Most selective colleges based on SATs

College Search & Selection
201

<p>Yes; for engineering and computer science, I would “break an arm” to go to Berkeley. For everything else, however, Princeton all the way.</p>

<p>You have to consider that I’m international and I currently live in Asia, wherein here, Berkeley is more prestigious than Princeton is.
When I say Berkeley is more prestigious here, I mean Berkeley is more popular, equally as respected, and definitely more respected in many academic areas than Princeton, has wealthier and more active alumni. (for example, the son of the president of the country where I’m currently residing went to Berkeley, as well as many “big time” names here.) I understand such things are different in your area.</p>

202

<p>It’s too bad that we don’t have an emoticon to express sarcasm.</p>

203

<p>^ likewise. Because it if does, I would probably full your posts with it. lol</p>

204

<p>From the desk of Mrs. Arbor, Ann</p>

<p>Highlights of the U-M Entering Class of Fall 2009 </p>

<p>September 3, 2009</p>

<p>My dear friend Xiggi</p>

<p>This year, we received nearly 30,000 applications — a record number — for some 6,000 enrolling freshmen, meaning the selection process was once again very competitive.
And, I can say without hesitation that this year’s class is more actively engaged and academically well-qualified than any other class in the history of the University. Your many achievements are exceptional in both your academic and extra curricular endeavors, and I am confident you will contribute to the vitality of our campus community. </p>

<p>Consequently, I can assure the faculty and the administration that the Class of 2013 meets or exceeds all the measures we use for admission and, once again this year, their overall academic talents and leadership are well above national standards. </p>

<p>Let me share with you some of the exceptional achievements of this class. </p>

<p>In high school, </p>

<p>43% were elected to one or more student government offices.
Over one-third received all-city, all-league, all-county or all-state awards in athletics.
And approximately 65% played a musical instrument — from a trumpet to a Chinese two-string fiddle (Erhu);
More than half of you have volunteered in community health programs, such as in a hospital, clinic, or home.
You also assisted children or adults with disabilities, and were recognized for your community service.
35% of you have published poems, stories, essays, and articles or have worked as editors of your high school newspapers or yearbooks.
And, this year, even with a down economy, some 10% of you started your own business!
Further evidence of the leadership ability and achievements of this class… is that your teachers and counselors reported that many of you are the most outstanding students they have taught and counseled. Now, while all of this is remarkable, there is even more: </p>

<p>Approximately 1,200 members of the class scored between 650 and 800 on the Verbal portion of the SAT — up 1% from last year!
And 1,800 students scored 650 or better on the Math portion of the SAT — also up 1% from last year!
Among those who took the ACT: </p>

<p>30% of this class had a composite score between 30 and 36,
…while only 4% of students nationwide achieved that high level.
In addition, there were 295 perfect scores of 36 on at least one section of the ACT — up 3% from last year!
Now, while test scores are important in the admissions process, academic GPA and course selection carry the greatest weight. </p>

<p>The average HS GPA for this year’s class is 3.8, continuing a trend for the 6th consecutive year!
And, approximately 1,500 members achieved a perfect 4.0!
Almost a quarter of the Class of 2013 was ranked in the Top 1% of their high school graduating class…
And almost three-quarters were ranked in the Top 5%…
While over 92% ranked in the Top 10% of their graduating class, …
…continuing an upward trend of the last 5 years.
I am proud to also say, that this year’s class is once again very diverse — adding to our rich and vibrant campus community with strong representation from every racial, ethnic, social, and religious background. We heard your voice in your essays, when you wrote about your families, the economy, the presidential election, overcoming obstacles, your concern for the environment, and a sincere desire to give back to the community. You also wrote about how and why diversity was an important factor in your final college choice — confirming that your values resonate with our campus values. </p>

<p>One of my favorite essays was from an applicant who expressed her desire to attend the University saying, &dlquo;I don’t know what diversity is, but I know I need a lot of it… everyone in my school looks like me, talks like me, and acts like me…&drquo; (paraphrased) She, and you, will have an opportunity to learn from our richly diverse faculty, and along side incoming students from over 1,800 different high schools, all 50 states and almost 70 countries. </p>

<hr>

<p>** PM for the link to the text presented by Ted Spencer --the “real” Mrs. Arbor!</p>

205

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<p>That makes a good deal of sense, considering there have been generations of peoples of Asian descent living and thriving in California, and Berkeley is California’s state flagship–it would have been the best option for Asian persons bound by their financial circumstances but driven by personal motives.</p>

<p>But, you have to realize that Princeton would not have been a realistic choice for Asians way back when. It was not accessible to them given the virtual non-existence of financial aid programs, its discriminatory admissions practices, and, simply, its East Coast location.</p>

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</p>

<p>Yes, in the United States the public education system is a mess, and a majority of primary and secondary public schools are a mess. That is not to say that there are crippling faults with public higher education in the States, but there are critical foundational issues. Most adult Americans had no choice but to attend public schools, but if you were to ask them to reflect honestly about whether they would send their own kids to a good public school or a good private school, there’s not much question about it.</p>

206

<p>kwu, </p>

<p>I have no issues about Princeton being a top school. I truly think that, in general, it is a fantastic school. I would most likely go there if I applied and accepted. But I did not apply there because the field that I was interested in is not one of Princeton’s fortes. I understand most Americans don’t think the same way. I’m not sure. But for undergrad international students, unless it’s Harvard or MIT that we are talking about, people wouldn’t really care if he’ll attend Berkeley over Princeton. At the time I was applying for college, Princeton’s acceptance rate was something like 15%. But at Berkeley, the admissions rate for international applicants was something less than 7%. Yes, that’s how selective Berkeley was for international applicants and it’s an honor to be accepted at Berkeley at that time. I applied to Berkeley but I wasn’t lucky.</p>

207

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<p>Why comparing the overall admission of Princeton to Berkely’s international or OOS admission rates? Why not compare apples to apples? International admissions vary tremendously among schools that offer financial aid for foreigners, are need-blind or need-aware, or simply offer littleto no help to foreigners at the undergraduate level. What is the percentage of admission for internationals at Princeton? </p>

<p>Comparing Princeton 15% overall admission to a well-selected international rate does NOT provide a meaningful data point.</p>

208

<p>I agree with xiggi. RML, your logic puzzles me.</p>

209

<p>Post #206 is interesting. My opinion, in agreement with RML, is that Harvard & MIT are easily the two most prestigious U.S. universities in the eyes of many both domestically & abroad. Beyond these two schools, it probably is an issue of name recognition in which Notre Dame, Penn State, UCLA, & West Point are next in line. Princeton & Berkeley are not well known by laypersons, in my opinion.</p>

210

<p>Xiggi, please remember that I was</p>

<ol>
<li>only telling my point of view as an international applicant, so at the time that I was applying, what matters to me was the statistics that only matter to me.</li>
<li>Berkeley has a separate data for international applicants/students</li>
<li>Princeton did not have data that are separated from the overall data</li>
</ol>

<p>I think that one of the biggest reasons why Berkeley was/is viewed as a super elite school outside of the US (especially during the time that I was applying) was/is because Berkeley was/is super selective for international applicants. It has an admissions rate similar to those of HYPSM’s. And, like we all know, school selectivity influences school prestige.</p>