Music Schools for Voice and Opera

College Majors Music Major
21

<p>D will be visiting Rice in March. Spoke w/ head of voice who was very nice and we will take a tour, sit in on classes and possibly take a sample lesson. Vocal Dept head wasn’t high on sample lessons before auditions…but I think we would like to at least meet the voice studios to get a feeling…</p>

<p>Did our FSU and was completely blown away by their music school facilities, courses and Prof Brister who spent a good deal of time w/ D.</p>

<p>The pre-visits in the jr. year will help D as both schools are on opposite ends of the spectrum i.e. population, public vs private, small town vs urban. So she will at least get a chance to compare the outwardly parts of Music Colleges.</p>

22

<p>At Rice you can sit in on any or all studios from 3-5 on Fridays. In studio you can watch the interaction of the professor and students and listen to current students. March may be hard, though, since the opera is on then and many studios will not have their advanced students in them during performance and rehearsal time. Just contact the office and they can tell you where the studio classes are meeting. We were always welcome.</p>

23

<p>srw – I agree the teacher is important. He has had good connections with teachers so far at Indiana, NW and he still needs to take a lesson with someone at UMD and Rice.</p>

24

<p>Which schools will be best for you depends entirely on what you’re looking for in any given school. When i was looking at schools, it was helpful for me to divide the schools into some categories:</p>

<p>Exclusively Arts Conservatories:
Good schools in this category include The New England Conservatory, The Juiliard School, Curtis Conservatory, San Francisco Conservatory, The Manhattan School of Music, Mannes College of Music, Eastman School of Music (sort of) and some others. These schools are almost exclusively focused on the development of their students musically (Eastman does have some other coursework, but the focus is 99% on music.) For some people, that focus feeds their love for music and helps them grow into even better musicians. For others, that focus can be suffocating. I’ve had close friends attend these schools: Some become amazing musicians, and others find themselves dreading their lessons. As a voice major myself, it can sometimes be contradictory to hear a teacher tell you constantly to free the body, when they’re also commenting on your every move vocally. If you attend one of these schools, pressure like that will always be on, but those who survive it will be VERY well off for the wear. If you want a strong choral program as well as a good studio voice program, don’t attend any of these schools. </p>

<p>Conservatory/Liberal Arts Hybrid:
Good schools in this category include Oberlin College, Rice University, Lawrence University (the Wisconsin one), Depaul School of Music, Johns Hopkins University, Bienen School of Music, Blair School of Music, Yale School of Music, and others. These schools still have rigorous studio voice programs, but also are interested in developing singers who are smart in other areas (not that the other schools aren’t, but they do less about it.) These schools offer both strong music programs and acclaimed liberal arts programs. Often, students will double major at these schools between the conservatory and the liberal arts school, to give themselves a better chance at employment as well as make themselves more rounded individuals. These students also often find careers in music, though maybe a little less often than in the conservatories. They, however, have more options for employment, as their degree(s) has more weight than a straight conservatory degree for opportunities outside of music. Be sure to check if these programs are BM or BA programs, as that will determine the thoroughness of your education in music. Some of these schools have strong choral programs, but others don’t. Personally, i’m impressed by Yale, Peabody and Lawrence’s choral programs, and they all have strong studio voice programs as well. Don’t go to Oberlin, Northwestern, or Depaul if you like singing in Choir. Yale’s focus tends to be a little more towards early music, while the other schools are more concerned with opera careers (you can still get a great opera education at Yale, though!)</p>

<p>State School Music Program:
Good schools in this category include, but are not limited to Michigan State University, University of Michigan, Jacobs School of Music, New York University, University of Cincinatti, Illinois Wesleyan University, University of Miami, University of Southern California, and University of Louisville. These schools are strong all around schools because of their vast resources in numerous areas of education. These schools often have strong voice programs with highly qualified faculty (their choral programs are usually so-so.) However, the faculty usually focuses much more on the development of graduate students than on their undergraduates. Don’t get me wrong, there is some great teaching going on at these schools, and the graduate students serve as great role models, but an undergraduate has to have a little luck in getting a teacher who cares just as much about their development as their graduate students. These are excellent graduate choices, but if you are an undergraduate, be careful about who ends up teaching you: it could become a sticky situation.</p>

<p>Liberal Arts Schools with good Specific Music Programs:
Good schools in this category include, but are not limited to St. Olaf College, Millikin University, Luther College, Valparaiso University, Augustana University, Rider University, Emory and Henry University, Brown University, Williams College, Pomona College, and others. These schools typically have strong choral programs, which is exactly what some people in music are looking for. However, studio voice programs in these schools are often tailored to the choral program, so while the vocal training is still fantastic, it’s not really the kind of training that leads to a career in opera. These schools boast academic programs from average to outstanding, and offer degrees in numerous educational areas. They are fabulous schools to start at, and easy to transfer credit from if it turns out that the school is not for you.</p>

<p>Vocal Jazz Programs:
I’ll be honest: i know very little about these programs. I’ve gotten some suggestions from some friends who are interested in vocal jazz, and they like the following schools: Peabody, Western Michigan University, Stanford, and Berklee School of Music. My apologies for not making a more comprehensive list for this category. Some of these schools are members of another category on this list. The capabilities of the schools in other areas vary, take a look at each one individually for more information.</p>

<p>Some Notes:
-I really like the undergraduate-only concept, so i might have been a little biased for it. However, it really does mean less competition for the attention of teachers.
-Educate yourself on the term lengths of each school- quarters can be fast paced and sometimes content gets skipped. Trimesters are a little better paced but make it virtually impossible to transfer in the middle of a year, and Semesters get lots of content in but quickly can become monotonous. Finals for Semester Long Schools are also particularly hard, as a student is trying to remember 18 weeks of content rather than 14, 12, 10 or even 8.</p>

<p>I hope this helps you as well as other students as they go about their search for colleges. None of these categories are better or worse than the other: They each work well for different kinds of people. I wish you great success wherever you’ve decided to go.</p>

25

<p>^A very informative attempt to summarize, but I suppose I would like to note that there is considerable department-specific overlap between the schools you classify as Conservatory/Liberal Arts Hybrids and State schools, which in many cases are ALSO Conservatory/Hybrids. The distinction might be better described as “Private” schools with a Conservatory-style School of Music and “Public Schools” with a Conservatory School of Music…in terms of admit rigor and talent, there really is no “tier” of quality here – for example you’ll find waitlisted vocal applicants at Michigan are accepted at conservatories and vice versa. You’ll also find top ranked academic programs at a wide range of both State and Privates.</p>

<p>For example, this statement:

…most certainly applies the University of Michigan which typically academically outranks (both in world rankings and USNews) many of the privates on your list. (World rank overall ug is #15). In other attempts to rank graduate MUSIC programs (granted, an impossible task), you will often find that State and Private schools plus conservatories are in effect absolute peers – eg. Eastman, Jacobs, Umich, Julliard, Thorton, NEC (among others) are all pretty close together in Masters, Composition, Conducting, Opera Voice, Orchestra etc.</p>

<p>So while your post is extremely helpful, I’d encourage students to make the further distinction between the DEGREES, not whether its a public or private school, and the reputation and fit of the profs. Eg. A BMUS = a particular and intense sequence of courses; predominately music. A BA is typically more balanced between academic and musical application but can also be suitable for composition. A BFA (many jazz programs, for example, including jazz voice) have an application concentration but perhaps fewer upper level western theory (jazz theory instead) or musicology requirements…and more improv or studio requirements. </p>

<p>One last thing I want to add for consideration is the value of graduate students as mentors. My son (obviously, from the slant of my post :wink: attends UMich where he receives an ENORMOUS amount of personal attention both inside and outside his small classes from his department chair, the associate dean, his advisor, and every other prof he’s encountered at the SOM. In addition, he is blessed and enriched through his association with some outstanding grad student mentors, either as GSI/support; recording assistance or even as secondary instrument (and voice) instructors.</p>

<p>So while I appreciate the argument that there are advantages of being in a program that is undergraduate only, I feel there are an equal number of students who benefit from the presence of grad students as well. (And I realize this issue is much more poignant in the case of opera where there is such intense competition for leading roles, etc.)</p>

<p>At any rate, hopefully that gives additional insight to students. SO many variables, and so many possible FITS ;)</p>

26

<p>@krossk</p>

<p>The University of Kentucky is a MUCH better school than the University of Louisville, and has a wonderful opera program. Gregory Turan is among its alumni. My niece is in the UK Opera orchestra as a cellist this year, and she chose UK over Rice. UK is a great value as well, its out of state tuition is lower than many state universities’ in-state tuition. It does offer full scholarships for music; my niece got one.</p>

27

<p>I don’t know where to start with this list of schools and the generalizations made about each category. I think I will keep my ten foot pole handy.</p>

28

<p>While there may be some helpful information in krossk’s post, there are some factual mistakes, most glaringly calling USC and NYU “state schools.” These are private universities. And Yale school of music is a “consevatory/liberal arts hybrid?” No, it’s a fully funded graduate school. Now I’ll borrow musicamusica’s ten-foot pole. ;)</p>

29

<p>Yale SOM is not an undergrad program.</p>

30

<p>…putting on limbo music…</p>

31

<p>Wow, I don’t think i’ve ever seen so many people make such strange comments about my post. I’m going to try to address all of them. I am sensitive to the fact that most people on this forum are parents who want to be supportive of their child’s decision, but remember that no matter what school a person goes to, there will be pros and cons. </p>

<p>There are numerous cases of students at state schools who get extraordinary attention from their teachers. A person’s education in these schools can be just as good as anywhere else. However, that does not change the fact that at some schools with some teachers, undergraduates are given less attention. Also, though this is a generalization (the nature of which i will discuss in a moment) undergraduates attending an undergraduate-only institution will still get on average, more attention than state schools because teachers at state schools tend to have larger studios. This does not make the education any less valuable, but it is a risk to be considered when looking at schools.</p>

<p>I am making some very sweeping generalizations on this post, largely out of necessity. There are students who will excel at any of the schools on this list, but i am articulating some fairly common (and frankly, valid) concerns that should be considered when evaluating a program.</p>

<p>There is, indeed, a great deal of overlap between the different categories i named. This will be true of any system made for such things. The fact remains, however, that liberal arts/conservatory hybrids tend to have more general education requirements, and thus require a broader education of their pupils. There are state schools which are just as strong (if not, stronger) than some liberal arts colleges. However, the environments still have marked differences.</p>

<p>I think people will find that i made no attempt to “rank” any of these programs or categories. They present different options for different personalities. If a person wants an environment with a large student body and lots of options for classes, they should attend a state school; if that person wants an education of exclusively music with highly rigorous coursework, they should attend a conservatory; if a person prefers to have a more rounded education in a more intimate environment, they should attend a hybrid, etc.</p>

<p>You’ll notice that i do mention (though briefly) that a student should consider BM’s vs. BA’s. I don’t know much about BFA’s, to be honest. How do those differ?</p>

<p>Some graduate students are highly helpful, others are not. It depends on the particular situation. I only wanted to note that the potential exists for problems in that area. Even then, generally it is preferable to have a class taught by a professor than a graduate student (simply by sheer chance of having an informative experience.)</p>

<p>I never contended that this was a complete listing of schools worth considering, and i’ll admit that i know more about east coast and midwest schools than i do about west coast schools. I’ve heard good things about the University of Kentucky, but i wouldn’t be so quick to say that they’re better. Just because some students chose UK over Rice doesn’t make Rice not worth considering. It depends entirely on what a student wants. State Schools offer some great tuition bargains that can make financing college much easier.</p>

<p>I am aware that in some respects, USC and NYU are not state schools. I was unclear about that: i was talking primarily about the environment of the schools, rather than simply on their legal status (i believe they both receive copious amounts of state funding, but i’m not sure about that.) having visited both of them, attended classes there, and having close friends who attend both, i can say that how they work is similar to a state school. I apologize for not making that distinction.</p>

<p>Totally my fault on the Yale thing. Yale has been in the front of my mind lately, and i wasn’t thinking about the context of my post. It is, indeed, a graduate program.</p>

<p>This was not meant to be a “list” of schools, and generalizations are a major part of how people select colleges. When a person says that UMich is ranked #15 in the country overall, they are not saying anything substantive about the classroom environment, but rather how certain very particular people view the program. That, however, does not make the rank unvalid. Remember that every judgment a person makes about the validity of a program without experiencing its environment is a generalization. In my college search, i attended at least one sample class or lessons in about 65-75% of the schools that i mentioned in this post (i applied to a lot of schools!) I’m simply relaying common pros and cons articulated regarding different kinds of schools.</p>

32

<p><<i am=“” aware=“” that=“” in=“” some=“” respects,=“” usc=“” and=“” nyu=“” are=“” not=“” state=“” schools.=“” i=“” was=“” unclear=“” about=“” that:=“” talking=“” primarily=“” the=“” environment=“” of=“” schools,=“” rather=“” than=“” simply=“” on=“” their=“” legal=“” status=“” (i=“” believe=“” they=“” both=“” receive=“” copious=“” amounts=“” funding,=“” but=“” i’m=“” sure=“” that.)=“”>></i></p><i am=“” aware=“” that=“” in=“” some=“” respects,=“” usc=“” and=“” nyu=“” are=“” not=“” state=“” schools.=“” i=“” was=“” unclear=“” about=“” that:=“” talking=“” primarily=“” the=“” environment=“” of=“” schools,=“” rather=“” than=“” simply=“” on=“” their=“” legal=“” status=“” (i=“” believe=“” they=“” both=“” receive=“” copious=“” amounts=“” funding,=“” but=“” i’m=“” sure=“” that.)=“”>

<p>If you don’t want to set yourself up for criticism, then do your fact-checking before you pontificate. It’s just simple self-preservation. Your post is riddled with errors that could do harm to anyone who takes your essay at face value, which could certainly happen because of your didactic tone. As for more sophisticated readers, your errors quickly erode any initial sense of trust in your authorial voice. You become an unreliable narrator.</p>
</i>

33

<p>Um, pass that pole, please, and can we please try to avoid further posts which attempt to “Rank” schools? This happens now and then and it gets out of hand- even the “major” mags/books who thrive upon list making don’t rank schools of music any more because of the vast difference in programs.
What may be good for one person may be a disastrous placement for another since there are so many factors to take into account. Start early, travel and see what you can for yourself and always have options, because you may find a teacher that you love now, who may no longer be affiliated with the same school when you go to apply or a school’s program philosophy may undergo a shift… Trust me, it happens.
But, that’s all part of this world of “the arts”; if our kids wanted absolutes, they’d be running track or swimming the 400 IM!</p>

34

<p>^I didn’t mean to open the whole box of snakes about ranking when I referred to peer schools and taking issue with the structure of the categories but the poster was referring to my comment about rank. I was simply trying to demonstrate that the categories don’t actually mean anything about specific program quality because one will find a leading department in EVERY type of category - public state, private, lac, conservatory, etc. :wink:
Further, academic rigor and reputation is not reserved wholly for the privates, so I took issue with the distinction implicit in the apparent academic supremacy of the “conservatory-liberal arts” category. The real world simply doesn’t fit the model. Some big schools have very small studios in their schools of music, and vice versa, and many do not have gened requirements for BMUS majors (the latter of which was implied in the reference to the conservatory/l.a. category. Etc.</p>

<p>I appreciate what the poster was attempting to accomplish. Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to achieve except on a case by case and department by department evaluation of individual fit ;)</p>

35

<p>kmcmom13 wrote <<i appreciate=“” what=“” the=“” poster=“” was=“” attempting=“” to=“” accomplish=“”>>.</i></p><i appreciate=“” what=“” the=“” poster=“” was=“” attempting=“” to=“” accomplish=“”>

<p>krossk has made only three posts on CC: two identical essays entitled “Your Search” and his/her defense to the “strange comments” about this post. As a self-appointed expert, krossk should have put more time into research and fact-checking. I don’t think the issue is that krossk was ranking schools so much as creating an inaccurate taxonomy. </p>

<p>The internet is filled with misinformation (just google “how to play violin.”) I’m not sure what krossk was trying to accomplish-- this might be a dry run of an essay for school or a blog post, but s/he deserves to be called on it.</p>
</i>

36

<p>I think there is a certain amount of youthful sock puppetry at play here.</p>

37

<p>musicamusica, aha-- yes, now I get it.</p>

38

<p>Eastman School of Music is part of the University of Rochester. Many students take classes on both campuses (about 10 minutes apart with shuttle busing available). Students CAN remain completely focused on music, music, and more music, but also have the opportunity to expand their focus as well. Eastman IS a stand-alone music school in a sense, but it’s also an excellent conservatory attached to an excellent liberal arts school. I just thought it was very important to clarify this!</p>

39

<p>@Hedwig9672: I put (sort of) after Eastman on the conservatory list because, though there is an option to study at University of Rochester, the grand majority of the BM candidates do not have the time or the patience to do this. The conservatory education there is outstanding, but leaves time for little else. I should have expanded on this more in my post, but i decided my essay was already too long, and decided that since not many conservatory students find the time or reason to use this option, i didn’t need to be extraordinarily specific about the option there. Additionally, Eastman/URochester differ from hybrid schools in that the two schools are not integrated in the same way as, say, Oberlin college, where requirements and proximity wed the two programs. I apologize if my lack of specificity confused anyone.</p>

<p>@glassharmonica: I apologize for my error about Yale, though i think my evaluations of NYU and USC as having the environments of state schools is valid. It is not my intention (as i have now said several times) to create any kind of ranking system, but rather make some broad generalizations that, while not helpful in helping someone choose the school they wish to attend, can help students examine what different kinds of educations are available to them. College admission (and indeed, those who comment on them) is often a game of smoke and mirrors–there are elements of all schools which the admissions department chooses to dwell on (and perhaps give undue attention to them) as well as “drawbacks” which are not mentioned or thrown under the carpet. Students have a good, albeit incomplete, picture of the school they attend, whereas parents’ understanding of a school comes from some visits and a lot of secondhand information from their children. I don’t know if i offended you with my errors regarding Yale, or my lack of explanation in an already very long post on some specific schools (which i still regret) but i still do think that acquainting prospective students with the different types of music education that are out there and giving some examples of what schools fit these loose and often nebulous categories is what i did. Additionally, i believe this general information will be valuable. None of these schools fit any artificial categories perfectly; these classifications work in much the same way as the study of demography. For example, “Black people are poor” would be an offensive and wrong statement, though it contains the kernel of truth of demography that the preponderance of African Americans in America are still disproportionately poor in comparison to white Americans. The same is true with music schools. Eastman does not perfectly fit the conservatory category as described above, but it fits this category better than the hybrid category largely because of proximity, requirements, and student choice. neither category is perfectly appropriate to it, but in helping prospective students see what kinds of schools are out there, some generalizations must be made, as no two schools are exactly the same. These generalizations, i believe, help students decide where they wish to apply far more than the thousands of posts by parents on this forum stating that such and such a school is “The best school in the world” when such statements are clearly biased and miss the point that there is no “better and worse” among these programs; there is only different.</p>

<p>@kmcmom13: agreed. a case by case analysis of each school is absolutely the best way to evaluate a school. However, with so many good schools in this country, it is unfair to expect a student to do such with the hundreds of good schools he or she could attend. I don’t want these categorizations to be used by students trying to choose between schools to which they’ve been accepted, but i think it would be useful in getting a student thinking about what sort of school they’d like to attend.</p>

40

<p>Great suggestions and thoughts on where to go for voice. My son, a baritone senior, will find this information useful.</p>

<p>Just a few notes about choral singing vs solo singing:
Keep your eye on the prize as a solo singer… however…</p>

<p>Don’t knock singing in a choir. There is often more work for good ensemble singers (The Met, San Francisco Opera, L.A. Opera, Chicago Lyric Opera, film and tv soundtracks, etc).</p>

<p>Being able to blend and harmonize are skills that are handy for solo singers who also must sing in small ensembles in operas (Quintets in “Carmen” & “Magic Flute,” sextet in “Lucia di Lammermour,” etc.)</p>

<p>Singing in a choir does not have to be forever; just another skill to learn and a possible way to earn some extra cash while pursuing a solo career. Just don’t get pigeonholed as a choral singer if you want a solo career. Do it temporarily in school, or as a paid ringer in a church/synagogue choir.</p>

<p>Opera chorus singers are paid fairly well such as The Met Chorus as it’s a full-time job. L.A. Opera pays okay, but it is only a part-time/temporary job and one may not be hired for every opera.</p>