<p>just to chime in, I think this is a CC syndrome.....anyone who is taking 3 AP classes is certainly doing fine and an 1830 is obviously above average....</p>
<p>But it unfortunately is this mentality that makes kids "feel" dumb.....and if you think your D is dumb, don't come to my house.....D2 has no honors, no AP's, 3.0 GPA. I don't think I'd want her to meet you; she already thinks she is stupid.</p>
<p>My first impression on reading the OP: Troll.</p>
<p>I don't understand that in earlier threads, the OP had posted: </p>
<p>"My son is an only and went off to BS 20 miles from home with three of his 8th grade classmates. It might not be for every kid, but mine loves it and has thrived in the environment. On vacations, he spends a lot of time with me; and there are lots of breaks throughout the academic year, so it is not as though your child disappears from the face of the earth.</p>
<p>I do miss him.</p>
<p>Linda C."</p>
<p>Some folks change things a little bit when they are getting too personal. I don't think this is a troll. Even if it is, the premise of the post is a good one. I have heard this lament in our area so much. I have felt twinges of it at times.</p>
<p>Cpt, your explanation makes sense because the rest of the OP's posts don't look like the OP is a troll.</p>
<p>Part of my problem with my kids was that I had some expectations for them that I had no business having. Yes, my kids have issues with laziness, motivation, slacking, etc, but I also have issues. I guess because they had things a lot easier than H or I did, I expected that they would soar beyond us academically, which was an area H and I did do well. It does not work that way. It's been a hard lesson to soak into the brain to accept some things about our kids, yet always showing opportunities, giving advice, helping without being overly intrusive. Such a balancing act. I feel that my kids could have done better than they did, and I know that is was certainly possible, but I have had to learn to keep it from becoming a sore. I find it easier to enjoy my son who does not have excellent test scores and who does have to work and study hard, as I feel he is doing closer to the best he can. I guess my other kids were doing the best they could too, but had other issues that were in the way. How to accept some of these things without making excuses for them is a difficult balance.</p>
<p>You, like myself, probably live in a bubble world where what you think as average is skewed. By definition, 1830 is 330 points above average and that is just the kids who take the SAT, a higher level group to begin with. Anyone who can take an AP course and do well, is not "average" if the group you are looking at is all the 17 year olds in the US.</p>
<p>Instead of average, think of her as "normal"; most people who are not great athletes or musicians don't find their calling in high school. Who wants to peak in high school anyway?</p>
<p>Just do your best not to communicate your attitude to your daughter; they are good at seeing when they are letting you down.</p>
<p>One of the major problems with this website is the impression generated that all 18 year olds are superstars. We in many cases see in the " chances sections" outrageous stats of students. I don't believe a lot of them. Another issue is that we expect children to be fully and perfectly formed, to know exactly what they want out of life and have all the tools to achieve their goals. Most 50+ year olds don't know what they want out of their lives and many are unhappy as to the course their lives have taken. Expecting this from children is outrageously absurd. Take heart, a lot of students who appear to be superstars today will burnout quickly.</p>
<p>One of the major problems with this website is the impression generated that all 18 year olds are superstars</p>
<p>I would disagree- I think we see what we look for.</p>
<p>Could be, emeraldkity, but I'd agree with DocT that this forum can present a skewed perspective of the average teenager. IMO, CC is not the place for an insecure student or parent. Many of the kids we read about on here are well above average academically and are also highly accomplished. I also feel intimidated when I see how much these students have accomplished by junior year of high school. I haven't accomplished that much and I'm an adult. My older two kids, though well above average, don't have the breadth of activities so many of the CC kids do. It makes me feel guilty that we aren't good at time managment or have some other flaw. </p>
<p>My youngest is well below average, and I'm feeling very scared about what her future might look like. Kind and caring doesn't pay the bills, I'm afraid.</p>
<p>I cannot respond to every statement individually, but thanks for so many insightful comments and sharing your own lives and situations. cindysphinx GETS it, Serafina poses an interesting question, and cptofthehouse KNOWS how I feel but is much farther along the trail of embracing his child and accepting the child without blaming him(her)self for some perceived wrong step along the way.</p>
<p>My student has had music lessons (our home has no less than ten instruments in it); art lessons; travel team memberships on two different sports; enrichment programs in the summer; wilderness programs; and lives in a house full of books. Last evening when D was on the Facebook, I asked her what she liked; she glowered and I amended "on the Facebook." She brightened and listed what her Facebook profile reads: tennis; guitar; and anime. The fact that she took guitar from a brilliant teacher two years ago and became, briefly and quickly, an amazing beginner, and has not picked up said guitar in two years crossed my mind. Cut from the Varsity tennis team, I guess it is still an interest but the racquet is hiding in a closet somewhere. She loves to draw but is hopelessly awful at it; I actually should amend this to say that her primitive style is actually interesting for how basic it is. Her drawings look like a four year old did them. I once asked her to draw a holiday card for our family and the finished product was unusable. She of course is surrounded by friends whose drawings look like da Vinci did them. As I said -- average with no special talent, no special expertise. It is almost laughable. Her best friends have been nominated for full ride scholarships at major universities. She applied to one college (out of several) that virtually no one has ever heard of. </p>
<p>I really have to think and HOPE that those of you who have said she has not found her niche or have not yet been exposed to it are correct: this is because she went to a two week program in a really remote place as a volunteer to an organization with young children (many from inner city homes) last summer -- totally different environment than anything else she'd ever experienced -- and loved it. So I have to say that I never thought of it in that way. This does bring up the question, how to ensure a college will not be too much like high school, although the director of the afore mentioned organization did recommend a college which we subsequently visited and an application has already been submitted. It is also possible that she might be skilled in computers but since she has always had one and uses one daily, it may have been overlooked, such that it is part of the landscape. She is excellent at fixing little network bugs and such on her computer. Not writing programs in UNIX, mind you, but knows how to wiggle the right cables to get the thing going. </p>
<p>cpt of the house's description of his child sounds very familiar in that I have always recognized my student to be a people person but not in a gregarious way, more in the way of a stalwart and a reliable friend. In fact, if I had to pick a strength, that would be it, and that may be the problem -- the strength is not a science fair project, a four year Varsity sport, a flair for theatre, editor of the school paper, or high SAT scores.It definitely has never escaped my notice that the garrulous kids are the ones perceived to be bright and the ones to whom the attentions and the awards go; my student is quiet and has a low key personality. One of her scores on a standardized test was high enough to go to to some Duke U program for gifted kids and take the SAT as a 7th grader but I did not pursue it (probably a good idea now, knowing what I know re the SAT and scores). For the record, my student took the PSAT twice, the SAT three times. Score came up from 1670 to 1830.</p>
<p>From reading these responses, I also sense that northeastmom is right in that it would be difficult to obtain a four year degree after taking time off, and that my D's time is now. Yes, the four year degree path may not be the best one, but education is rarely wasted, and as a credential for today's society, it can be invaluable and open a door or two. Of course, I would rather pay for a two year vocational program that would lead to a job BUT a four year degree is manageable, financially. Whoever said college is the new high school gave me a new way to look at this. If the worst that happens is that in four years I have an unemployed Sociology major on my hands, then I will deal.</p>
<p>As for comparing, I actually think my D does this, too, and wonders why her performance is comparatively abysmal - for about ten seconds. She would never think of coming on this discussion board and putting her essays up for critique or asking for chances. That is just not her way. She wrote her college essays during a five-day period of the summer vacation, showed two to her English teacher in September, revised them, had her counselor proofread them, and they were done. NOT brilliant, NOT earth shattering, NOT creative, but I felt they truly, truly represented who she IS, particularly her very young, naive ideas about the world. The Lion King essay contains an interpretation of the story that made me think, "Well, they will know her parents didn't help her." And perhaps that is also one of the clues here, that for some reason, my student is not particularly sophisticated, rather very simple. And yes, not dumb in that basic skills elude her, I know that, but so many things need to be explained. </p>
<p>So you can continue to think I am a horrible parent and call me insane, but I would assert to you that my blinders have been ripped off and that the budding young scientist-musician-scholar that we indulged with so many extras is just an average teenager who prefers to play video games, chat with friends on the Facebook, and watch South Park DVDs over and over again. She does not take the car out for hours, she does not use drugs, she does not have a black trench coat wearing boyfriend, and she does, often, seem open to suggestions, she has had a best friend since age 7 with whom she is in daily contact when school is not in session, so yes, I know my observations appear harsh and cruel, but I just wonder how a non-academic superstar fits into the 21st century in terms of education and vocation. And yes, the colleges that would take her are the third tier LACS with 45K per year tuition and the few in- state publics where I fear she would fall through the cracks.</p>
<p>You just never think, as a yuppie parent in the late 20th Century, that your baby is going to grow up to be average. Nor do you ever anticipate thinking that your baby would be so much better off going into a plumbing program than spending four years taking six units of a natural science, six of a physical science, a math course above Calculus, one upper-division foreign language course, and 36 units in the major only to graduate with absolutely no skills that translate into earning a living. (Do I need to add here that my student could never gain entrance into an engineering program, much less pass the courses?)</p>
<p>Most of us are average.</p>
<p>I think that what bothers the OP the most is what she perceives as her D's lack of a passionate interest in intellectual pursuits or a particular area of study. To the OP, her D is average with regard to that, more than with respect to her academic ability. My D is similar, and I'm sure it's worrisome to send such a child off to college because you're not sure how she'll fare, with what she will occupy her time (anime and Facebook?), whether she'll find something that interests her enough to focus on, and whether her chosen major will lead to employment.</p>
<p>I was raised by parents who spoke of us as 'investments'. When my sister got pregnant and dropped out of college, my father ranted and raved about the lousy return he'd gotten on his "investment." Unfortunately, I think we're all socialized to think at least a little bit like that -- It's hard as a parent to do without the new winter coat and the nice boots and shop at Target so that you can swing music lessons and summer camp and all that other stuff for your kids -- and then NOT have a kid who becomes a great musician as a result and makes you proud and all that. When you think of all the nights you sat at the kitchen table doing algebra problems with a recalcitrant teenager -- when you could have been at the gym, or reading a novel or having a glass of wine and a nice chat with your husband -- it's kind of sad if the child ends up after all that tutoring hating math (and hating you) and doesn't really seem to pay you back for all the time and effort you put into the whole enterprise. I think it's maybe human nature to want some kind of payback for all the work you put into something (or someone). Maybe it's similar to the feeling you have when you put a lot of time into a romantic relationship with someone who then fails to reciprocate. </p>
<p>I struggle with our middle child who was recently asked by her teachers to leave the advanced math program due to her lack of maturity and effort. I struggle with knowing she will achieve WHAT she wants -- on her own schedule and on her own time.
To some degree, my solution has been to no longer give until it hurts -- I'm no longer willing to sacrifice financially to purchase math tutoring for someone who won't study, or reading tutoring for someone who won't read. And I work really hard at trying to see the big picture -- to take the same pride in her girl scout achievements that I take in her brother's concerto competitions. I try not to think of it as average -- but just as a different way of beng in the world. Not everyone's competitive, strange as that may sound. And I take joy in the stories a friend tells me about how pharmaceutical representatives tend to make C's in college and big bucks later in life.</p>
<p>This is an issue as well: I had limited resources growing up; went to 1.5 yrs of high school due to an extended illness, only had funds to go to the library, and wound up with a scholarship to a PhD program at a major university. (SAT scores much lower than my D's, for the record). BUT those were very, very different, very, very LOW TECH times.</p>
<p>The teens on CC asking for chances often have inflated resumes; I am sorry but Spanish Club, what does that mean? That they ate lunch in the Spanish teacher's classroom and discussed selling tamales to fund a trip to a foreign film? Okay, I get it, but why is that such a big deal on a college application? I found some very cheap/free summer programs at universities so D would have something to write down on her college applications...they sound good...and that is the only reason why she attended those...on her own, she started a club at her school that does less than the referenced Spanish Club -- in fact, I think starting and naming the club were the extent of the effort, but it also went down on the application and looks like much more than what it has been, to date. So, lots of gilding the lilly, you know? A more honest approach would be to list social networking as her main EC.</p>
<p>Most ECs fall into the average range. Even the long impressive looking ones. For them more selective schools, they only care about those ECs that are national, celebrity level or something that the school needs that the kid can provide. Otherwise it is average. They don't care what the laundry list of duties are unless there is one that can be worked into a theme for something that falls in the categories that interest the colleges. As for the less selective schools, the SATs and grades are pretty much what will do it.</p>
<p>What really intimidates me are the hobbies. How is it that these kids can take all AP's, be an officer in 3 clubs, play varsity sports, run a community service organization, and still have time to have some intensive hobby? </p>
<p>A confession: CC is my hobby.</p>
<p>Every once in a while, when I catch myself wishing my kids were a little closer to perfection, I have to recalibrate my expectations. </p>
<p>When I hear of a distant relative with a drug addition or a 15-year-old in our community who killed his entire family, I say, "Problems? I don't have any problems! So my kid gets an occasional C!"</p>
<p>If my kids end up self-sufficient, if they find a good person to share their life with, if they are productive and caring members of society, then my "investment" has paid off well. (But how much should I be nagging them about their grades, the little voice in my head continues to whisper....)</p>
<p>While I can understand financially why there may be trend to direct an "average" student toward a large state school, I think you really need to spend time and effort to get to know your daughter. Even at a first quick read, I had concerns that perfectly nice, caring teen that hasn't found her niche yet could easily get lost and just continue to go with the flow in a larger setting. </p>
<p>I would strongly recommend at least considering the type of school profiled in Colleges that Change Lives. She sounds like she really could use a mentor, in a caring close knit community where if she is spending all her time on facebook, and not in class, someone will notice!</p>