<p>quote--
The whole system of student loans would crumble and a lot of people wouldn't be able to be helped because of the bad apples.</p>
<p>Or maybe we as a nation might try to give education a higher priority and provide more funding to higher education. I went to school when Jimmy Carter was president and the priorities then allowed me to go to school.</p>
<p>OP -- So sorry you and your family are going through this. I just wanted to chime in with support of the suggestion that if there is truly a medical/mental health issue that makes it impossible for D to be gainfully employed at this time, it would make sense to defer the repayment of the loan. If the loan is some sort of guaranteed student loan -- the kind that never goes away -- then there is a mechanism to defer (as well as a mechanism to forgive) when medical issues either temporarily or permanently preclude repayment. It might take a lot of the pressure off the OP's finances, at least temporarily protect the OP's credit, and make it easier to send child #2 to college if D's loans were at least temporarily deferred. </p>
<p>I would imagine that someone in D's college's financial aid office would know more specifically about the conditions that must be met and the paperwork that is necessary for a medical deferral. If not, it might make sense to talk with someone in the Dept. of Education about available options. I think that banks availing themselves of the government guarantees are also required to follow specific guidelines in situations when the borrower is ill or disabled.</p>
<p>Finally, if D did drop out or take time off from college for reasons related to the health problem, that would seem to support the notion that the same problem might be undermining her ability to go to work right now.</p>
<p>the real lesson to be learned in all of this discussion is that, during the college decision process, students and their families should rationally assess the impact that student loans will have upon graduation.</p>
<p>We talk a lot about freedom in the good old US of A, yet many people make decisions which take away their freedom. Excessive student loans fall into this category. What to go on to grad school? Nix that idea-student loans to pay. Want to take that plum job in NYC or San Francisco? No way to swing both loan and high cost of living. And what about that "life of the mind" decision to major in English lit or philosophy? Loan anxiety may compel you to choose that more practical econ major. And as your friends are looking forward to independent adult life, you need to return to the nest for a few years until you get your financial feet on the ground.</p>
<p>Bad choices all, but choices founded on a decision made four years earlier. And read the OP. Wasn't that exactly the situation that family found themselves in?</p>
<p>all -- Great inputs. I am impressed with CC. The last poster's sentiment suggests this quote...</p>
<p>“The choices we make and the chances we take, determine our destiny.”</p>
<p>...but I still think that something stinks in the state of higher education in the usa today! OP should not be a social activist in her own situation if she does not want to be, but we should all contact our representatives to demand that the trillion plus we send into DC and to our state governments be allocated to funding more higher education options for more people. Seriously think about how we are choosing to spend our nation's treasure. Bombs or books? The world is shrinking. Education will out!</p>
<p>I saw the news item recently of the new 'oldest person in the world'. When asked the inevitable question on what advice she would give, this person, born in 1893 in Indiana, said...</p>
<p>"More education".</p>
<p>(she was a 1911 graduate of little Franklin College in Indiana)
<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20310925/%5B/url%5D">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20310925/</a></p>
<p>OP - hang in there. We're with you on this brief sliver of earth and sliver of time. And, a postscript to the original quote above: </p>
<p>"But for the grace of God, there go I."</p>
<p>
[quote]
...but I still think that something stinks in the state of higher education in the usa today!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Supply and demand, supply and demand. As long as we as a nation continue to indulge in prestige over practicality, humoring "elite" institutions and the media outlets that exalt them, shunning more affordable options (state universities and privates with good merit money), we have no one but ourselves to blame for the cost of higher education in this country.</p>
<p>But to an extent, I agree - part of why Harvard costs so much is that its financial aid for less fortunate families is so good. Higher education is only a rip-off for the middle class, who may not make up a sizeable enough part of the elite institution demographic (due to costs to them) to make a dent in tuition costs by even mass boycott.</p>
<p>I haven't seen the middle class left in the dust. I am middle class. S is not getting any need-based aid, but did get some merit aid. While there are many colleges that we'd have to stretch financially beyond our comfort zone for him to attend, there literally are hundreds of good colleges that we could afford. S is in a much better situation than are low income people, the overwhelming majority of whom can not get the financial aid that they'd need to afford college unless they did something like work 30 hours a week and go part time.</p>
<p>It's only the rare very high stat low income student who can get into the colleges like H that offer such generous financial aid.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Supply and demand, supply and demand. As long as we as a n ation continue to indulge in prestige over practicality, humoring our nation's "elite" institutions and shunning more affordable options (state universities and privates with good merit money), we have no one but ourselves to blame for the cost of higher education in this country.
[/quote]
I'm not an economist, so maybe I've got it wrong, but this quote sounds backwards to me. How would increasing the use of public tax-supported institutions lower the cost of higher education?</p>
<p>To the OP: Your family has my sympathy as I've said before. From personal exxperience I am certain that financial and emotional problems are inextricably linked, so perhaps that is why we have not been able to stay within narrow parameters of the question.</p>
<p>Taxguy: Yes, excessive debt is certainly not a good idea, but state schools often can't meet children's needs. Great when they can, and believe me if I lived in CA, MI, or NC I might have different ideas on the public/private issue.</p>
<p>celloguy and like minded posters: I think it's obvious that the US has been moving away from the idea of equally distributing resources since the sixties. Wealth is increasingly concentrated, as are its privileges. I also deplore this. In 1968 when I went to college not only was the public I attended better funded than it is now, but privates were also within my family's ordinary, middle class means.</p>
<p>About quality of education: As a CC teacher with a reputable, respected PhD I would stack my teaching ability against anyone's, yes, even as HYPS. The course in "creative non-fiction" D's guy friend took at Brown in which they only read Harper's Magazine had me shuddering. My CC students would get a much more stimulating and varied syllabus. However, the don't get the peers the Brown student gets and the "13th grade" mentality that often prevails among the students does seriously curtail the quality of the discourse, and thus, the quality of the education.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How would increasing the use of public tax-supported institutions lower the cost of higher education?
[/quote]
It would not lower it across the board, but on an individual level, more kids at state U means much lower tuition, and less chance of loans; with loan balances being lower as well.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"How would increasing the use of public tax-supported institutions lower the cost of higher education?"</p>
<p>It would not lower it across the board, but on an individual level, more kids at state U means much lower tuition, and less chance of loans; with loan balances being lower as well.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's assuming that they can take more kids at State U, that State U has unlimited capacity, doesn't need to do more building, hire more faculty, etc. etc. Those funds come both from taxes and from tuition. State U capacity is not elastic; it cannot just shrink and grow as necessary. </p>
<p>The law of supply and demand states that as demand goes up, so does the cost of the goods. If supply doesn't keep up with demand, scarcity occurs, which results again in higher prices.</p>
<p>Eventually, State U may in fact increase its supply without a reduction in quality, but most likely that would be in many years, and no one wants his or her kid to be the student in the interim.</p>
<p>quote--
Higher education is only a rip-off for the middle class, who may not make up a sizeable enough part of the elite institution demographic </p>
<p>When I referred to 'higher education' I did not mean elite education, but to post secondary education. It seems that the default point of view on College confidential is the thrashing about for the elite colleges. I dont truck in those. The closest I have come to those is a foray into Carlton.</p>
<p>When I ran the EFC / FA numbers, I found that Carleton was very close to the cost of University of Iowa and Illinois.</p>
<p>BUT all were real expensive, absurdly expensive, where the only way to pay is through loans+ - and we are back to the OP's problem (or variations on OP's theme).</p>
<p>Let me reiterate: cost of ALL college in the decade and a half has been going up at a rate much much greater than the cost of living (inflation). My solidly middle class salary AT BEST has kept up with inflation (it seemed to be lower most of those years, actually). ++</p>
<p>and yet, with the global economy, it is a NECESSITY for America to keep up with, nay exceed, china and india in education to enhance market innovation and creativity (please see Bill Gates who has said often that he'd be NOTHING without the r and d colleges such as U of I have done w/ computer innovation).</p>
<p>I still need to read the other posts. this is a quick clarification/elaboration.</p>
<ul>
<li>meeting need through loans is not really meeting need; it is only deferring<br></li>
</ul>
<p>++ quick definition on what I called 'solidly middle class': our houshold income is in the 70s. I am not sure what others, or the state, think is m.c.</p>
<p>Borrowing or pay-as-you-go are not the only ways to fund a college education. Many publics have prepaid tuition, room and board plans. If started early enough, they are quite doable for the middle class. Or, if someone doesn't want to go that route, they can put the same $ away in a 529 plan. Sure, may not appreciate enough to pay for a $45k a year private, but certainly enough for most publics. Or, a student can do what several of my music students are/have done and go to CC for a couple years, then transfer to a university. Students can also work each summer between after 10th, 11th, and 12th grades and save a surprising amount of cash. Students can also work part time during school to offset costs as well (and at the same time gain decent work experience, especially if their jobs are with the university itself). Between some or all of those things, a middle class family ought to be able to afford a decent college education.</p>
<p>As has been posted elsewhere
colleges expect your EFC will be paid though savings, loans and summer work ( for student) and income ( for parents)</p>
<p>Most people give some consideration to what it will cost to raise a child, when they decide how many to have and how to space them.
We just have two kids & they are 8 years apart.
( which of course insures that our EFC is as high as it can be )
Both kids planned on- participating in Americorps which gives an education award at the end of the year of volunteer service.</p>
<p>Some schools have merit awards
Some students get outside scholarships
There are also very viable options of state schools, or even community colleges if finances are really bare bones.
If expenses are really that difficult- attend part time community college while working full time, its a great way to save money.
My husbands employer, pays for workers to attend higher ed- it isn't the only company to do so.
Aside from a few students being fixated on the same colleges & others not realizing that college admissions has changed from 30 years ago-I do see higher ed has having improved.
More students consider college & there are more opportunities to do so.</p>
<p>doubleplay: You would think so, and all your suggestions are excellent, but it is not always the case for various reasons. Family needs really differ. I'm sure many would see my son's violin lessons as a luxury, but I saw them as a necessity, etc. The cost of living on LI is not something I really want to get into (too sad), but as a tenured faculty member I don't really have the option of moving. 9/11 played havoc with my husband's business so our "savings plan", which began day #1 was born (or even before) didn't work about. I am not complaining, because I am finding a way without burdensome loans (just a bare minimum of subsidized Staffords for one, Perkins for the other), but I also feel lucky. Not everyone is so lucky. Only 1 of our state's publics even offers one of the majors S was interested in, and it didn't work for him for other reasons. He is already past offerings at CC level. Just because a strategy works for some families, it does not mean it will work for everyone.</p>
<p>And I don't know about other states, but NY has been gradually withdrawing money from its public system. The quality of publics may not always remain what it is today; tuition has also been steadily rising across the country. This is true for CC as well; the CC I teach at just saw a significant tuition hike.</p>
<p>I'll share something here that I probably shouldn't, but my own kids probably would not get into the same LAC that the OPs daughter did; yet they were both offered fantastic merit scholarships at several good universities in the south (OOS). The fact is, many people do not believe that UGa, or Auburn, or USouth Carolina, or GaTech, or Rollins, or any number of others are good enough for them (although I'm sure their words would be <em>appropriate</em> for them). Yet those schools offer a smorsgasbord of great programs in a variety of subjects, have Honors programs, etc. So there is also a choice issue that's playing into the "woe is me, how can I get away with not paying back my loans?"</p>
<p>Our state flagship has been losing money at a steady rate for many years, and programs that were once much stronger, are no longer worth consideration for many high achieving students. Sure, my son could go there, and receive a good deal of merit money to boot, but if he has no (or very few) peers in his areas of interest, what's the point? He doesn't want a lateral move for college, and our state flagship would be at best lateral. Community college is obviously an even more untenable solution.</p>
<p>State flagships and CCs might be good options for some students, but they are clearly not the right choice for a good number of kids. And this brings us right back to the reason that people are facing debt for the "right" place for their kids.</p>
<p>By all means then, don't pay back the loan. It's obvious that for some of us, public schools or lower tier privates are appropriate but for others (the special ones) they aren't.</p>
<p>Isn't your son a music student? How about an OOS public like FSU? It's got a fantastic program, and although it's more than in-state public, it's not nearly as expensive as the OPs LAC. </p>
<p>That's my point, there are alternatives that don't involve going into extreme debt.</p>
<p>FSU- one of the TOP FIVE music programs in the country.</p>
<p>Since the OP's daughter attended an elite private LAC, my comments about supply & demand and middle class financial woes were in regards to similar schools, for which they still stand absolutely correct. This should have been obvious as it was in response to a poster saying that the OP's situation is indicative of some crisis in higher education, when really it is indicative only of a crisis within ourselves - the need to indulge expensive privates that are certainly not worth their weight in gold no matter how much they (and many parents and students) think they are. There is no student too good or with needs too special for an affordable state/private school - perhaps the local flagship is not a good fit, but there are most certainly 100s of other options before the 40K-50K/yr mark.</p>
<p>DP, I have seen that article on FS before, which references music education. That sounds like a terrific program. However, my son is interested in performance, on two instruments, in two genres. The number of programs that satisfy both, at his level, is very small (I'm not trying to boast...but it is a reality).</p>
<p>But-- we're not going into college debt, so no one needs to worry about our defaulting on any loans.;)</p>
<p>I had to respond because I'm from Florida and FSU most certainly has a music performance program, and is one of the most highly regarded music departments in the country, and not just music education.</p>
<p>I know of all-county and all-state musicians, musicians with histories of straight superiors, who have not been accepted into FSU's music program, or have been quaking in their boots worrying about whether or not they will get in. It is a very competitive and very reputable program.</p>
<p>"Florida State's College of Music has been accredited since 1930. Today, with a self-imposed maximum enrollment of approximately 1000 students, it's one of the most comprehensive schools of its kind in the nation, according to Gibson, who was recently elected to the board of directors of the National Association of Schools of Music, the discipline's accrediting organization.</p>
<p>"[The College of Music] really combines many disciplines, in effect, the equivalent of four or five or six independent departments in the typical university setting," Gibson explains.</p>
<p>From the Marching Chiefs to a variety of bands, choral ensembles and orchestras, the FSU College of Music is home to a wide range of musical specialties. The College's degree programs span the world of music-from composition to music theory to individual instruments. There are programs for opera and musical theater. Students also study the music of the world through the degree program in ethnomusicology. After renovation of the 90-year-old Ruby Diamond Auditorium, students will be able to perform in a state-of-the-art concert hall."</p>
<p>You have to turn your speakers on to hear this:</p>