<p>Hi,</p>
<p>What are the major differences between the two? Which one is more well regarded in the business (banking, consulting, etc) world?</p>
<p>Comments would be appreciated.</p>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I’m getting my Masters in MS&E in the fall. </p>
<p>I think they are two very different programs. Financial Mathematics at Stanford is very small. It is also extremely competitive and the admissions rate is in the single digits (keep in mind almost everyone applying is probably very qualified). It is geared toward people who possess a very high quantitative ability (think A’s in high level UG math, research, finance-related work experience, 800Q GRE, etc.) and ultimately want to work as ‘quants’ in a hedge firm (like D.E. Shaw) or trading arm of an IB. </p>
<p>MS&E is a much larger program (formed from three legacy departments about 10 yrs ago) and has a relatively higher admissions rate. It is also quantitative, but definitely less rigorous than anything you would find in FM. Whereas the FM degree is basically composed entirely of highly rigorous math courses, the MS&E degree is a mix of both quantitative and ‘soft’ courses. The appeal of the program is that it is broad, so you can choose an emphasis in econ/finance, operations research, energy/environmental policy, etc. You also have the luxury of taking courses in other schools, including Stanford GSB. If you want to work in finance/business, you would definitely be able to find opportunities with a MS&E degree. From the placement stats on the website, it looks like many grads go into the big consulting firms or some kind of business analyst role. </p>
<p>So look into FM if you are very math-oriented and want to be a quant trader or financial engineer. For more generic business career opportunities, MS&E is a good way to go.</p>
<p>I have read about the Fin. Math programs before, and yes, the key distinguishing factor is that the Fin. Math is geared towards very mathematically inclined students - the prerequisites make it clear. I think the MS and E requires some calculus and other requirements which can be completed during the degree (I know little about that program, but looked it up for comparison’s sake). I feel the assumption is one should be very comfortable with analysis of functions of real variables before entering, differential equations, statistics. The core courses they require you to complete in Fin. Math at the graduate level probably require plenty of background to appreciate [the rule with such classes tends to be that the longer you’ve spent thinking about related things, the better off you’ll be…as opposed to a hard and fast set of labeled prerequisites]. I even think it may be true that PhD students in math may be enrolled in Fin. Math while still doctoral students.</p>
<p>I think looking at the actual work you’ll be asked to do will serve you best in distinguishing what kind of students there are. </p>
<p>My impression is for fin. math, it may be helpful to really know you want to go down that path if you want admission and, perhaps on a related note, if you’ll feel you’ll get what you want out of it.</p>
<p>For comparison’s sake, check out U. Chicago - they should have something similar to the financial math thing, and you can compare and notice the common points among these types of programs.</p>
<p>The other program does seem to have a broader appeal, but like I said I know little about it.</p>
<p>
At Stanford, at the end of junior year, you can apply for co-term for FM and get BS and MS in five years. You don’t have to apply for graduate school.</p>
<p>To go to Chicago, you have to graduate from Stanford, and apply formally for graduate study to get in the program, if it exists.</p>
<p>^ Yeah that’s an important distinguishing factor. The other major distinguishing factor to keep in mind for Fin. Math programs is duration and nature of study. My impression is they typically have a few tracks for students who want to either focus in and finish in a short amount of time [probably possible to do it in a year, including summer quarters where applicable] and for those who want to spend a longer time. Depending on the school, it may be possible to extend the program of study long enough to warrant maintaining a job on the side…how long this can go depends on the program.</p>
<p>However, as ewho suggests, a nice thing about Fin. Math programs is that they can be especially short and sweet, perhaps intentionally more so than many traditional master’s programs.</p>
<p>Yeah I think for co-terms you just need to complete your undergraduate coursework and can then immediately start on your Masters instead of having to wait until the Fall. You still have to apply like everyone else, though not sure if you as a Stanford UG get any special treatment apart from other applicants for admissions. I would bet most Stanford UGs who apply for MS&E co-term probably have no problem getting in, but considering how small and selective FM is, I would imagine that it is no shoe in.</p>
<p>
Very special treatment: high GPA, internships, etc. You don’t need to go thourgh the normal procedure to apply for graduate school, I think. But, you may not get in.</p>
<p>I am a part of the statistics masters at stanford, and Im a coterm. financial math is administered out of the statistics department (although it has classes in stats, math, ms&e, and the gsb), so i know a bunch of the students/have taken a few of their classes.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>if you apply to a stanford masters program through a coterm, the application is approximately the same as someone applying externally, but its (generally) much easier to get in. Basically if you have decent grades in the relevant subject area during undergrad you’ll be fine. The way it works is you need 120 units (typically thats some where in junior year) and you can apply for the coterm. once you are admitted you can start taking classes for the degree starting the next quarter (as well as transfer any relevant classes you took the previous 2 quarters) concurrently with your undergrad degree. the only rule is that you have to graduate with your BS before or at the same time as your MS. For example, I graduated with my BS last quarter, and I’m graduating with my MS this quarter (I could have done both this quarter if i wanted).</p></li>
<li><p>financial math is extremely math heavy. think of it as more math and less finance. in your “orientation” your interests should be closer to getting a math masters rather than a finance one. a lot of the people in the program are stat phds, more quantitiatively focused MS&E phds, etc. </p></li>
<li><p>if you are thinking of going into banking or consulting this is definitely not the degree for you. in fact, if you are thinking about banking, a masters degree, if anything, will set you back from getting a spot. My impression is that consulting firms like the MS&E masters, but i know less about consulting recruiting.</p></li>
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<p>hmmmm, this is interesting, could you explain why?</p>
<p>There is a list of job placements for MS&E grads from the past few years on Stanford’s Career Center website. By far the most popular destination for MS students is in the big strategy consulting firms. From what I see, there are very few finance placements in IB or other banking positions. My theory is that most entry level analyst jobs at IB firms go to undergraduates who have completed summer analyst positions with these companies and are then offered a full-time position following graduation. Obviously, these grads are going straight to work and not to grad school. Chances are both internal and external MS admits do not have IB offers waiting for them (or else why would they be in grad school?) and thus will have a much more difficult time landing one of these positions unless you somehow take two years and land a summer internship after your first year.</p>
<p>@ Shazami</p>
<p>financial math is for people that want to be quantitative researchers/traders/portfolio managers. And even then, its a really theory dense program–go check out the website: finmath.stanford.edu</p>
<p>@jassy12</p>
<p>that’s partially right. it is true that a lot of students use grad school as a way to go through recruiting again. The banks do hire most of their analyst class from the summer. I did 3 internships at banks during undergrad, and it is safe to say that most of them actively look for BS candidates for straight banking. There’s no benefit of having a MS in banking, so that seems reasonable. In other parts of finance though, there can be a real benefit to graduate degrees–people just have to realize that finance doesn’t start and end with the investment banking division at GS, JPM, MS, etc. Even at those firms, you are going to see a lot of their strategists, quant/algo traders, structures, etc with advanced degrees. Then there’s prop trading firms, hedge funds… the list goes on.</p>
<p>Consulting will always look favorably on the extra degrees–it’s one more thing to impress clients with.</p>