Music + Science at a university?

<p>Doing a performance major and a science major is certainly possible in the double-degree program at Oberlin.</p>

<p>Of all these options, the most doable high quality program is Oberlin's. Oberlin has strong pre-med, an excellent conservatory, they are on the same campus, they have course schedules that fit together easily, there are 150 + practice rooms open until midnight, and there are 30-40 students in every class who are in the BMus/BA program, so there is a lot of cameraderie and institutional support, not the case at most of the other options you mention.</p>

<p>At most schools the problem is with the labs conflicting with practices of performance groups. The OP should realize how competitive admission is to the top performance programs, too.</p>

<p>violadad:
Thank you so much for all of this information. I realize that the possibility of completing dual degrees at Columbia/Juilliard or NEC/Tufts or Harvard is slim, and I must say that I am not sure what I want to get out of my passion for cello. To be honest, the thought of giving everything up to pursue solely music - solo performances, etc - is very frightening. I hate to be arrogant or to toot my own horn, but I'm not a terrible musician. In fact, this past summer (before my junior year of high school), I met with one of the professors from UMich, and he has invited me to study with him, and earlier this year, I met with the cellist at the San Francisco Conservatory, he heard me play, and offered to introduce me to the professor at Northwestern.<br>
As for what I want in the future, I want to be continually improving and learning more about music and I want to be able to take lessons with great teachers and perform on a regular basis. BUT, I want a steady career - medicine. Is this too much to ask? I might be overstepping bounds.. maybe a little too ambitious?</p>

<p>Chedva:<br>
I didnt know that existed! Although I'd prefer taking lessons with the professors at Eastman, that's an interesting program, and I'll definitely look into that. Thanks!</p>

<p>Thank you everyone, again and again!</p>

<p>Shayna, I'd give you the same advice that I give kids who want to study art but don't know if they want to go to a single focus art school or a "full service" university or college. You have to decide what kind of environment you want. If you want to give music top priority and be surrounded by like-minded musicians who think and do music 24/7 then you should go for the conservatory route. If you want to take a wide range of courses and have friends who are studying everything under the sun then you should consider doing a dual major at a liberal arts program at a university or college.</p>

<p>Neither is the right or wrong choice. I've known several music majors (from Williams, my son's almamater -- very talented musicians) who have go on to professional graduate schools in fields like law or medicine. Some of them double majored in seemingly disparate fields.</p>

<p>So, yes, this is doable, but you may have to sacrifice some of the musical intensity that you would get in a conservatory setting.</p>

<p>This also begs another question: Do we know anyone who put in the time and effort at a conservatory and then went to medical school? I'm sure it happens, but it seems counterintuitive.</p>

<p>Shayna, without knowing a bit of your musical background, my intent was to make you aware of some of the potential issues. The Peabody article I linked to is the best I've ever seen in providing a clear overview of musical "types" and I hope it helps.</p>

<p>As momrath says, the conservatories tend to be all music 24/7. Conservatory level programs attached to public and private universities and colleges offer those seeking stronger academics and exposure to non-musician students and paths, and a more "typical" college experience. These will give you the broadest options in choice and ability to explore the potential of dual persuit.</p>

<p>As stated Oberlin seems to offer the best of both worlds to many, but some find the location or atmosphere quirky or liberal; the same is often said of Bard. Some will object to UMich because of size. Parameters of size, location, urban/rural, cost & financial aid will all be factors you should investigate.</p>

<p>For an undergrad musician playing at or close to a conservatory level, teacher selection and peer quality, ensemble and ipo opportunities are paramount. While some programs may provide an excellent academic experience, the music may less than desired, but the majority of schools detailed will provide the best of both worlds. </p>

<p>The Ivy/Ivy like combo programs are very narrow, and accessible to very few, and admission to any is a crapshoot, musically AND academically. Most are structured as dual admits, and there are also institution specific parameters that vary in terms of private instruction, additional tuition & fees. The best info is from former or current participants of each.</p>

<p>Investigate the opportunities available musically at the schools mentioned. Pay attention to the different policies regards music and non music majors in regards to instructor access, lesson times and costs, ensemble restrictions. Look at the course outlines and know the differences between the BA and BM variants. As Chedva said, there are opportunities for non-majors at Rochester, Hopkins, Rice, Oberlin and others. The key is knowing the opportunities and policies are institution specific. You need to dig into the music webpages (and often the undergrad handbook) of each. There are no general rules.</p>

<p>Again, there is great depth of discussion within the music major forum. Should you wish to pursue it, I'm more than happy to point you to specific threads and topics.</p>

<p>As I've said, anything is possible. Son has played with Ivy grads with both non music undergrad degrees and MM and higher conservatory credentials. There are also BM holders in law and medicine who populate a few chairs in community and regional pro orchestras.</p>

<p>Here's a link to Rochester's music department, which awards BA degrees.
College</a> Music Department</p>

<p>U Mich has a strong cello department; sounds like a good option for you. Northwestern is also a possibility, of a similar kind though it is private vs. public.<br>
By the way, having visited Bard and knowing Oberlin well, I don't think they are in the same category, either academically or in terms of "quirkiness" - Oberlin has a long history of academic and musical accomplishment, plenty of nonquirky students, and is strong across the curriculum, i.e., in sciences as well as the humanities and social sciences. In that respect, it is more like Wesleyan or Brown than Bard.</p>

<p>I always find this discussion amusing. Math-Science ability and musical instrument ability are about as correlated as inhaling and exhaling.</p>

<p>Any school that has smart math-science people with have about a third of them quite proficient at their instrument -- especially strings and piano (which also has strings) :)</p>

<p>I know a young woman who is a very gifted violinist. She is a prodigy and made her Carnegie Hall debut when she was 15. She wants to be a pediatric surgeon. She is currently majoing in violin performance at UW-Madison studying with a highly regarded teacher. She is taking all the pre-med classes she needs and plans to apply to medical school when the time comes. I am sure that violin will always be a part of her life but it is not something that she wants to do professionally inspite of her talent. Music majors have a pretty good admission rate to medical school. If you take all the required premed classes, get good grades, and do well on your MCATs I think you will have just as much of a shot at med school as anyone else even if you choose to pursue cello performance as an undergrad.</p>

<p>However, it can be very difficult to do a performance major and take science classes because of conflicts with labs and ensemble rehearsals. The tend to be scheduled at the same time. You have to look carefully at how flexible schools are in allowing you to meet both sets of requirements.</p>

<p>Northwestern may be a good fit. The quarter system allows one to take more courses more easily. The chemistry department is particularly strong. Out of the 7 Rhodes/Gates Cambridge Scholars they have this year, the following majored in science or music or both.</p>

<p>Yermakova (biochemistry, piano, and the history and philosophy of science and logic)
Braxton Boren (music/Class of 2008)
David Dillon (German and chemistry/Class of 2008)
Chandler Robinson (chemistry and mathematics/Class of 2006)</p>

<p>Four</a> Awarded Rhodes, Other Top Scholarships
Five</a> Northwestern Students Awarded Gates Scholarships</p>

<p>As people have mentioned the distinction between conservatory dual programs, etc. A consideration in the Columbia situation. 1) you must apply to both schools, which is why they mention its competitiveness. However, 2) Columbia itself has a top Music program, one of the top graduate programs in Music, especially in a non-conservatory setting with very strong faculty in any number of fields. The university has the oldest continually operational orchestra in the country, numerous ensembles, and relationships with Carnegie Hall, Lincoln Center etc. 3) Consider living in New York and continuing to perform. 4) One of the top science faculties in the country. You can major in music with pre-med, major in biology and just take music courses as it is not audition. Similar advantages to the proposal put forth around University of Rochester and their Music Department.</p>

<p>Columbia has a top music program for academic music study, i.e., theory, history, composition and ethnomusicology, offering only BA, MA, PhD, and DMA degrees (composition); it has no classical performance faculty and few practice rooms -- students can audition for lessons with adjunct teachers for lessons. The orchestra is ok - but not as good as a good youth orchestra, in part because the Juilliard-connected students are generally not in it. There is chamber music, and some great venues for those who successfully audition (including Weill Hall at Carnegie Hall). Some students take private lessons with Juilliard teachers, some get a bit of funding to pay for the lessons. The Exchange program has recently been revamped. Our experience with it was that it is not high on the radar screen for Columbia -- students accepted to both Juilliard and Columbia rarely get into the Exchange program, which is a 5 year BA/MM program, with lessons for 3 years, then an audition for admission to the MM portion. They have in mind students of the Yo Yo Ma or Alicia Weilerstein caliber (she actually went to Columbia, while performing on cello), who both had "management" when they started college. The program now also involves an additional fee. You could try to get lessons privately with one of the many teachers in New York.</p>

<p>Thank you all so much!!
In case anyone was wondering, I ended up applying Early Action to Stanford, and I did a life audition there mid-October. I was accepted last Friday, and plan on attending there in the fall! Fortunately, I have an amazing teacher up in the Bay Area that will keep me on my toes in terms of music, so everything has turned out wonderfully! Thanks again for all your advice!
Sincerely,
Shayna.</p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon Muhlenberg</p>

<p>Thanks for updating us ShaynaSkim. Congrats on Stanford!</p>