<p>What do you think the top 10 schools are, in terms of prestige, as viewed by recruiters at a top investment banks and hedge funds? Also, do you think such a list would encompass Georgetown? Thanks.</p>
<p>It doesn't make much since to ask for a list, and then ask for a specific school too.... Also, why randomly just Goldman Sachs????</p>
<p>I mention Goldman Sachs because its arguably the top investment bank. I also mention Georgetown because its the only non-ivy school I would personally transfer to.</p>
<p>The usual suspects. </p>
<p>And no, Georgetown would not be in the top 10. IMO.</p>
1 Like
<p>I worked and recruited at GS for over a decade. Your question reflects the lack of understanding of what I-banks are looking for in their hiring practices and how they go about achieving it. Prestige is nice, but it is overrated. </p>
<p>The most valuable asset that an I-bank has is its people and frankly, after a period of time on the job or with prior experience, the importance of your educational institution (particularly undergrad) diminishes rather rapidly. The real value of a degree from a Harvard or a Dartmouth or a Stanford is that it puts you in position to interview for these highly coveted jobs, but it definitely does not make it an automatic that you will get hired. You, the individual, have to prove yourself and make a compelling presentation of why the bank would benefit from your presence. They won't hire you just because you went to an Ivy League school and depending on the arrogance that you bring to the interview, this might just get you shut out. In fact, if a student from a less acclaimed program, eg, Penn State (Schreyer or otherwise), is able to get into the interview process and shows that he/she can hold his/her own, then this person becomes very appealing as these banks do like to have broad representation in their ranks rather than just a total concentration of Ivy League grads. This is only good business and follows the same logic as the diversity arguments on college campuses. Of course, the key is that you be smart and accomplished because without this, it does not matter where you went to school (or what color you are). </p>
<p>One clear benefit, however, of an Ivy League degree (or some other "prestigious" institution) is that the system uses these schools as pre-screeners and thus readily accepts that the candidate is smart (at least until proven otherwise) and more readily gives them access to the interview process. This is the brand value of the school, but it is good for only the first 5-10 miinutes of your interviewing process and, after that, you're on your own. If you don't have the goods, an decent interviewer will expose this and your school becomes truly irrelevant. </p>
<p>A second benefit of a "prestigious" degree is that there frequently is an already existing universe of graduates from your university working for the bank or hedge fund. These individuals can become excellent advocates for others coming out of these schools and thus, they can grease the wheels for your consideration and, hopefully, help you get a offer of employment. </p>
<p>A third benefit of the "prestigious" degree is the business/social network that it can give you in major financial centers like New York, London, Tokyo, etc. as well as in some more parochial regional environments. If you can effectively work this network, then the professional enhancements can be large, but again, the key is that the individual must be qualifed, smart, effective, driven, able to work with a variety of people, etc. While many Ivy Leaguers have these qualities, so do many, many others (even-wow- kids who go to public schools!!!! :) ) and the folks hiring on Wall Street know this. </p>
<p>So my advice would be to not get overly preoccupied with prestige, but rather to focus on the institution(s) where you hope to have the best personal experience (academic, social, extra-curricular, etc). If you find and pursue your passions at a high level while you are in college and you can effectively communicate that in an interview, then this is far more important than whether you attended the "right" school.</p>
<p>And fwiw, Georgetown would be fine. If you like it or any other school more than an Ivy, don't make the mistake of choosing the Ivy just because of higher name recognition and prestige. There are plenty of great schools and really smart kids out there who don't attend a Ivy League school.</p>
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What do you think the top 10 schools are, in terms of prestige, as viewed by recruiters at a top investment banks and hedge funds? Also, do you think such a list would encompass Georgetown? Thanks.
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<p>I highly doubt that a top 10 list would include Georgetown, simply because I think we can easily come up with at least 10 schools that are higher than Georgetown. For example, I suspect that all 8 Ivies, Stanford, and MIT would be higher regarded thant Georgetown is. And that's not even talking about some of the other schools out there. </p>
<p>Furthermore, while Goldman Sachs is the most prestigious investment bank out there, many (probably most) top people who want to enter finance no longer prefer investment banking, as private equity and hedge funds are now often times considered the employers of choice. Firms like KKR, Texas Pacific Group, Blackstone, Providence Equity Partners, Warburg Pincus, etc. are where the truly best people want to go. The pay is better, the quality of life is better (i.e. fewer hours than IB), you have greater power, and also probably greater prestige (among those who know the field). In fact, many people at Harvard Business School now say that investment banking is a second-choice position for those who weren't good enough to get a private equity offer, or who couldn't wait for it to materialize (as these jobs are very irregular in terms of when they hire). Now obviously that's a generalization that doesn't hold in all cases. But the point is, there are firms out there that are considered better than GS.</p>
<p>Of course, these firms hire undergrads only extremely rarely. So I wouldn't hold my breath hoping to get into one of these firms right out of college.</p>
<p>A friend of mine was offered an interview by GS last May when he was about to graduate, and is now working there in NYC at an impressive starting salary, and he went to.....Villanova.</p>
<p>I know people who made GS from non-Ivys.. Fordham is the Bronx sends a few to GS every year, Villanova sends a few , lots of good non-Ivys send a few.</p>
<p>I agree with Sakky that private equity is the new king of the hill on Wall Street. Many question how sustainable this is given the natural cyclicality of the markets and the illiquidity of the asset class. Nonetheless, private equity fund managers (and to a lesser extent their hedge fund cousins) currently wield huge power in the financial industry and are a major influence on the current M&A landscape. My guess, however, is that when the cycle turns, the I-banks will come back in vogue at places like HBS as the jobs just won't be there in the private equity world. </p>
<p>I also agree with Sakky's statement that undergrads rarely get the opportunities to work in private equity although this is less true for hedge fund work. If you choose to pursue the private equity and/or hedge areas, these funds are looking for are individuals that have one of two skills and preferably both: 1) stong financial engineering and analytical skills developed after working for several years on the Street or in a high powered finance office for a major corporation; or 2) someone with direct operating experience in an economic sector in which the fund makes investments. </p>
<p>The financial engineering types are a dime a dozen and generally come from the I-bank analyst programs and then from the top tier of the MBA/law school ranks. I don't mean to belittle these folks as some truly brilliant people went this route and presently run many of the most prominent private equity and hedge funds in the country. The sector specialty types come from a much broader universe of jobs across the US and international economy. These people have direct operating experience, knowledge and understanding of the products and markets in important industries. They then must be able to translate this knowledge across a broader swath of companies in a search for investment value/opportunities. Frequently, this second type comes from the less prestigious undergrad experiences, eg, someone from a chemical engineering background at Wisconsin vs someone with a finance degree from Wharton. The finance types might be very, very smart, but you can't ignore the value that the direct business experience types bring to the equation. </p>
<p>Finally, re schools and particularly re undergrad, I would not get too caught up in the prestige thing as it applies to Wall Street. While it is a fact that an awful lot of enormously talented people attend Ivy and Ivy-like institutions, there are also many others who do not and who can certainly find a place on Wall Street and even in the private equity world. Harvard on your resume may make it easier for you to get an interview or perhaps even your first job, but the fact is that you will be judged by your performance on the job and where you attended college will quickly be forgotten. So choose your school for the right reasons-find a school that fits you and where you can have the best undergraduate experience for you. If that means somewhere other than the Ivy League, then don't be intimated by all the hype and follow your instincts.</p>
<p>(i have a lot of time on my hands while in bed with bronchitis)
my very unscientific method: searching the new york city network for people who work at goldman sachs:</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 28
Columbia 26
Harvard 24</p>
<p>Princeton 17
Duke 16
Cornell 16</p>
<p>Georgetown 13
Yale 12
MIT 10</p>
<p>Carnegie Mellon 8
New York University 8
Brown 7
Stanford 7</p>
<p>Boston College 6
Lehigh 6
University of Michigan 6<br>
University of Texas 6
Wellesley College 6</p>
<p>Vanderbilt 5
Brandeis 4
Dartmouth 4
Middlebury 4
Richmond 4</p>
<p>Amherst 3
Boston University 3
Bucknell 3
Colgate 3
Emory University 3
Indiana University 3
Northeastern 3
Notre Dame 3
RPI 3
Rutgers 3
Tufts 3
University of Maryland 3
WUSTL 3</p>
<p>Brooklyn Polytechnic 2
CUNY Baruch 2
George Washington University 2
Georgia Tech 2
Ithaca College 2
Providence College 2
Spelman 2
St Johns University 2
SUNY Binghamton 2
SUNY Stony Brook 2
Swarthmore 2
UC-Berkeley 2
University of Chicago 2
University of Illinois 2
University of North Carolina 2
University of Southern California 2
Villanova 2
Williams College 2
Yeshiva 2</p>
<p>American
Auburn University
Bentley
Brigham Young
California Polytech.
Cal Tech
CUNY Hunter
DePauw
Drake
Fairfield University
Hamilton College
Hobart and William Smith
Howard University
Illinois Wesleyan
Lafayette
Loyola Maryland
Marist
Miami (OH)
New Jersey Institute of Technology
Norfolk
Pace University
Penn State
Rice
Rollins College
Scranton
Stevens Institute of Technology
SUNY Buffalo
SUNY New Paltz
TCNJ
Temple
Tulane
UC-LA
University of Connecticut
University of Delaware
University of Florida
University of Georgia
University of Maryland- Baltimore County
University of Massachusetts- Amherst
University of San Diego
University of Utah
University of Vermont
University of Wisconsin
Wabash
Wake Forest</p>
<p>shouldnt Chicago have more?</p>
<p>considering it has the best economics program in the US.</p>
<p>Measuring the quality of education by what investment bankers think. Very depressing.</p>
<p>i would assume that its because that was the new york city list. if i had done a search from a chicago network for the chicago office, i'm sure that u. of chicago would be at the top</p>
<p>economics is one of the most useless degree if you want to go into finance and investment in general.</p>
<p>Goldman has well more than 20,000 employees so Huskem's list is probably just for a single department or area of the firm. Nonetheless, the list provided is helpful in that it shows the breadth of schools that are represented at Goldman and reinforces my earlier point that GS and the other investment banking firms are definitely open to schools well beyond what might on CC be considered "prestigious." </p>
<p>As for the comment re quality education and I-bankers, I concede that this can sometimes be an oxymoron. Wall Street can be an easy target for some and oftentimes, deservedly so. Still, there are a lot of very smart and very good people working on the Street. Don't paint them all with the same brush as I-bankers truly come in all shapes and sizes (not to mention educational backgrounds).</p>
<p>Excellent list huskem55.. Also thanks for the advice dajda07. Basically you mean to say the undergraduate institution one attends doesnt hold as much weight as what one does there? Do you mean in the way of GPA and extracurricular activities? Because I currently attend ASU and want to transfer to Gtown for many reasons but if I could land a top job coming from ASU that would be excellent as well.. What are your thoughts, more specifically, on ways I can make myself more appealing to all these PE firms and GS?</p>
<p>dunno, but University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) would prolly be at the top of the list.</p>
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Goldman has well more than 20,000 employees so Huskem's list is probably just for a single department or area of the firm.
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<p>Actually, Huskem's list is SO unscientific (though yes, it gives an idea so it is helpful) that it only includes the people who work at Goldman who a) have Facebook accounts and b) joined the Goldman Facebook network. I have thirty friends who work there who haven't joined the network, merely because they think it's creepy to share a Facebook network (which they associate to college, rightly so, really) with their co-workers.</p>
<p>Just fyi.</p>
<p>But I dont think people from a certain college are biased towards not associating their facebook account with the goldman network.. It seems like his list would be pretty accurately convey the percentage of new people that work at goldman from certain universities.</p>
<p>lolabelle- obviously its unscientific! first of all, it only includes people who have graduated from college in the past 3-5 years (those actually on facebook). i searched for people who listed goldman sachs as their employer, not their network though.
silly i know, but its always interesting!</p>