<p>We have planned our August college trip and will be in both NY and Boston. My D is interested in the combined BA/MM programs with Columbia/Julliard and Harvard/NEC. We found info on the websites about tours at Columbia and Harvard, but can't find info about tours at either of the conservatories. Do they not have info sessions/tours like other institutions?</p>
<p>They definitely do. We've been to Juilliard, we happened to be in town for something else and just called their main number and asked for admissions. You do have to reserve a spot ahead of time.</p>
<p>NEC also has tours....we've been on them. Call to make a reservation.</p>
<p>Good luck with this plan and think safety!!</p>
<p>There is a lot written about the difficulty and arbitrary nature of the admission process for selective colleges. Conservatory admissions are an order of magnitude worse. Conservatories like Juilliard often prescreen and still have admission rates well under 10%. Conservatories have very many extremely talented applicants. Admission is determined not only by a 15 minute audition, but by the needs of the conservatory and the whims of the studio heads.</p>
<p>Finding a conservatory that will also allow a student the opportunity for a double degree outside of music is also a problem. My daughter did not even apply to Juilliard or MSM because of their policies. For a double degree, she found the best opportunities existed at ESM/URochester, Peabody/JHU, CIM/CWRU, and NEC/Tufts. "Safeties" were Ithaca College, BU, and NYU. (She made a couple of her top choices and will be attending Peabody/JHU.)
Again, good luck. Also consider starting the audition prep instead of making visits. There will be plenty of time to visit during the auditions.</p>
<p>Hi, edad. Audition prep is on-going. D is up at Interlochen in the Advanced Vocal Program right now. She's found Oberlin and Lawrence have opportunities, in addition to the ones noted above. After doing a bit more research, I think we've decided to do as you recommend...box the tours and wait for auditions...if she decides to go that route. I think she's more looking for a double major rather than the combined 5 year program.</p>
<p>Most conservatories offer tours at the time of auditions.Edad is wise to offer the advice ofusing this time for audition prep.You will have to travel again for auditions, the expense of travelling twice seems unwise,unless you feel you must see the schools in advance to make audition decisions.
I also echo the advice on looking for musical "safeties"..although I dont think most conservatory programs could be considered safe for anyone.Hopefully your childs list is way longer than your post indicated.
Edad,my D had looked at Peabody/JHU at the time she was going through admissions.I would love to hear how your D adjusts, the logistics of their double degrees/locations/schedules seemed somewhat daunting.</p>
<p>Quiltguru: Sorry I forgot Oberlin. My D was not interested but did apply and did a remote audition. There is also a new conservatory at Bard, but she had seen Bard and would not apply. There are a lot more choices other than conservatories. My D was determined that she did not want to do music unless it was conservatory level.</p>
<p>Cathymee: I agree the double major sounds very demanding. JHU and Peabody seem to have this worked out fairly well for scheduling. Transportation is quick with a bus running every few minutes. My D will need to handle 22+ credits every semester for 5 years in order to get both degrees. The vast majority of students drop the double and go one direction or the other. Only time will tell.</p>
<p>I'll be the opposite voice here...if your student plans to major in music, I would suggest trying to visit the school and taking a lesson with prospective teachers BEFORE you go through the application process. If your student is a rising junior, this should not be hard to schedule. For rising seniors, it may be too late to do so at some schools. Yes, it was an expense to go to each school twice (once for a tour and once for an audition), but DS felt so strongly about knowing the type of teacher he might have that we felt this was money well spent. All of his trial lessons were done either the summer following his sophomore year, or during the winter/spring of his junior year. When he went for these auditions, he also did the campus tours and interviews (where offered). There were schools he crossed off of his list because of these trial lessons...he really didn't like the style of the teacher. As you've read here before...for a music major, the relationship of the student and private teacher is the most important component for most students. That private teacher will spend more time with you over four years than any other single person. Because DS did all of his visits prior to the end of his junior year in high school, he had very ample time to prepare his audition (which he worked on at Tanglewood in the summer, and then with his private teacher during the fall). For his audition, DS actually chose a piece he had played before, knew well, and could be polished. His teacher suggested that he do this saying that learning a new piece was not necessary as long as the piece was one that was sufficiently challenging...and DS's piece was.</p>
<p>I'll second Thumper on everything. My S also was able to cross off a good school because he did not click with the teacher. He is at Juilliard, but he is not attempting any sort of double major. His idea was to throw everything he's got into his undergrad music and see where it takes him. If the road gets rocky, he can always get a master's in something else.</p>
<p>He did visit Juilliard prior to applying, but was not able to get a lesson with the teacher. We simply didn't give ourselves enough time to set anything up. He did a lot of research, talking to other pros who knew the Juilliard teachers, though, and felt comfortable with it. I do think he may have been a bit more confident at his audition had he met the teacher(s) ahead of time (auditions are not blind.)</p>
<p>I will also go out on a limb here and say that I do NOT think it all has to do with the 15 minute audition. Certainly that was very important, and if he bombed, who knows what might have happened. But he had an impressive resume and application, and I certainly think that helped. (It's a limb because obviously I don't know what all goes into their decisions, but they did have his application in front of them and talked with him about it during the audition. Why do all that if it doesn't mean anything?) </p>
<p>Oh, and by the way, the application WAS the "prescreening" - at least on my S's instrument. I think the website might tell you who has to send in a prescreening tape.</p>
<p>Actually I agree about the importance of the teacher-student relationship. Unfortunately it is usually the teacher who makes the decision on which students to accept. Prior to auditions, my daughter knew several of the teachers. The world of music is small. She also learned about many of the teachers from other teachers or students. In a couple of cases, she applied even though she was not enthusiastic about the teacher.</p>
<p>At Peabody, she did not know either teacher and she did not know anyone who knew them. Peabody claims they hire teachers based on teaching, not just performance, skills. We found this to be true. Both teachers made arrangements for private lessons in the evening of audition day. In addition to the lessons, they spend time in discussion and later emailed. My D would have been happy with either and ended up having her choice. Sometimes we must just believe things will work out to be as they should.</p>
<p>What a timely post for me! These are just the thought that have been swirling through my mind for the past few days. S is at Tanglewood until mid August, home for 3 weeks, then off to Interlochen for his senior year. Although he's visited and had lessons at a few places of interest, we are simply out of time now. I think his strategy will be to apply and audition based on teacher recommendations and reputation, then go for a lesson after he knows that he's acccepted, if that's necessary for him to make a final decision.</p>
<p>Of course, this is all based on the optimistic thinking that he will be accepted to enough places to have options. Which brings me to my other big concern: how do you apply the reach, match, safety plan to conservatory admissions? Other than selectivity (which is pretty scary, IMO) we don't have any admissions stats to go by. I am a former college professor with years of experience on admissions committees, and this is way out of my comfort zone. Any advice will be appreciated.</p>
<p>Except for perhaps the exceptionally talented, there are no major conservatories which are safeties. I don't know about voice, but for instrumental performance, there seems to be a major drop to second and third tier music schools. These schools just don't attract top teachers or serious students. Most are dedicated to training for secondary school music teachers and have lax training and admission policies. My D's "safeties" were Ithaca College (not difficult), NYU (she had an "in") and Boston U. She was not accepted at BU. IC was a last resort. She would have had good merit aid and NYC opportunities but NYU is not strong in music. Her last resort as a safety would have been a state university. As a HS student she was playing in the state U orchestra and said she would give up music if that was her only choice.</p>
<p>S's plan so far is to apply to 4 major conservatories. A few are off the list for various reasons such as location, teacher, etc. The ultimate safety is flagship state U, where S has also played in the orchestra and taken lessons for several years from the top teacher - definitely not a "love your safety" for him, as he is ready to move on.</p>
<p>So now we need to come up with a couple more middle of the road options. Although he truly wants to go to a conservatory and I agree that would be best for him, I don't think he'd be happy at the lower-tier ones that don't have great teachers, serious students, or orchestras at least comparable to Interlochen or Tanglewood. He's thinking about some of the larger universities with good music programs such as Northwestern, U Mich, Indiana, and Boston U, but this opens up another big question about how grades and test scores factor into university music school admissions?</p>
<p>Unlike Binx's S, mine didn't wait until college to throw himself into music (lol, his music resume is much better than his academic record), and with a 3.0 GPA and 1150 SAT he certainly won't be academically competetive for admissions at any of these universities, and they just might be reaches, too. Or could it be that the kids with the stats < 25%tile are the great musicians like my S?</p>
<p>mommab: what is your son's instrument?</p>
<p>edad: He plays the trumpet.</p>
<p>mommab, Have him apply to Indiana in September. Whenever they open the process. They have rolling admissions and he will know right away if he is in and he should be. Then he has to go through the audition process with them. I would have loved my son to have chosen Indiana since it has so much to offer as a campus community and the music there is tops. The early acceptance at Indiana for the university is a wonderful thing. Then all he has to do is get prepared to apply to the school of music. If they want him they will offer merit money. Someone else can help him with the situation at the other 3 big universities that he has on his list.</p>
<p>I wish I had done this: try to get a handle on how good he is in relationship to the rest of the competition. As a mom, I suggested my son apply all over the place because I really didn't know. It is important to get some real authentic feedback if you can. It turned out my son was competitive everywhere he applied. I really had no idea. I am not a music person. Knowing what I do now, I would have suggested he cut down his applications from 8 to 4. The application process for music school students is relentless. The fewer the better.</p>
<p>As far as travelling for private lessons, the OP didnt even mention that her S wanted them as part of their "tour",therefore I thought perhaps just travelling for tours was wasting $$ when they would have to travel again in the Winter/Spring.
I really have to respectfuly disagree with Edad on what he deems the lack of quality in "2nd and 3rd"tier music schools.They are not only dedicated to producing music teachers...and if you are putting down the process of training music teachers...well, who started your child on their road to music in the first place?
There are reasons teachers/faculty choose where they are teaching..employment in orchestras that might not be in epicenter city menas you accept a teaching slot at the U in that location.Not every professional musician can be employed in Boston,Ny or San Francisco.Some faculty relocate to an area and like it so they stay and find their opportunities there.Some are recruited,and the offers are enticing.When Rice decided to make the Shepard School of Music a priority and raise its status,they "stole" faculty from all over...$$ was the key.
Sometimes it can pay for a student to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond (regional vs NY or Boston)..more playing opportunities comes to mind.Grad students at Indiana populate the local symphonies...is this possible in NY or Boston?Students at D's alma mater...large western state U are the only game in town,they get plenty of gigging opportunities.</p>
<p>mommab, I'm sorry if I gave the impression that my S didn't "throw himself into music" prior to college. Nothing could be further from the truth. He would not have had the resume he did if that were true. He decided at age 10 to become a musician, and followed quite a narrow path from then on. (He was, however, also good academically.) My point was only that he chose not to double major in college with a "safety" degree.</p>
<p>One of the advantages of "trial lessons" before applying is that a student often can get a feel for whether or not the teacher thinks he would be a good fit there. In my S's case, he chose to only apply to 4 schools, all "reach" conservatories, and nothing else. He was prepared to take a gap year if necessary, (with an eye toward studying in Germany) but he did feel rather confident with his choices, based on the teacher reactions and interactions. Teachers at various camps also made suggestions of where they thought he would fit, or even invited him to apply to their schools. In a few cases, he was told NOT to apply to their school -- usually because the teacher frankly told him the music school wasn't of the highest quality.</p>
<p>Academically, your S might be a "fit" at Cincinnati. As with Indiana, he still must audition for the music school (CCM). Neither of these music schools can be considered a "safety", though. Both have excellent reputations, but I don't know anything about their trumpet departments.</p>
<p>Some schools, like Univ. Michigan, "require" a certain level of academic achievement, but also have a caveat that they understand musicians who have been busy pursuing their craft may have lower scores, so they will take that into consideration.</p>
<p>By the way, Juilliard doesn't even require or look at SATs.</p>
<p>The Hartt School is a highly regarded, if not top tier, music school.
It is part of the University of Hartford in Connecticut.
They offer substantial merit awards based on auditions.
Our son applied last year, nonbinding early action and received an acceptance and award by December.
Perhaps a school to consider?</p>
<p>mommab,</p>
<p>My son will be starting at Indiana U in August as a trumpet performance major. My son is a bit of a late bloomer in music. Although he started playing the trumpet in 5th grade, he never got serious about music until his sophomore or junior year in high school. His junior year he made the lower of our city's two youth orchestras. That experience made him realize how much he loves music, and he was able to move up to the top orchestra last year. He has never even been to a summer music program (although he is going to one this summer).</p>
<p>His acceptance to Indiana is really a case of serendipity or the grace of God, depending on your beliefs. He made an audition tape in the fall, just before it was due. His band director forgot to show up to help him, so he and a friend muddled through it at the high school. It was probably not his best work, but he sent it off with his application. Several months later, when he got his acceptance phone call, he heard the rest of the story. Apparently the first trumpet prof to listen to the tape was ready to throw it out. The head teacher, however, asked to hear it. He listened several times and couldn't decide, as he told my son, whether it was bad playing or a poorly made tape. Then he actually took the time to call up my son's two private teachers to ask for their opinions. They must have said good things, because my son was accepted! And the head teacher agreed to to take my son into his studio. (This man is REALLY nice!)</p>
<p>Indiana does have an excellent trumpet department, as well as a great music program overall. And I really don't think the admission requirements to the college are that bad, although my son had great academics, so I can't say for sure. I do agree about applying early, however. We did NOT do that, and we likely missed out on some much-needed financial aid because of that. The early bird catches the worm, as they say.</p>