualities I prefer my doctors have in spades.

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</p>

<p>This is the reason for your nonsensical claims?</p>

<p>You know, a few months back someone posted an article about an ivy league grad or equal not being able to speak to a "plumber" and I wrote it off as pure idiocy. </p>

<p>I'm not so sure anymore.</p>

278

<p>I think that I heard "Dartmouth", but who is ED Hirsch, and what is UVA?</p>

279

<p>Ivy</a> retardation - St. Petersburg Times</p>

<p>It's actually a pretty good acticle. I'm sure it doesn't apply to everyone, but it sure as hell has been my experience, and sees to manifest itself on CC.</p>

280

<p>
[quote]
I've only learned that Cal is another name for Berkeley in the past year or so. Why would I know that, when I don't live in California? It's irrelevant to my everyday life. I know Berkeley's a fine school and I've visited the campus, but knowing that it's also called Cal is ... whatever, irrelevant to me.

[/quote]

Hmmm...</p>

<p><em>Considers replacing "Cal" Alumni license plate frame for "UC Berkeley" Alumni frame</em> </p>

<p>;)</p>