<p>I am accepted at all 4 schools... want to study Music, theory or ed. I didnt apply to Shepard School at Rice because I'm not into performance (mistake?). Rice, Williams and Davidson all have no-loans finaid, but Olaf requires loans. I know that Olaf is less selective, but has great vocal music program. i'm interested in choirs, choir directing, music theory... Should I go to one of the LACs for a BA Mus (or other major at Rice & just take music classes) or should I go to Olaf? Need help real soon!</p>
<p>If you’re interested in music, St. Olaf would be a great choice–it has one of the best music programs in the country. Of course, a no-loan package at one of those other schools would be hard to turn down. St. Olaf does offer significant music scholarships, although it may be too late now. You could always ask St. Olaf if you could still try for a music scholarship.</p>
<p>St. Olaf is definitely the place if you are interested in choral music. They are a very very good music school - but a world-class <em>choral</em> music school.</p>
<p>You might also want to dig out your St. Olaf admitted student package and find the cd of the various choirs and listen to it before making your final decision. St. Olaf is quite different from the other places on your list, but it really is tops musically speaking.</p>
<p>I agree with other posters about St. Olaf’s choral music program - we were also very impressed with St. Olaf overall (my current senior applied and came very close to enrolling there). </p>
<p>That said, given the no-loan packages from the other schools, I would research the department offerings at the other schools and get in touch with faculty at these other schools if you have specific questions. I was very impressed with Williams’ music department when my son visited - he had an interest in jazz piano and vocal music. We stopped by the music department and found the faculty very open to discussing the program and independent study opportunities - he was able to meet with the head of the department and the choir director without any prior arrangements - he was given a tour of the facilities (so he could scope out the practice rooms) - and was connected with a current music student who was able to answer more questions. My son definitely thought he would get the kind of attention he wanted there.</p>
<p>Thanks for all your help. I’ve been listening to lots of the choir recordings… do they sing anything BUT classical? the choirs all sound great, but the repertoire might be a little (dare I say) boring…?? This question makes me look at Williams again. </p>
<p>Also, will I have enough opportunity at St. Olaf, given that I will be one among 275 music majors, rather than one of 20 at Williams? Is the competition so stiff at Olaf that I won’t even get into the top choir? </p>
<p>It seems like the only choir that tours is the St. Olaf Choir… do the other choirs have tours? The Williams choir tours every other year, right? </p>
<p>Williams and Olaf have entirely different campus feel… right?? Or, is the Lutheran aspect at St. Olaf “in name only”?</p>
<p>What about diversity… is it really true that Olaf has all blonde norwegians? (Ha! My family background is Swedish, but I am NOT BLONDE!!) Since such a percentage of students are from MN, do students from other regions/internationals feel stifled?</p>
<p>I was able to visit Olaf during the summer (not many students around) but have never been able to visit Williams.</p>
<p>We have visited Williams twice and St. Olaf twice - once without students and once with students at both places - probably know more about St. Olaf since my daughter was there for the Buntrock scholarship weekend and was able to do an overnighter with a St. Olaf student.</p>
<p>I cannot answer your specific questions about music departments or choral programs - those are best addressed by college faculty, current students/families, or alums. I can tell you how the two campuses felt from one family’s perspective.</p>
<p>We had also heard that St. Olaf had an all blonde student population - did not see that when we were there. There are many students from Minnesota - close to half - but we tend to like the whole “Minnesota nice” thing (our son is at Carleton). Definitely, Williams feels more diverse and probably is. The students at Williams feel very focused/driven - the environment does not feel as relaxed. Williams is more isolated than St. Olaf - although both are in small towns, it is easier to get to the twin cities from St. Olaf. Faculty, students, everyone seems very nice and incredibly supportive at St. Olaf. St. Olaf also is very up-front about its religious affiliation and religion requirements - initially, our daughter was fine with that but decided she would prefer an environment with less of a religious tone. Our son (the one at Carleton) really liked Williams and its music department but fell in love with Carleton - spent a lot of time with faculty and students there. You will have to answer the question about whether you want to be in a smaller program or a larger program with more faculty, etc. Our son knew he wanted to be “a big fish in a small pond” - so far, he’s had many opportunities to perform, has arranged music for his acappella group, and has developed wonderful relationships with faculty members where he’s at. Just one family’s perspective.</p>
<p>Just a few more thoughts - we’ve also visited Davidson several times - my son liked the music department at Williams better. Have also visited Rice - cannot tell you how much attention you would get if you are not part of the Shepherd school.</p>
<p>At this point, perhaps you could contact the music department at Williams and ask if they could connect you with any current students or alums who are doing or have done what you want to do - and talk with them directly about their experiences. I think an excellent choral music program is guaranteed at St. Olaf. You probably need to get more information about the Williams program and then compare them.</p>
<p>I think it would be difficult to be super involved in music at Rice without being in Shepherd. Williams is an amazing school, wonderful education, amazing campus environment, I have heard the music program is strong as well. Have friends who were in theatre there and loved it. I also have been amazed by the long standing, family like connection between classmates who graduated together.</p>
<p>St. Olaf has wonderful music, do not know much else about the school.</p>
<p>Davidson is a wonderful liberal arts college, do not know much else.</p>
<p>The choirs at St. Olaf do specialize in classical and sacred music, but they also do folk music and there are smaller a capella groups that do popular music.</p>
<p>The competition for the top choir is stiff, but if you don’t make the top choir, you will probably be happy singing in one of the other choirs. The other choirs also tour annually, usually in the midwest.</p>
<p>St. Olaf, of course, does have a distinct Minnesota-Norwegian-Lutheran identity, but students from other states and faith traditions feel comfortable there. Only about half of the students are from Minnesota, and probably around 40% are Lutheran.</p>
<p>thank you for all your replies. You have been a great encouragement to me and all your comments are HELPFUL!</p>
<p>Keep posting… I’ll def. let you know when I reach the final moment of decision. :)</p>
<p>I want to echo John2698’s responses.</p>
<p>Pretty much all the choirs tour. The five major ones tour at least once a year from what I recall. The orchestra tours at least once a year (10 day). These stats would be easy to get from a quick call to the music department head or even the music department secretary.</p>
<p>And the beauty of St. Olaf as a choral major is that even the freshman choirs are absolutely amazing. While there is zero guarantee that a vocal major will get into the “top” signature choir (the St. Olaf Choir) - the majority of vocal majors work their way up into that choir. Put another way, when I was there only a handful of actual vocal majors did not eventually get into the top choir, and yet these people never lacked for opportunities within the other choirs and related activities (conducting, composition, giving recitals, etc).</p>
<p>The reality is that while there are 275 (I am using the OPs stats as is) music majors at St. Olaf, there are more than enough <em>top notch</em> music ensembles to absorb those numbers. If Williams really only has 20 students declared as music, I question the diversity and the overall quality of ALL of William’s ensembles when compared one-to-one to those at St. Olaf.</p>
<p>I don’t know what you mean that a campus would feel “Lutheran”. I think there is a tad of Scandinavian/Norwegian pride for certain - but many aspects of that is done in a fun way. Everyone gets to be a little bit Norwegian while at St. Olaf in the same fun way that everyone is a little bit Irish on St. Patty’s day. </p>
<p>As for the <em>Lutheran</em> aspects: There are opportunities to go to a daily chapel or Sunday service - but lots, dare I say, MOST kids don’t bother unless it speaks to them in some way (community, curiosity, or spiritual). Even the required religious classes can be very ecumenical or philosophical in nature - the Bible and Apartheid (political/historical look), Problems of Religious Thought (philosophy), Vices (philosophy) and many comparative Religion classes. The classes emphasize critical thinking and writing skills - and it fits into the overall school goal of a well rounded liberal arts education. So while some kids groan at the idea of fulfilling the Religious classes requirement, most kids who attend will say the classes were top notch and the offerings came from many different angles. </p>
<p>All the kids are not blonde, though most are a bit above average in looks and abilities (a silly nod to Garrison Keiller’s ‘Lake Wobegon’ shtick, which is a great introduction to mid-western humor). </p>
<p>If you are on the fence, I would urge you to call the schools with those specific questions about opportunities, # of choirs, tours, class offerings in music. Do note, however, when St. Olaf says all their choirs are top notch, they can back it up!</p>
<p>Also, while it doesn’t sound like you are instrumental and thus you might be tempted to overlook the <em>top notch</em> 90+ member orchestra (and a chamber orchestra and at least 2 great bands) - not to mention a small cohort of very amazing piano performance majors - having such a strong instrumental aspect to St. Olaf pays off for vocal majors in amazing ways.</p>
<p>1) pianists available for your recitals and juries
2) collaborative events between choirs and orchestras … I will never forget Mahler’s 2nd Symphony, or some of the Oratorios I participated in
3) the amazing Christmas festival - 5+ choirs, orchestra - 5 nights, 5000 spectator audience that is sold out each night - goosebumps experiences you will NEVER forget as a performer.</p>
<p>With 275 music majors (plus music minors and many other-major students who are also very talented who participated) there are just so many ensembles, recitals, guest recitals, concerts and class offerings. Something is ALWAYS happening in the music department at St. Olaf.</p>
<p>thanks for the info on the choirs. since my last post, I have talked to the departments at both schools. yes, i agree that the St.Olaf vocal music stands out. and now you have confirmed it, too! </p>
<p>One question on another angle… how do the schools compare academically? Williams has better stats as far as test scores and lower admit rate… how do the classes and student body (in terms of academic ability) compare? does St. Olaf have that “intellectual curiosity” or “quirkiness” factor? some posts I’ve read on other threads say something about “it’s more like high school.” What is that referring to??</p>
<p>I think you need to ask yourself the question about academic balance. In terms of academic intensity, the environment at Williams will probably be more consistently challenging. However, I think you can certainly find that level of intensity at St. Olaf, depending on the courses you take. My daughter was able to attend a Great Conversations class at St. Olaf and came out of it very enthused about the students and level of discussion. She liked the academic balance at St. Olaf, and she is a high achiever - but she’s also watched two older siblings go to schools known for being more academically intense - and started the college process with “balance” as a goal.</p>
<p>Thanks for helping me! I’m an Ole!!!</p>
<p>Congratulations! I think you will be very happy at St. Olaf! </p>
<p>One last thought - if you were accepted to Williams, Rice, and Davidson, you should have been in the merit aid pool for St. Olaf. You didn’t say if merit aid was part of your original St. Olaf package but, if you did not apply for merit aid at St. Olaf, you may want to ask admissions/financial aid about the possibility of getting merit or music scholarships in future years. </p>
<p>All the best to you!</p>
<p>Congratulations! I am a bit envious since St Olaf was my favorite of all the colleges we lookes at with our D over the last year. I thought it would be a perfect fit through the balance of its exceptional academics and opportunities in the performing arts for non-majors. The student body and community feel on campus were in a class of its own. D ultimately chose another college, primarily because of her concerns over whether she could handle the winter months. We have a younger D that will be looking at colleges in a few years and St Olaf will be our first visit.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Um Ya Ya! Congrats!</p>
<p>yes, I did receive merit awards and a need-based Fin Aid package. In my situation, the significant difference between the schools was the inclusion of loans at St. Olaf. However, the fin aid office was really responsive as we worked out the details. I am trying to apply for whatever outside scholarships I can find right now to make up the gap. (a little late in the process, i know, but…) I’m not sure how they come up with the EFC, but it seems pretty challenging for my family.</p>
<p>anyways, I’m psyched and ready to get started at Olaf! </p>
<p>any tips on winter wardrobe??? (no winter in my home location!)</p>
<p>Nice warm Muk luks for your feet. Many students were wearing them. Also those Andean woven hats with the ear flaps. Very prominent on campus besides being warm!</p>