<p>i do know a lot of pre-med students who picked MSU or even WMU over UofM because of the grading curve at UofM and how it is easier to have a higher GPA elsewhere. The reason i do not buy the whole “fear” explanation is that many students in michigan simply do not realize that UofM is an amazing school. Most students in michigan don’t know how talented and highly intellectual the student body is. this happens because we, the instate students, see some not so smart people get in and then think it is on the same level as MSU. I only know of 2 students this year who didn’t get in to UofM from my school and with such high acceptance people believe that it is just a “normal” college, not the world class institution that it is</p>
<p>I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just said. The “fear” explanation fails under the conditions you described, and coming from a school that sent ~30 kids to Michigan, I can personally attest to that mentality.</p>
<p>I knew someone who also got into both Michigan and MSU. But he ultimately chose MSU because he liked the more “city” feel of Lansing over Ann Arbor. So for him at least, location definitely played a factor.</p>
<p>^Tbh that’s an idiotic reason to choose a school. If you want a city feel, go to Michigan and enjoy Ann Arbor, and then in four years enjoy the city feel of New York or Chicago. Or, you could go to MSU and not really enjoy the run down city feel in EL and then in four years, also not enjoy the run down city feel of Detroit or Cleveland.</p>
<p>Also, Ann Arbor is seven times as big as EL. So the city feel argument doesn’t even make sense.</p>
<p>think he means that he liked the feel of Lansing proper better than Ann Arbor…which is still rather stilly, cause Lansing is a city that is roughly as large as Ann Arbor, and not nearly as nice. Not to mention MSU is not actually IN Lansing, but in EL.</p>
<p>Lansing: 114,000
Ann Arbor: 113,000
EL: 48,000</p>
<p>It’s actually rather ironic, since usually people who go to MSU cite the city feel of Michigan as a reason NOT to go there.</p>
<p>I agree eziamm. EL and AA are similar type cities. Both are relatively small college towns equidistant from Detroit and Chicago. Only a student raised with a strong anti-Michigan bias would find excuses to pick MSU over Michigan based on “fit”. Yes, there are differences between Michigan and MSU (and between AA and EL), but those differences do not bridge the gap in quality. In order for one to choose MSU over Michigan for non-financial and non-academic (a major only offered at MSU) reasons, one must have a strong anti-Michigan bias. I am not talking about fit, I am talking about irrational dislike.</p>
<p>I have to say quite an interesting forum for a Michigan resident (perhaps soon to be ex-resident?) like myself. The point about the pre-med curve between Michigan and other schools is a very good point and one of the reasons why I picked GVSU. However, I did end up changing my major so it was sort of a moot point for myself. Furthermore, U of M is notoriously difficult with that curve in the “weeder” classes, and many top 10% high school students start at college being pre-med, so that is a good point. One last point is location, which hasn’t really been mentioned as much. As much as I love Ann Arbor, not everyone else has the same feeling as me about AA. Also, there are plenty of really smart people that either want to a) stay close to home or b) save a ton of money. I’ve been out in the Grand Rapids area for around four years now, and a ton of kids do not want to leave the “bubble” of the West Michigan area. Finally, just because you don’t go to a school such as U of M for undergrad doesn’t mean you can’t go there for graduate school. Regardless, U of M is a fantastic school and really helps make Michigan one of the best states for public higher education in the country.</p>
<p>As for the COA differences between Michigan and GVSU (found on U of M and GVSU websites):</p>
<p>U of M - $24167
GVSU - $19712</p>
<p>4 year savings = $17820</p>
<p>Of course if you are seriously considering U of M, you most likely would get scholarships from GV. Most likely you would get the scholarship I got, the Faculty Scholarship. The value can vary but we’ll say you get $1000 from that and the $1500 Award for Excellence. That would bring GV COA down to about $17212. Also, if you moved off campus to Allendale you could save roughly $2000 to $3000 in living expenses for the year. Then the COA would be around $15000. Then the 4 year savings would be $36668. Of course, U of M gives a lot of aid to needy in state students so a lot of the numbers would depend on the FAFSA amount.</p>
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<p>I really hate this generalization. I am the epitome of evidence against this. </p>
<p>For some of us, yes it really does “bridge the gap”. I like U of M and was raised in a STRONGLY pro-Michigan family. I have nothing against U of M, I just spent time there and spent time at MSU (I’ve taken classes at both, too) and I just felt more at home and comfortable at MSU. I also really just don’t like AA. I am not much of a city person and MSU is much more of a closed campus than AA. And yes, that is truly a huge part of the reason why I picked MSU over U of M. I don’t regret it in the least. </p>
<p>And with that, I’m done with this thread. I’ve just had this argument too many times in real life, I’m sure those of you living in Michigan and going against your family’s wishes (whatever they are- whether you’re supposed to go green or go blue) understand.</p>
<p>To be fair Alexandre, I can KINDA see a basis for fit in the campus type. They may be similar sized areas, but MSU is more suburban and natural compared to Ann Arbor, which is both a college town and a city at the same time.</p>
<p>Alexandre, “fit” should be a huge part of your college decision. why pick a place that you are not going to be happy at just because it has more prestige? msu isn’t a bad school at all, and for the enormous amount of money i have to pay to go to college, i sure damn well better enjoy where i am at.</p>
<p>and please quit implying that they are the same because they have close to the same population and both are just as far from detroit and chicago. that means nothing</p>
<p>This is where I will have to disagree with Alexandre in terms of fit. Although the schools have amazing athletic departments, school pride and are both big public universities, Michigan does not feel like home. The people here are very independent, rich for the most part and in some regards stuck up. I have gotten used to it of course because I find myself developing these characteristics. MSU is more laid back and chill and not as cut throat as Michigan. One could even argue that EMU feels more like home than Michigan. I’ve worked and collaborated on projects in lab, etc and when I see the people I collaborated with outside of the classroom, it’s awkward and they pretend they don’t know you. I will say that I don’t deal with many of these problems because I have found my niche here. I have many friends that range from undergrad to grad. I still love the school but there are differences in terms of fit. Michigan is not laid-back as a whole. The people involved in Greek life are laid back. That’s my opinion though.</p>
<p>Sent from my iPhone using CC</p>
<p>"Second, Michigan has more universities focused solely on business not because people balk at the idea of a prestigious Michigan business education, but because the demand for business graduates outweighs the number of people who get into Michigan. Overflow goes to the schools you mentioned, be it through rejection, life circumstances, or simply finding a better fit at one of these schools, all of which are perfectly good reasons for not attending Michigan. That’s why being “immune to the charms of prestige” is the most ridiculous thing I have read on this board in a long while; it’s tantamount to saying that those people are ignorant of the resources Michigan has to offer. You’ve equated prestige with waste and some vague and undefined superfluous aspect of education, these “bells and whistles.” </p>
<p>Lots of states have one really good biz school that not everybody can get into; so why don’t they have a bunch of open-admission business-oriented colleges like Michigan has?</p>
<p>A lot of people in Michigan ARE unaware of UofM’s national and international reputation…lots of posters here support that position. And some of the people who know about it still don’t see the value in going out of their way to try to go there or even apply there. It’s like UofM is the prettiest girl in the school, but that doesn’t mean EVERYbody is dying to date her. I don’t know what you’re so agitated about. Nobody’s saying UofM isn’t great; we’re just saying that plenty of people are satisfied to go elsewhere for a variety of reasons. </p>
<p>Re the bells and whistles comment, I’m NOT saying things like a huge sports program, cutting edge research, highly paid faculty, and an amazing library system are in any way a waste. But they also certainly aren’t mandatory to get a degree that has some value, as plenty of Walsh and Cleary grads will tell you.</p>
<p>By the way, I have no dog in this fight…didn’t go to MSU, UofM, Cleary, Walsh, or any of the other schools being discussed here. But I’ve lived in the state on and off for a long time, and am just reporting the attitudes I’ve seen over and over again.</p>
<p>The best way I can put it is, as an OOS student, I never considered MSU. I think that is pretty common. If Michigan peeps don’t realize what they have then their loss</p>
<p>choosing based on quality of education and prestige alone: Michigan wins by a lot.</p>
<p>In terms of choosing schools OOS, to be honest I don’t know why OOS people choose MSU at all. It costs about as much as Michigan and does not really have a reputation like U of M has nationwide. I still think its a good school, but with the money you could go to much better schools for the $40000 total or so that it costs to go to MSU per year OOS.</p>
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<p>I agree somewhat with Entertainer. Michigan and Michigan are not the same. I didn’t attend either school for undergrad study, but I also saw Michigan State as more hospitable to working/middle-class students and underrepresented minorities. My views might be outdated (I graduated from high school nearly ten years ago), but there was this common perception among my peers that, while Michigan was an excellent university in its own right, the undergraduate body was not racially and socioeconomically diverse (most Michigan in-state students came from upper-middle-class households and most out-of-state students – NY/NJ/CT, IL, CA, etc. – had money to spend). </p>
<p>Another very obvious clue today is the new private high-rise student housing complexes across campus, where the starting rental price is from $1,100 per bed. Why are these rents so high? The real estate builders know that the average Michigan student comes from a wealthier background and will pay for such amenities. Meanwhile, the average Michigan family (outside Ann Arbor and typical upper-middle-class suburbs such as Northville, Grosse Pointe and most of Oakland County) is suffering economically. Since 2000, the median household income has been declining in the state. Michigan’s tuition is so high that it is not surprising the undergraduate student body is not socioeconomically diverse. In return, some students act arrogant and oblivious to the suffering around them.</p>
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<p>MSU offers better scholarship money to more OOS students. I can’t think of a single person I know off the top of my head that pays OOS rates- but most of the people I know from OOS are in the Honor’s College.</p>
<p>I know someone who paid full freight to attend MSU for four years from OOS at the RCAH there. She graduated Phi Beta Kappa and is in graduate school at Michigan. Btw, she loves A2 much more than EL.</p>
<p>Most RCAH type people like AA better than EL. In fact, probably about 20% of RCAH students are from AA.</p>
<p>“MSU offers better scholarship money to more OOS students. I can’t think of a single person I know off the top of my head that pays OOS rates.”</p>
<p>how many students from msu are from out of state. 10%?</p>