<p>well my friend is engineering and he still didn’t get anything. he has amazing stats…the only reason he didn’t get a 36 on the ACT is because he forgot his calculator and got a 34 on the math section</p>
<p>“I actually had to look up Ferris State. God it’s in Big Rapids, Michigan and they’re not considering Michigan?
Very wise if you ask me.” </p>
<p>What part of “don’t care about prestige” do you not understand?</p>
<p>I realize what you are saying, but they are still misguided. Michigan provides a superior education to any university in the state. Prestige is a matter of opinion, but quality of education is pretty straight forward.</p>
<p>well the pharmacy school at Ferris is superb</p>
<p>Alexandre, exactly. One of the most important aspect of college is to learn from like-minded peers who at are the same level intellectually. Do you think Ferris State will be able to offer the same learning environment as Michigan does?</p>
<p>I don’t mean to promote Michigan as superior to other schools, but when you’re in state, and you don’t consider Michigan, I’m sorry, I will judge you.</p>
<p>mjmay, Ferris State’s school of Pharmacy is strong relative to other programs within the university, but it is not that strong in the absolute sense. I have never seen Ferris State ranked among the top 25 in Pharmacy. Michigan’s school of Pharmacy is ranked #5 in the nation. </p>
<p>From a puely academic point of view, if Michigan has a particular program, it is going to be the best university in the state. Michigan does not offer Agriculture and Hotel Management. For those two fields, MSU is the best option in the state and one of the best in the nation. MSU’s school of education also matches Michigan’s. But for all other undergraduate majors, Michigan is better than all other in-state options by some margin.</p>
<p>Some here have suggested that they chose Michigan State over Michigan for reasons of “fit”. I don’t understand how that can be. Michigan and MSU are too similar. Both are members of the Big 10, both are large, both are public, both are located in college towns, both are equally far from Detroit and Chicago. I can see how one may slightly prefer one of those two universities over the other, but that can never be by a margin large enough to justify choosing it over Michigan. If we were comparing Michigan to Kalamazoo College, I would understand. But Michigan and MSU are just not that different.</p>
<p>Alexandre, Kalamazoo College is as highly regarded as UofM as far as undergraduate education goes. It is truly a gem of an LAC.</p>
<p>Let’s face it we live in the 21st century, a world class education is readily available for free for anyone with a computer and access to the internet. The primary purpose for a student to invest in higher education is to credential his or herself with some legitimacy. Kalamazoo might offer a comparable or even a superior educational experience compared to Michigan, but it’s hard to deny that outside of Michigan, Umich would probably open more doors.</p>
<p>“I realize what you are saying, but they are still misguided. Michigan provides a superior education to any university in the state.”</p>
<p>Not everybody is obsessed with driving a sports car that goes 160 mph, a luxury car that shows you have money, a gas/battery hybrid that makes a political statement, or an SUV with giant tires and lights on the roof. Some people see cars as transportation to get them where they want to go, and are self-confident enough to be content with a Ford Focus.</p>
<p>So MSU is a ****ty Ford Focus but ur cool with that. Ok. </p>
<p>Just don’t think you can pass it off as a sports car</p>
<p>Lets not get too crazy. Kalamazoo is far and away the best LAC in Michigan, but a better education than U of M? Not a chance. In terms of reputation, Kalamazoo isn’t even that well known within the state.</p>
<p>It’s a very underrated school with a solid undergrad experience, but even MSU is honestly probably a better option than Kalamazoo if you are going by prestige.</p>
<p>It should be noted, however, that unlike MSU you could actually use “fit” as a reasonable justification for picking Kalamazoo over Michigan, since it is a much smaller school in a different type of environment.</p>
<p>i think you can use fit as a justification for picking msu over michigan, some people just do not like AA for whatever that reason is and they like EL better. Also, michigan is a lot more expensive for instate students than say Ferris or GVSU for students who want to go into nursing or pharmacy. The programs are well known within the state of michigan and the $40,000 or more saved goes a long way.</p>
<p>Going to a Ferris or GVSU type of school because of money is not only understandable, it is smart. Prestige is important, but not as important as avoiding debt.</p>
<p>However, that doesn’t then give those students the right to try and pretend like their program is better than it is.</p>
<p>mjmay, there is no legitimate reason for choosing MSU over Michigan on the grounds of fit. Choosing MSU over Michigan because one prefers EL to AA is like choosing UC Riverside over UC-Berkeley because one prefers Riverside to Berkeley…or choosing NC State over UNC because one prefers Raleigh to Chapel Hill. Ann Arbor and East Lansing are both very nice and pleasant college towns. If Ann Arbor were a horrible ghetto or stuck in the boonies, I would understant, but AA and EL have too much in common to justify choosing one over the other based on fit.</p>
<p>Choosing Ferris State or GVSU over Michigan in order to save $40k makes perfect sense.</p>
<p>Alexandre, i can tell you as someone who has lived in michigan all my life and quite close to MSU, that the two schools have VERY different attitudes and attract different types of students. The atmosphere is completely different in EL than it is in AA. Also, many people in the state of michigan believe that going to UofM turns a person into a snob(i’m not saying that is true, it is just what other people think). Also, please don’t compare MSU to Riverside, it is more like the difference between UCB and UCLA.</p>
<p>"Also, please don’t compare MSU to Riverside, it is more like the difference between UCB and UCLA. "</p>
<p>Neither comparison is apt. It’s more like comparing UCB to UCSanta Cruz.</p>
<p>And yes, they do attract different types of students, I agree. Michigan mostly takes students who are serious about school. MSU also takes students who are serious about school…and everyone else as well, making the student body a lot less focused and driven as a whole.</p>
<p>Somewhere in the annual US News college edition there is always a chart of colleges that are specialty schools that don’t lend themselves to fitting in with any of the other categories (national U., LAC, etc.). </p>
<p>If I remember correctly, a surprising # of these colleges are business-oriented schools in Michigan. I’m not talking about Everest, DeVry, Kaplan, etc., but rather colleges like Walsh, Baker, Davenport, Cleary, and one or two others. </p>
<p>These schools have zero social prestige, but apparently give a business education that is often adequate to get a decent job in Michigan. The fact that there seems to be a lot more of this type of school in Michigan than in any other state further supports the claims here that Michigan has an uncommonly high number of people who are immune to the charms of prestige and are interested in a basic vocational college education without all the bells, whistles, and prestige of “regular” colleges.</p>
<p>“These schools have zero social prestige, but apparently give a business education that is often adequate to get a decent job in Michigan.”</p>
<p>What line of reasoning are you using to get any of the claims in this sentence? Walsh is a respected business college, but not a tenth as respected as Ross. Yes, you can get a good or even great job with a Walsh business degree; but a Ross degree will get you such a job or a better one faster and with fewer hurdles. If you put in the hard work up front by getting in to and through Ross, you get more rewards faster. Walsh has an image of people going back to school for their MBAs to better their lives. Walsh is fantastic, but the goals of the students are far different than what you will find at Ross, Warton, Harvard, etc. As has been mentioned previously in this thread, the most highly driven students in the state of Michigan generally prefer Michigan because its absolute skill (as measured by faculty, structure of programs, and motivation of students) gives its students both the absolute skill and branding to get and succeed in both the top Michigan jobs and, more importantly, top jobs nationally and internationally. Walsh is adequate for Michigan. Nobody will dispute that. Michigan is beyond adequate for the world.</p>
<p>“The fact that there seems to be a lot more of this type of school in Michigan than in any other state further supports the claims here that Michigan has an uncommonly high number of people who are immune to the charms of prestige and are interested in a basic vocational college education without all the bells, whistles, and prestige of “regular” colleges.”</p>
<p>Your reasoning is backwards in two places here. First, schools and programs earn prestige through their output of successful graduates; you argue that schools have prestige and thus earn students who will become successful graduates. True, the students at top schools are self-selected insofar as they had to prove themselves in high school to gain admission, but that in no way negates the fact that prestigious schools, for the most part, impart skills worth the price upon their students. Second, Michigan has more universities focused solely on business not because people balk at the idea of a prestigious Michigan business education, but because the demand for business graduates outweighs the number of people who get into Michigan. Overflow goes to the schools you mentioned, be it through rejection, life circumstances, or simply finding a better fit at one of these schools, all of which are perfectly good reasons for not attending Michigan. That’s why being “immune to the charms of prestige” is the most ridiculous thing I have read on this board in a long while; it’s tantamount to saying that those people are ignorant of the resources Michigan has to offer. You’ve equated prestige with waste and some vague and undefined superfluous aspect of education, these “bells and whistles.” These ‘bells and whistles’ are the better faculty, mutual motivation of your peers, and superior institutions and instructional systems that Michigan has worked for almost two centuries to make among the best in the world. Being immune to the prestige of Michigan is being ignorant of the best educational resource in the state and one of the top 20 universities in the world. For an in-stater, with in-state tuition, barring a true conflict with fit and happiness, which I acknowledge can and does happen, Michigan is unparalleled.</p>
<p>The base question of this thread is, “Is the reason people choose Michigan over MSU based in hollow prestige or justified prestige (where justified would be tangible differences between the programs and output of successful graduates).” Alexandre and others have over and over given evidence as empirical as we have access to that shows that Michigan deserves, in every respect, the prestige it has. Michigan simply has more, does more, and is worth more. That’s why it costs more. That’s why the students are more competitive there. That’s why it has a different atmosphere than MSU. Michigan is justified.</p>
<p>on the whole “immune to prestige” thing, i have noticed that most of the “average” students that could get in to both MSU and UofM but would be in the bottom half of UofM don’t seem to feel like UofM is the better school. I’m not sure why. I do know that the others that would be in the top 25% of UofM, myself included, would prefer and actually know and care about the differences in education at the different schools in michigan. the other students don’t seem to differentiate between MSU, CMU, GVSU, Ferris, SVSU, and UofM</p>
<p>“I’m not sure why.”</p>
<p>It might be a bit of fear. If you got into both MSU and UofM, but have the notion in your head that you’d definitely be the lower half or worse of admitted students at UofM, then that lack of self-confidence and fear of being washed away in competitive Ann Arbor might, rather reasonably, push one toward MSU. Rationally speaking, because the competition is lesser at MSU, a highly motivated cross-admit would have a better position, GPA and class ranking wise, at MSU. For pre-meds, this jump in position can sometimes outweigh the tangible educational benefits of UofM. </p>
<p>And after picking MSU over UofM, one might have a case of selection bias; though, so might I for choosing UofM. The data just happens to back my selection bias more.</p>