<p>For all you experienced parents out there, we would appreciate your insight into the post-freshman year housing decision at big state schools. My son is a freshman at Wisconsin, loves it, very happy living in freshman "party" dorm. He is very social and enjoys the open door along the hallway, lots of people to hang out with, aspect of dorm life. </p>
<p>At the same time, he has expressed some frustration with the fact that a number of the guys he had become friends with peeled off to pledge frats. Even though he knows the overall greek participation at UW is not high, it feels like a lot of people he knows -- sound like he feels like he wants a smaller group of friends that he can count on. He also has started to acknowledge that dining hall food is terrible. </p>
<p>On the advice of parents who had been unprepared for the November apartment-coupling that happens freshman year at big schools, we said he needed to stay in dorms for 2 years and can then move off campus (we know he would be in the minority next year if he stays on campus next year).</p>
<p>Could people share your experience, pros and cons, with the off-campus move? Does it help or hurt the very social kid (who sometimes benefits from positive peer pressure to buckle down and work hard)? Do students who really don't cook eat any better? Does the lack of university presence in the living environment make a difference? </p>
<p>I know that most sophomores at our mega U move off campus, mainly because there just isn’t housing available. Most colleges/universities allow kids living off campus to participate in their meal plans so he wouldn’t need to cook. I would be prepared to deal with him losing his social circle if you make him stay on campus when his friends are not.</p>
<p>This is the number one reason our kids wouldn’t consider going to a large university, they like the community feel of campuses where kids live on campus all 4 years. I attended a school like that, they had on campus apartments for juniors and seniors and it’s a really nice set up.</p>
<p>I do have a couple thoughts on this - first, my DD has pledged a sorority and has decided to live in the house next year, and so is her roommate and a few other friends. however, the ones who did not go greek are mostly living off campus and are currently hunting for apts, roomates, etc. So I imagine what he said is true - many people will move off. However, someone posted a study about a year ago finding that, in large part, kids who satyed on campus at least two years were statistically more likely to finish school and got better grades. I am not a study guru, but I was interested in the finding. </p>
<p>Does UW have upper class dorms? Can he find someone to room with? If so, I would probably see if he would do that. many of the large U’s have apt style dorms for upperclassmen. Is that an option?</p>
<p>Steve and momof – Thanks for the input, and I will have to look for that study! It makes sense to me that students still on campus would have more structure etc, and that would help, but what do I know . . . . </p>
<p>UW does not have upper class apt style housing for undergrads, though there are the private dorms and a number of all-student apartment buildings close enough to campus. With those options, it seems pretty straight-forward to live as a student, with all utilities included in rent so you don’t have a group of 5 guys forgetting to pay the heat bill. Generally the newer dorms, which are nicer and for which you pay a higher rate, house the 30% or so of the upperclassmen who stay on campus. </p>
<p>Both my husband and I went to LACs though strangely enough, we both moved off campus as sophomores for different reasons (mine was strictly financial, his was the school culture). If my son ever figures that out, he will wonder why the double standard!</p>
<p>We fought, and lost, the LAC/big school battle with our son – and we can now see why he loves the big school environment – the moving buffet of choices and opportunities appeals to him. For both my husband and myself, not so much.</p>
<p>Both my kids moved off campus as sophomores, at a university where most sophomores stay in dorms, but then move out as juniors. In part because of that pattern, they were each in a group apartment with two or three juniors when they were sophomores. They did it because they didn’t like the dorm atmosphere, they didn’t like the institutional food, and it saved over $1,000/year, even with a bunch of extra costs for living off campus. Both lived in student-ghetto type apartment buildings, one about a mile from the center of campus, and the other four blocks away, and in fact across the street from an official dorm. In one case, the small apartment building was almost like a theme dorm. Every apartment included at least one person involved in a specific extracurricular (which included my kid), and some of those kids had a related academic major. So there was a strong social aspect to that building.</p>
<p>It was very successful. I think living with juniors gave them a little more academic focus, or at least a hint that academic focus was a good thing. They continued to be social, but more out of their homes than in them. (They both deliberately picked housemates who were less into parties than they were, and turned down opportunities to live with closer friends who partied more.) They affirmatively liked to shop for food and to cook, so that was not a relevant comparison for the OP. (However, both initially retained a limited meal plan so they could eat in campus cafeterias sometimes, and both gave that up in later years.) Their academic performance improved, but it’s hard to say whether any of that was attributable to their living circumstances, or how much.</p>
<p>My D attended a large urban university where most students move off-campus as sophomores or juniors. She actually moved off-campus after freshman year and was infinitely happier there in her off-campus appartment than she ever was in the dorm.</p>
<p>She hated dorm food and was much happier cooking healthy food for herself and her rommates.</p>
<p>She disliked the party atmosphere in the dorm and loved the quiet (and the freedom) in her own place.</p>
<p>Her grades actually improved (not that they were ever bad) once she moved.</p>
<p>I think the whole on-campus/off-campus debate depends a lot on your child, his personality, and his maturity level. D never really wanted the whole on-campus cozy dorm experience (although I wanted that for her!); she never forgot her rent or heat bill and seemed to thrive on her own. I worried about her a lot those first few years but in retrospect, I shouldn’t have.</p>
<p>My older son moved off campus as a junior. He doesn’t cook at all, so lived on cereal and lunches and dinners at Subway and the like. His friends were seniors and when they graduated he was up a creek - especially since the landlord of their very nice house decided it was a good time to sell it. He ended up living alone in a small apartment senior year, which I didn’t think was good for his naturally solitary tendencies, though I think he was fine with it. It was a scramble finding that apartment since he’d spent the entire summer on the opposite coast and hadn’t arranged it before he left. The apartment he found had a one year lease he ended up having to eat the summer rent since he didn’t find a sublet to finish off the time. Luckily he had a job that covered the cost, because we certainly weren’t interested.</p>
<p>His grades didn’t improve, not that we saw them, but we know he only made Dean’s List freshman year. He did fine however, and is gainfully employed now.</p>
<p>A lot depends on the off-campus living that is available. Around our big state U, many off campus apartments are really across the street from campus. I found living in an apartment was homier, nice to have a kitchen and more amenities. We never missed friends because they were always over. If the apartments are far away, it becomes more of a commuter situation.</p>
<p>Pros, it can be a plus for social reasons, it can cost less, it is an important rite of passage at some schools with some kids, Cons, it can be a minus for social reasons,it can cost more, it can be dangerous, it can be time consuming in that problems can arise in being a renter rather under the umbrella of university housing, kids may not eat well when off the meal plan, with no rules the kid or room/house mates can go further amok and there is no RA to intervene. </p>
<p>Personally, as a list, the cons outweight the pros, but the overwhelming reason is that is is something the kid is hot to do and that can make a huge difference in school performance, depression compliance with things you ask, atttitude, blaming the living situation, etc. Both my sons gave up sumptuous on campus apartments, the likes of which they will not be able to afford for years after graduation, in order to live in some dump and have turf wars with the crack den across the street. BUt that was what they wanted so badly that to forbid it, and I tried one year, made no sense. It was a losing battle on my part. The extra effort that my sons made to prove that it was the better choice was worth a lot of the problems that arose, and I’m sure I don’t know the extent or all of them. </p>
<p>For both kids, it was “the thing to do” among their friends, and that was the driving reason.</p>
<p>Both my kids moved off campus after freshman year. One into an apartment for second year and then into his frat the last 2 years. Other son is a senior and has been in the same apartment since he was a sophomore (which has been helpful as he has not had to move anything around for the last couple of years). Like cptofthehouse’s kids, my kids moved off campus when their friends they met as freshman wanted them to move off campus with them. I can imagine it would be hard for a kid if they had an opportunity to move off campus with their buddies and the parents wouldn’t allow it.</p>
<p>I teach at a different Big 10 school and live in town, so some thoughts…</p>
<p>Every parent I talk with says that they save $1000-$2000 per year in costs by moving off campus. I think many students save on food costs, judging by what I see in their shopping carts at the store…5 loafs of the cheapest bread, cheap lunch meat, giant bags of generic chips, massive quantities of inexpensive cereals, and a 12 pack of Schlitz.</p>
<p>All leases in our town are for 12 months. It is nearly impossible to sublet so if your son wants to do a study abroad, intern, etc in a different place, he will be stuck paying rent in the summer even if he is not living there. Even with this factored in, parents say it is still often cheaper but some see it as ‘throwing’ money away. </p>
<p>Virtually no one other than first years live on campus. The ‘student ghetto’ is full of activity every night and most students really like this. They sit on their front porches on ratty old couches talking, playing bags, etc, etc. They still have a on campus community feel being so close but with fewer restrictions.</p>
<p>It comes down to letting the student make his own decision, just as the OP did in letting him choose his college even when the parent may well have had the better choice in mind. What the student wants is an important factor to have on your side. My personal feeling about it which is just that, my personal opinion and my kids could not care less about it, is that they will have their whole lives to have to buy food, plan meals, pay rent, pay utilities, deal with needed repairs, have substandard housing, etc, etc. SO much easier to live on campus and eat at the eateries there. SO much simpler and not something one likely will get to do once graduated and in the general work force in the world. But that isn’t the way the kids look at it. If the crowd they are with are moving off campus and your son get asked to join in, you could have one miserable kid if you flat out refuse to permit it. And every problem that arises the next year will likely be attributed to that denial.</p>
<p>Our son stayed on grounds for second year and is currently looking for off grounds housing for next year (his university also does early housing so everything must be decided early…a drawback, specifically for first year students who have only been there a couple of months IMO). We asked last year that unless he was very unhappy on grounds that he stay one more year. That said, upperclassman dorms are apartment style so they are a step up from most first year housing. I’d say it’s about 50/50 of students that move off grounds second year, and it’s readily available and very close…some closer then where he is. We weren’t ready to deal with a 12mo lease and some or all utilities. Luckily he and his rm formed a 4’some with two friends and they got their first choice in the lottery. If they’d ended up with less desirable housing through the lottery I may have been more inclined to agree to an apartment. I will say that they are a lot more knowledgable going into the apartment hunt this year as they know the area a lot better and what will suit them best. Last year a lot of first year students were making guesses as to which area would better suit them and are now finding they might have been happier in a different location. It’s a gamble when you have to choose so early. There’re aren’t ‘bad’ locations, simply choosing what you are closer to…classes, restaurants, grocery/shopping, etc. If you don’t have a car these things are important.</p>
<p>If your student does decide to go with off grounds housing I’d encourage them to look for places that may offer individual leases to each tenant. This way if the roommate(s) doesn’t pay their rent for some reason you’re not responsible for it. This may be regional, but I know there are some places at a few of our state universities that offer this. As a parent paying the rent this is a desirable feature if you can find it. Your student can ask around and see if it exists anywhere in his university community.</p>
<p>I will edit to add that if the only option for staying a second year had been a standard dorm I don’t think my son would have taken this option, nor would we have encouraged it. The fact that upperclassman housing is apartment style with 2/3 bedrooms, 2b, living room, and a kitchen allows them to eliminate, or cut down on their meal plan, and do a lot or all of the cooking for themselves. As all roommates but my son are Jewish and keep kosher this is a big advantage. They are getting the same advantage of learning budgeting, shopping, and cooking that they would if living in an off grounds apartment.</p>
<p>My S is at a large-ish private U, and I was surprised last December when he came home and announced that he and 3 friends had looked at an apartment and were moving for sophomore year. One of the reasons he was in the honors program is that he could live in the honors dorm all 4 years, whereas on-campus housing was not guaranteed for non-honors students. I was impressed that he had taken initiative to do the legwork involved; showed some maturity and taking charge of his own life. He is close to campus (can ride his bike) and has money in the dining debit plan so he can eat lunch and some dinners on campus. I am a big believer in letting them make their own decisions and mistakes.</p>
<p>Like mentioned above, each tenant has his own lease. One is studying abroad in the spring, and will find his own replacement, which could be a plus or minus, depending on who they get as a substitute room mate!</p>
<p>My DS moved off campus his junior year and loves it. It costs less to live off-campus than in the dorms. He has learned to cook, grocery shop, pay bills on time, act responsibly and contact maintenance when problems pop up, and share house-cleaning responsibilities with a roommate. He and his roommate shopped for an apartment on their own and found one right on the edge of campus that they could afford. They don’t need cars because they can walk to campus and shopping. They paid their deposit and got their leasing applications in on time (December of the year prior to Fall term of junior year.)</p>
<p>I know that DS is well-prepared for the world outside of college. He’ll be just fine once he gets a job. He knows how to take care of himself and act responsibly. He’s also no longer distracted by all the shenanigans that go on in the dorms. That alone is worth the move off-campus!</p>
<p>Thanks so much, some really interesting perspectives and factors to consider. </p>
<p>One that I hadn’t given much thought to is the impact on him on being “forbidden” to do what his peers are doing. He has, in his mind, endured a lifetime of parents limiting his access to what others enjoy, whether video games, unlimited access to his own car etc, and he sometimes pushes himself too far the other end to show that he can. In hindsight, we erred on the side of control when he was younger, and we have been trying to step back as he matures and needs to make his decisions about his increasingly adult life (18 or not, he still has a lot of growing up to do). </p>
<p>I think if he just lived on Subway and 5 guys burgers, he would feel that he is eating better than he does in the dorm. I like the safety net of an RA in case there are problems, but he needs to develop self-awareness on his own.</p>
<p>Some of the private dorms/student apartment bldgs offer individual leases in multi-room apartments, and I hadn’t thought about the flexibility iif a roommate situation goes bad, that is an important factor to consider.</p>
<p>Thanks for the insight so far, more experience appreciated!</p>
<p>My son went behind my back and moved off campus his freshman year. He sabotaged his housing application so he got no room. I had every good reason for wanting him on campus, and he ended up on there in a quad room, when the arrangements failed at the house he and 5 others rented. Just about everything that could go wrong did including things that did not occur to me. Three of the kids took a leave that term when the pipes burst due to an early freezing spell and the total stoppage of public transporation in that area and inaccessible roads. The house was 3-4 miles away from campus and that made getting there nearly impossible. The only reason my son did not bail out of the uni is that we had the money to make up for sunk costs,and I moved immediately and got him a bed in the last available room.</p>
<p>Still, he wanted to live off campus and so he did his senior year despite junior year at a campus apartment that I thought was sumptuous. He won the lottery in gettting that place, but he preferred nasty digs with his friends. And so he did. I guess it was good practice for his post college days since those are the type of living arrangements he has now.</p>
<p>But many times you want the Big Mo’s in play for your kid–MOtivation, MOmentum and that can be stalled when you call too many shots. No specific advice for you or any other parent in this situation, just relating my experience with this. Both my kids who went off campus graduated in 4 years despite misadventrues with the student ghetto, and I am sure I don’t know the extent of what went on there.</p>
<p>About 90% of UW students move off campus after first year. A time-honored tradition and way of life at UW. Also a great learning experience as you have to stand up for yourself from time to time with roommates.</p>