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Princeton Admissions would readily admit that IF they used the primarily stats-driven criteria for admission that Berkeley does, then Princeton freshman classes would be more Asian in composition. That is not the same thing as saying that their classes would be more qualified. That is the equation that cannot be substantiated or even evaluated.
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<p>I do have to say that holistic admissions does allow colleges to add in their own discrimination but never be called on it.</p>
<p>After all, the primary instigation of our current "holistic" system was the influx of the "undesirable" Jewish students that were "threatening the integrity of American higher education" with their high test scores and "greedy, immoral personalities".</p>
<p>While I personally believe that stats aren't king, it should be acknowledged that such system can be used to persecute and have been used to in the past in this very manner.</p>
<p>At this point, the Jewish student denials have been seen as racial discrimination, and in hindsight, some might label the current situation similarly.</p>
<p>Having said that, though, to compete on the basis of purely numbers tends to make the college bodies unbalanced and unable to take students that would contribute greatly. There's no silver bullet for this particular problem.</p>
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Princeton doesn't want the narrow SES makeup of the incoming freshman classes at U.C. Berkeley. (Overwhelmingly middle class, about half-Asian, & over 90% Californian.)
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<p>Asian and Californian are hardly monolithic categories though.
The variety between most groups is quite great and different regions of California have radically different cultures.</p>
<p>Having admitted that, I do have to acknowledge that within the finer ethnic groups (Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, etc) there are great similarities, as well as between geographic locations.
This is, however, not that different from most ethnic groups and geographic locations. So Berkeley isn't exactly THAT narrow.</p>
<p>It's narrower than would be preferred, yes, but not stiflingly so.</p>
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The tone of many of the posts by Asians on CC is the part that I think bothers me the most -- not even the part about supposedly higher scorers are "more qualified," which is so uninformed & such a narrow world view. There is a "persecution" attitude, as if Asians have been singled out as more rejected & more waitlisted than whites. Well, if proportionally speaking you apply more exclusively to top-tier Universities, with fewer non-top-tier U's included than your Caucasian peers with similar qualifications, you can expect that the mathematics will bear out such results. But not nearly as many whites come on CC whining about their superior qualifications for HYPMSC + MIT/CIT, & how unjust their waitlist or rejection was. Yet a way larger group of highly qualified whites are rejected every year from the same colleges that their Asian peers are rejected from. The difference is in expectations, and in the way the rejection is perceived & handled (overall). Proportionally speaking, way fewer whites see these results as catastrophic, or as some grand cosmic injustice. It speaks to a very rigid understanding of just how many opportunities there are to succeed in this country outside of specific, particular institutions.
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<p>Ah, however, specific particular institutions continue to influence success in this country remarkably. Who can argue that Harvard and Yale have names that can make doors not only open, but practically fall away? Why is it that so many presidents are from those institutions, and so many executives are members of the same clubs, organizations, etc?</p>
<p>Part of the problem is that while you mention that many more whites are rejected, realize that quotas have almost never touched the white proportions. Reshuffling occurs within minority groups.</p>
<p>A Black would replace a Hispanic who replaces an Asian, in a sense.
Caucasians aren't part of this equation.</p>
<p>One Wong doesn't equal a White.
For that matter, neither do two, in terms of admissions quotas.</p>
<p><em>shrug</em> You are right that there is a far more ingrained attitude in Asian culture based on academic institutions, but that's true of most of the rest of the world. "Public schools" in Britain, for instance (not--mind you--public schools in the American sense).</p>
<p>And as said, even to a point, America has that with its most elite institutions.</p>
<p>It's good to question, though. It could very well be discrimination, considering history, and airing it out to light wouldn't hurt, even for colleges, unless they truly have a policy that is discriminatory.</p>
<p>I must admit that the entitlement of some posters is extremely obnoxious, but I find that quality tends to cross ethnic lines.</p>