My daughter is UC-material, but there are more majors in her field of choice at CSUs.

Parents Forum
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<p>My daughter is a h.s. junior and we're starting to get more serious with "the college quest". She's shown an interest in becoming an Occupational Therapist for the past year and a half and, so far, hasn't leaned toward anything else. That's fine! It's considered one of the Best Careers for 2009 in US News & World Report. One of those recession-free careers, they say. </p>

<p>She has the grades (she got her first B since 6th grade last semester) in AP US History. She's taken all upper level classes and is very self-directed, although not obsessed or highly competitive at all. Anyway, we've always just assumed that she would either go to one of the UCs here in California or a private school with a large endowment for financial aid purposes. </p>

<p>She's looked into a few schools that have a combined BS/MS in Occupational Therapy. One of those is USC. Also, Boston University, as well as other schools. Of course, the majority of the universities only have the grad program for Occupational Therapy. One of those is Washington University-St. Louis. </p>

<p>So here's where our dilemma lies. Sure, she could attend a UC or Ivy League (if she got IN, that is...and with a lot of grants), but we've noticed that none of them offer Health Science, Kinesiology/Exercise Science, Human Development type undergrad degrees. It's not a requirement for applying to an OT grad program, however she would prefer to major in something that she feels will be good preparation for her Masters program/career. A Pre-OT or Health Science BS is what is offered in the schools which have the BS/MS-OT option. So a student would get on the track toward OT from the beginning.</p>

<p>Okay, so I noticed that many of the CSUs here in California DO offer these types of majors. None of them have an OT grad program, so she would need to apply to another school later. But, just the fact that many of them offer the type of pre-professional or allied health majors that the UCs and Ivy leagues DON'T, makes me wonder if DD should consider this route. In fact, it was she who brought this up several months ago. Her argument is "Why go to a school just to major in something I don't feel would benefit me in my choice of career?" In other words, she feels she can get a great education and take classes that will help her later in her OT grad program....at a much lower cost. Then she could put that savings toward an excellent grad school. Makes sense, actually.</p>

<p>My husband's concern is that she might end up deciding that she doesn't want to go into Occupational Therapy after all. In that case, why not go to a UC/Ivy League/private school and get a well-rounded undergraduate education. Then worry about grad school. While he has a point, I really like the fact that she has a career in mind and wants to get busy right away working toward it. Instead of just majoring in a subject, she will have an actual "program track" that will teach her the necessary skills which will lead up to the state exam and licensure, just like I did with nursing. There's almost always a job waiting out there at the end. </p>

<p>Maybe my husband is thinking about himself. He got his undergrad degree from Stanford in Economics. Went on to UCLA and got his MBA in accounting. BUT, after a year of working in that field, he decided it wasn't for him. So he went to San Jose State and got his teaching credential in math. While it doesn't pay anywhere near what he could be making, he's been happy teaching for the past 26 years.</p>

<p>So, now I wish I could get over the fact (knowing my DD has worked all her young life and made top grades, etc.) that she might "end up" in a CSU school, when she could almost certainly get into a UC or private college. I wonder why it bothers me more than it does her? Cal Poly San Luis Obispo has a great kinesiology program with an emphasis toward OT, however it's usually impacted and not easy to get into. Also, we drove through the campus last month and she took one look at it and said "NO!" She's only basing it on how it LOOKS. :(</p>

<p>Bottom line: Is it out of the question for a kid who is UC-capable to decide on a CSU because it makes more sense for their career choice/major? And do any of you have some suggestions for good state colleges in California? One of our grown daughters has a BS in Biology from CSU Fresno. That wouldn't be our younger DD's choice, though.</p>

<p>How about Cal State Long Beach? Sonoma? San Diego State? Again, it's going to take me awhile to let go of the whole UC/private school-thing if she chooses to go the CSU-route. sniff...sniff.</p>

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<p>First of all… she should APPLY to CSU’s AND UC’s. (Unless you are going to qualify for a lot of need based aid - forget the elite privates). There’s no reason not to keep her options open – she may change her mind by next spring. </p>

<p>Secondly: my son is a graduate of a CSU. He didn’t start out that way – he was a National Merit finalist, straight A student, and went off for 2 years at an east coast LAC… where he floundered… Quit school & worked for 3 years, then finished up at a CSU because it was what he could afford (he was past his expiry date for parental support for college) – and it was a place he could get into. In hindsight it was the best thing he could possibly have done in his life – there were opportunities for him presented there that I think are unparalleled – definitely life changing and a good start for his career goals. </p>

<p>I think that the CSU’s offer a good education and a terrific bargain for students who are practical-minded or career oriented. It’s true that your daughter would never get the academic & intellectual challenge that your husband got as an undergrad at Stanford – but then it sounds like your husband took the long way round to figure out he was happiest with his teaching credential from … a CSU. So maybe your daughter is just on a more direct route to find a fulfilling career. </p>

<p>If your daughter changes career goals at a CSU but is still focused on a practical, career-oriented major – there is room to change and plenty to choose from. So there’s nothing wrong with the CSU route. As I said… it was one of the best choices my son ever made.</p>

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<p>“In fact, it was she who brought this up several months ago. Her argument is “Why go to a school just to major in something I don’t feel would benefit me in my choice of career?” In other words, she feels she can get a great education and take classes that will help her later in her OT grad program…at a much lower cost. Then she could put that savings toward an excellent grad school. Makes sense, actually.”</p>

<p>Listen to your kid. Let her follow her instincts on this one.</p>

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<p>I would encourage her to get the best education possible to be a full, rounded person. Especially if the cost difference is not great and she’s going to have to get a master’s degree anyway.</p>

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<p>Most kids change their mind about majors and careers a few times. If it were my kid and she had the goods for a top college I’d encourage her to attend one. Since she’s going to need the masters anyway, why not get a broader undergrad education which will serve her well in life?</p>

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<p>2Leashes, Your D sounds very similiar to my S1. He chose a state u (not flagship) because he felt it was the best place for him. He could have easily gone to schools higher up the name ladder but saw no reason to because he liked the one he chose. </p>

<p>I worried over it but let him decide. Now I’m so glad I did. He will graduate on Sat. with honors and debt free. He found a mentor at his sch. who knew exactly what S needed to do to get into a selective specialty (post grad. job) and guided S him through the whole process. S says he could not have done it without his help. There are great teachers/programs to be found in schools that are not household names. S2 goes to a lower tier state sch. than S1’s. His Eng. teaher for next sem. is a Columbia grad.</p>

<p>Your D sounds like a very level-headed young lady. Take her to visit the CSU’s she’s interested in. You might be surprised at what you find. Apply to a variety and let her chose.</p>

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<p>

I think there’s lot of merit in good broad education. I am not sure that hs junior is in a good position to choose a narrow carrier path, especially in a career they can know very little about.
Having a degree from one of the better UCs will not close any doors for your D’s OT career. But going a strictly pre-professional route will narrow her opportunities, and limit her ability to widen her horizons.</p>

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<p>Leashes, has she shadowed an actual OT yet? Has she volunteered in a health care setting to see a variety of practicioners and patients? Does she know mid-career OT’s who can talk to her about the challenges they face and the frustrations?</p>

<p>It’s great if your D has found herself so early in life. Statistically speaking, she would be quite unusual since most HS kids end up doing something completely different from what they thought they’d be doing. I find that this is especially common in the “helping professions”. HS kids think that social workers spend their days creating systemic change; that physicians spend all their time “healing”, etc. Talking to lots of folks who actually do this for a living is quite illuminating for a kid- Dr’s spend lots of time managing a practice, meeting with sales people who want them to purchase diagnostic equipment instead of leasing, doing paperwork and arguing with insurance companies. OT’s probably have their version of paperwork hell-- or if they work in a nursing home, dealing with medicare/medicaid reumbursements half the day.</p>

<p>So encourage her to learn as much as possible. I think a well rounded education as an undergrad would serve her well regardless of what she ends up doing professionally, but that’s my own bias- but surely having a degree in an academic discipline related to health care (bio, chemistry, life sciences, health policy/government, etc) won’t hurt her in the long run.</p>

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<p>Firstly, there’s nothing wrong with attending a CSU. If it’s determined that a CSU would be the best fit for her then she’d likely do fine there.</p>

<p>However, I agree with the others that there’s a fairly good chance she’ll change her mind regarding a career path and hence the major. Given that, it might make sense to head to a more selective and challenging school such as a UC. If she still wants OT I assume she can pursue it in grad school (disclaimer - I know nothing about the OT major). She might decide to do a general major like bio as a UG and end up deciding to be a doctor or RN or researcher, pursue something like Physiological Science as a UG, or something completely different like econ, engineering, chem, etc.</p>

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<p>Thank you for all your thoughtful replies. I’ll make comments after each one.</p>

<p>calmom: "I think that the CSU’s offer a good education and a terrific bargain for students who are practical-minded or career oriented. It’s true that your daughter would never get the academic & intellectual challenge that your husband got as an undergrad at Stanford – but then it sounds like your husband took the long way round to figure out he was happiest with his teaching credential from … a CSU. So maybe your daughter is just on a more direct route to find a fulfilling career. "</p>

<p>To calmom----> I often joke that my husband took the “expensive route” to his teaching credential. :slight_smile: I agree with what you said. I just need to wrap my brain around it.</p>

<hr>

<p>Endicott “I would encourage her to get the best education possible to be a full, rounded person. Especially if the cost difference is not great and she’s going to have to get a master’s degree anyway” </p>

<p>To Endicott-----> It sounds like you’re referring to a CSU here since you mentioned the lower cost and need to get a masters later.</p>

<hr>

<p>PackMom:</p>

<p>"2Leashes, Your D sounds very similar to my S1. He chose a state u (not flagship) because he felt it was the best place for him. He could have easily gone to schools higher up the name ladder but saw no reason to because he liked the one he chose. </p>

<p>I worried over it but let him decide. Now I’m so glad I did. He will graduate on Sat. with honors and debt free. He found a mentor at his sch. who knew exactly what S needed to do to get into a selective specialty (post grad. job) and guided S him through the whole process. S says he could not have done it without his help. There are great teachers/programs to be found in schools that are not household names. S2 goes to a lower tier state sch. than S1’s. His Eng. teaher for next sem. is a Columbia grad.</p>

<p>Your D sounds like a very level-headed young lady. Take her to visit the CSU’s she’s interested in. You might be surprised at what you find. Apply to a variety and let her
chose."</p>

<p>To PackMom-------> Again, it’s nice to see positive stories like this and it definitely gives food for thought. I actually know a lot of kids and adults who went to CSUs and are doing just fine. Some have lucrative careers, but many are just “plain happy” with what they’ve chosen whether they make a lot of money or not. I notice a lot of them went into teaching.</p>

<hr>

<p>Blossom:
"Leashes, has she shadowed an actual OT yet? Has she volunteered in a health care setting to see a variety of practicioners and patients? Does she know mid-career OT’s who can talk to her about the challenges they face and the frustrations?</p>

<p>It’s great if your D has found herself so early in life. Statistically speaking, she would be quite unusual since most HS kids end up doing something completely different from what they thought they’d be doing. I find that this is especially common in the “helping professions”. HS kids think that social workers spend their days creating systemic change; that physicians spend all their time “healing”, etc. Talking to lots of folks who actually do this for a living is quite illuminating for a kid- Dr’s spend lots of time managing a practice, meeting with sales people who want them to purchase diagnostic equipment instead of leasing, doing paperwork and arguing with insurance companies. OT’s probably have their version of paperwork hell-- or if they work in a nursing home, dealing with medicare/medicaid reumbursements half the day.</p>

<p>So encourage her to learn as much as possible. I think a well rounded education as an undergrad would serve her well regardless of what she ends up doing professionally, but that’s my own bias- but surely having a degree in an academic discipline related to health care (bio, chemistry, life sciences, health policy/government, etc) won’t hurt her in the long run." </p>

<p>To Blossom---------> You’ve made excellent points with everything you’ve said here. In fact, D has NOT shadowed or volunteered in a health care setting yet. The only “contact” she’s had with an actual OT (that I’m aware of) is an email interview she did when she was a sophomore as part of an assignment concerning careers. In the meantime she’s requested information from a few colleges about their programs. I’ve tried to encourage her to get a feel for the job. She’s also involved in Concert Choir/Jazz singers, so I was hoping she could incorporate that into a volunteer opportunity, ie; create a small singing group at a local nursing home/rehab. facility. She could also look into meeting with an OT or even a PT and observing what they do. But, alas, she’s not one to always listen to my ideas. Sigh. Much like her father, she doesn’t say a lot, either.:slight_smile: So, I’m not always sure what’s on her mind. Unlike me, she doesn’t wear her feelings out where everyone can see. </p>

<hr>

<p>nngmm: "I think there’s lot of merit in good broad education. I am not sure that hs junior is in a good position to choose a narrow carrier path, especially in a career they can know very little about.
Having a degree from one of the better UCs will not close any doors for your D’s OT career. But going a strictly pre-professional route will narrow her opportunities, and limit her ability to widen her horizons. " </p>

<p>To nngmm------------------> I know exactly what you’re saying. My husband will agree with you at this point. Either way, if she chooses the OT path, she’ll need to go to grad school. I agree that the pre-professional/health sciences route isn’t necessary for her to get her masters in OT if she truly wants that. At least she would have the broader education to apply toward her masters if she goes that route later. </p>

<p>You know, I often wonder WHAT she likes regarding school subjects. Some kids seem to show a special interest in one subject, ie; history. They often pursue that as a college major. When I’ve asked her what her favorite subjects are, she has no answer. In other words, I often get the feeling that she’s taking these classes because that’s what’s expected of her to get into a decent college, etc. etc. I’ve NEVER seen her show any exuberant enthusiasm about a particular subject or class. But then she doesn’t show her emotions much, anyway. Sigh.</p>

<p>So, you’re correct in that getting a more “well-rounded” undergrad education might be a better idea in the long run. HOWEVER, I see so many kids who major in things like history, philosophy or English, etc. but without a real focus on one track. They come out of college with all this “broad knowledge” but without any real marketable skills. So many go back and get their teaching credential because that seems to be all they can do with their undergraduate degree. Or like my older D who has a degree in Biology with all these dreams of working with marine animals…but works in a community foundation office and isn’t 100% thrilled with her career. When she was in school all she would talk about was getting her advanced degrees and maybe even teaching at the college level, mostly because she felt she could be a better professor than some she had. :wink: BUT, real life got in the way, ie; paying off student loans and needing to support herself. You know how that goes. Sigh.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if a kid knows pretty much from the beginning that he or she wants to “be a physical therapist or nurse or physician’s assistant”, let’s say…or in my D’s case, an occupational therapist…they can begin taking the necessary classes along with general ed. and grad program that will eventually lead them to a satisfying career right away (after passing the state boards.) There seems to be more job guarantees in the allied health field, so why not pursue it if it’s something they show a strong interest in. I’m not saying she should “settle” for this field because the job opportunities look better than the high tech field, for instance. Not at all. But, we’ve also had a rude awakening with the economy, so it doesn’t hurt to train for a career that will likely be around for awhile. :)</p>

<p>Of course, as mentioned, a person could also decide this isn’t what they wanted, after all. Just like my husband. But at the same time, I’m sure that having those Stanford and UCLA degrees certainly makes him feel proud regardless of his eventual decision to pursue a teaching credential later. And, he said one thing that I find interesting. When he was at San Jose state working on his teaching degree, he was absolutely amazed at how many of those students even were ACCEPTED into the program, much less going to be future TEACHERS. That’s kind of scary.</p>

<hr>

<p>Once again, thanks for all of your thoughts! Ultimately, it’s going to be my daughter who will have to figure it all out. But, listening to feedback and personal experiences here on CC helps me to put things into perspective as her parent.</p>

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<p>Another post that makes perfect sense. This would be how my husband would look at it. And, as I mentioned, I also would RATHER that she apply to schools that I feel she’s “been groomed for” all along (for lack of a better phrase). In other words, I still can’t let go of the fact that she’s been on this honors/AP track from almost the first day she set foot in kindergarten class. Her choice. So, am I being a snob for thinking that CSUs were never really a consideration? On the other hand, it’s just been recently after realizing she’s gravitating toward Occupational Therapy, that for PRACTICAL purposes, a CSU might actually have more to offer her with the type of majors they offer. Again, I’m still not ready to give up that UC/private school mindset just yet. But, then it’s not really about ME when it comes right down to it, is it?</p>

<p>I know this sounds petty…but if she does choose a CSU, I can actually see myself having to explain to people that she DID get into UCs and private universities, but she didn’t care for their majors and felt the particular CSU she chose would better serve her needs. Blah, blah, blah. In other words, it goes back to the being a snob. Arrrgggh! Or is that I want to live vicariously through my child? Probably. Let’s face it–those of us who have kids who have excelled all throughout their school career naturally have this dream that they’ll get into a decently ranked school and go on to live happily ever after. Like many, I have blinders on when it comes to other options out there. It’s time for me to TAKE THEM OFF! </p>

<hr>

<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em> dad posted:</p>

<p>Firstly, there’s nothing wrong with attending a CSU. If it’s determined that a CSU would be the best fit for her then she’d likely do fine there.</p>

<p>However, I agree with the others that there’s a fairly good chance she’ll change her mind regarding a career path and hence the major. Given that, it might make sense to head to a more selective and challenging school such as a UC. If she still wants OT I assume she can pursue it in grad school (disclaimer - I know nothing about the OT major). She might decide to do a general major like bio as a UG and end up deciding to be a doctor or RN or researcher, pursue something like Physiological Science as a UG, or something completely different like econ, engineering, chem, etc.</p>

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<p>How much does a CSU cost vs. a UCal?</p>

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<p>With all due respect, without test scores, this is just a wishful discussion. Excellent grades and low-600’s will not get your D into an Ivy or other top private school (without a big hook), and even makes Cal & UCLA a reach. </p>

<p>btw: Both San Diego State and Long Beach State are impacted, so they give preferences to the kids in their local communities. But with nearly all A’s, she should still get in. Dunno if it has her major, but Cal Poly SLO offers a full collegiate experience, probably has the fewest commuters of the larger Cal States.</p>

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<p>Just a heads up–the OT major or program can be SEVERELY impacted at a CSU. I would definitely check out the program on the web and ask a live human about the level of impacted-ness.</p>

<p>We had a thread about PTs not that long ago. You might see what people said on that thread.</p>

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<p>OP- encourage your D to observe a bunch of OT’s in a couple of different settings before she makes a college decision on the basis of an undergrad program which she may or may not like or be interested in. Lots of people like the idea of a stable, recession-proof profession. The reality of working one on one with really ill or disabled people, or with highly impaired stroke victims, or people in long term rehab after surviving a fire is something else entirely.</p>

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<p>Not only would I (as a PT) recommend shadowing an OT, I would recommend shadowing in several different settings. Most programs will not admit someone who hasn’t as they cannot be fully informed as to what the career path entails.</p>

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<p>The thing about a CSU campus is that it will offer majors broad enough so that even if she decides against the OT route she will be able to find something else she may want to pursue. I would encourage her to apply to both the CSU and UC systems and some privates along the way. In the meantime meeting w/ and observing OTs is a great idea. </p>

<p>Don’t let her paint herself into a corner at this point. What she thinks she wants now and what she will want a year from now can change and often will. My D wanted to be a veterinarian since she was 5 and never wavered until January of this year. She will be attending an LAC and is planning to majorin bio and creative writing and is no longer so sure about the vet thing.</p>

<p>Kids change their minds and options are cool!</p>

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<p>“Also, we drove through the [Cal Poly SLO] campus last month and she took one look at it and said “NO!” She’s only basing it on how it LOOKS.”</p>

<p>I just couldn’t let this one pass. My son absolutely fell in love with this place when we visited; he was literally in tears over the possibility of attending. I haven’t come across even one student who didn’t just adore Cal Poly. It’s in a small town with a rural feel and is within minutes of the beach. The central coast of CA is absolutely gorgeous. </p>

<p>89% of students return for their sophomore year. </p>

<p>To each his own, of course, but I did want to let others know that there is another view on this. </p>

<p>Two notes of caution:</p>

<p>1) Cal Poly is no lock to gain admission - it has a 34% admit rate.</p>

<p>2) Since it has an “upside down” approach where students dive right into their major courses in their freshmen year, students who want to change majors might find that it takes more than four years to complete their degrees. But it is a great school for students who really know what they want to do.</p>

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<p>^^ And there are a number of students who turn down a UC to attend CalPoly SLO.</p>

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<p>A very good family friend of ours in CA was sal of her class, got into UCB and UCD. Decided on the local CSU and is very happy. Got one of the big scholarships there, too. She was just not ready to move out into the world yet. She’s also learned that she can’t coast academically any more like she did in HS. </p>

<p>If she were mine, I think I would have really advocated for UCD, as this person is interested in the sciences and it was only an hour from home. </p>

<p>I have a friend who is an OT (both of my kids used to see her and we became friends over time) and has a pediatrics practice set up in her home. Her basement is her clinic and the place looks like a huge jungle gym. She also works in the school system PT. She worked at another small pediatric OT practice before heading out solo. There are many paths to take! </p>

<p>Agree that she should shadow and talk to people, throw some UCs on the list, and see what happens. Keep her options open, but realize she may indeed be one of those kids who knows what she wants and how she’s going to get it, and is being financially sensible about hte cost, given that she knows what she wants to do will require a grad degree. </p>

<p>The reality is that a WashU OT degree isn’t going to make her much more money than one from a state university. My SIL’s younger sister is graduating from WashU this month and fully expects to spend another three years in grad school for a MSW. I’ve had a hard time seeing the value-added in the younger sis’s case.</p>