My Dinner With An Admissions Officer

Parents Forum
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<p>A LARGE family wedding had me sitting next to a nice young man who I soon found out was an Admissions Officer at a private, elite, East Coast college (it's not appropriate to mention the school name, suffice it to say that it's one of the well-known, highly selective schools; he's been there perhaps 3-5 years after some experience at at least one other highly selective college). I actually was sensitive about "talking shop" with the guy, but he didn't know many people at the wedding and seemed interested to talk (given that my D is a high school senior with 8 applications in the works right now, I wasn't about to ask him to cool the college talk).</p>

<p>There were no earth shaking revelations, but I thought he made some interesting observations (but, as always, your mileage may vary):</p>

<p>*He claims many admissions officers are very aware of CC. He thinks that MANY people on CC ... particularly on the parents board (yay parents) ... truly "get it."</p>

<p>*He believes way too many people are overly preoccupied with GPA's and standardized test scores. He believes these are almost always bright line tests, rarely anything more. Exceed the threshhold and the REAL review begins.</p>

<p>*The so-called REAL review is focused on the full picture of the applicant that emerges from the essay, the EC's, and the recs. Applicants who come ALIVE in a multi-dimensional sense (that is, that the prospective college can truly figure out who this person is) have a distinct advantage.</p>

<p>*Most colleges today are concerned about putting together a well-rounded community and are not necessarily looking for well-rounded individual students. The elite colleges truly want "superstars" in many of the niche fields and EC's. Having said this, students who are well-rounded at a VERY HIGH LEVEL never go out of vogue.</p>

<p>*We spent a lot of time discussing the hot-button "is elite college admissions a lottery" issue. He believes that the answer is yes AND no (depends on the perspective). From the college's perspective, it is NEVER a lottery -- they are always "building a community" and each acceptance has a reason (albeit that a particular applicant might get unlucky because a prior applicant ... or a glut of similar current students ... might have dried up a particular niche). However, from the applicant's perspective, he felt strongly that there is a great deal of a lottery feel. It's no lottery to exceed the thresshold level GPA/Standardized test hurdle. But, from that point forward, he thinks it's very fair to say that a student now owns a lottery ticket. He is qualified. Just as no particular lottery number is inherently better, these qualified applicants are simply in the game and are largely selected based on factors completely out of the applicants control, complete with a healthy dollop of luck. Sure, SOME applicants are given multiple lottery tickets (legacies, athletes, URM's, people who can afford to pay at non need-blind schools, true superstars in a particular field), but for the overwhelming majority of applicants (in his opinion), this final level of review truly involves a LOT of pure luck. He claims that he bristles every time he hears people outside the process try to justify the decision of someone getting in versus a very similar applicant who didn't as meaning that the admitted applicant clearly had something "extra" and the denied applicant obviously had something "lacking." In his mind, the hard realities of numbers mean they often make decisions which would be equally as defensible if they had decided the exact opposite way.</p>

<p>*Oh, and one other nugget that makes this Admissions Officer bristle (and made the inner William Safire in me smile broadly) ... he claims that nobody in the industry ... never ... not once ... has referred to him or anyone else doing his job as an AdCOM. Admissions Officer, Admissions Counselor, Admissions Representative, even Admissions Committee MEMBER -- YES, to all of these. But, large fellow that he was, he resented being called the entire committee.</p>

<p>As I said, no huge revelations here, but hopefully some tidbits to consider.</p>

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<p>Thanks, DD. It's nice to hear a pro say that we CC parents "get it." I think this post should be highlighted and cross-posted on some other forums so the kids can see it too.</p>

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<p>Well, the inner Safire in me prefers to talk about adcoms, knowing that it usually does not mean the entire committee, rather than adoff! :)</p>

<p>Good post, though, and glad to know that we parents "get it."</p>

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<p>i wonder if he's reading this thread? lol</p>

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<p>Quote: "a particular applicant might get unlucky because a prior applicant ... or a glut of similar current students ... might have dried up a particular niche"</p>

<p>In my opinion, this is one of the two most important reasons to apply EA to schools that offer it. (The other being, of course, the expressed interest that the early application implies.) Combine these two factors, and then imagine two identical candidates, one EA and one RD. The advantage for the former must be huge.</p>

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<p>Great post!</p>

<br>


<br>

<p>Some of us may feel insecure with some aspects of our college applications (I do as well), but this is one area where I am the most proud. My ECs were a little different, yet showed total dedication and my short answers and essays (as my mom would put it) left little to the imagination as to what kind of person I am.</p>

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<p>this post is depressing for the asian community, as we all play the (violin, viola, cello, piano), all do math/science clubs/competitions, and largely fill the same "niche" that the op mentioned... :(</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Well, the inner Safire in me prefers to talk about adcoms, knowing that it usually does not mean the entire committee, rather than adoff! :)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hmm. While I typically resist abbreviations, I'm drawn to your "adoff." I may start using it. Adoffs! I like it. It has a kind of punchy, visceral feel to it, making it particularly well-suited to this exercise. ;)</p>

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<p>
[quote]
this post is depressing for the asian community, as we all play the (violin, viola, cello, piano), all do math/science clubs/competitions, and largely fill the same "niche" that the op mentioned...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't think you should be depressed at all. In my opinion, what the gentleman meant was that a sort of lottery mentality exists for applicants who "seem" to fill the same sort of niche. I don't at all think he meant that most people (or groups of people) are nothing but a niche. Instead of being depressed, I believe it demonstrates the value in making sure an application adequately (and preferably much more than adequately) explains why the given applicant is much, much more than a particular niche. If an applicant can't convince an admissions office otherwise, then how can an applicant reasonably expect to stand out in an applicant pool?</p>

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<p>Dudediligence,</p>

<p>First of all I hope you had a wonderful time at the wedding. To get some really good insight from someone in the "know" was indeed an added bonus, and worth the cost of the gift :) .</p>

<p>I will try to refrain from using Adcom, but what will we use? There are a variety of things we can toss around (finally we old birds can create a new language)</p>

<p>Adco
Adrep
Adoff
adcommem</p>

<p>the more creative ones (which I am not) will surely come up with something.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
i wonder if he's reading this thread? lol

[/quote]
</p>

<p>We joked about just that. I assured him that I'd keep his name and any easy to identify characteristics out of it. Fortunately, my D is not applying to his school ... otherwise I might have been a bit more circumspect about using the term "large fellow." :)</p>

<p>In all seriousness, however, there isn't one bit of original material in my post ... there isn't one thing that hasn't been discussed ... and discussed AT LENGTH ... many times on these boards. And other people have posted similar messages from Admissions Representatives before. I simply thought it never hurts to hear the perspective of the REAL insiders.</p>

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<p>Dudediligence,</p>

<p>It seems that the "adcommem" basically supported the assertions of the experienced parent forum members. Thanks for posting some more evidence of that. My eyes were truly opened when I first logged on here last spring.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I will try to refrain from using Adcom, but what will we use?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Good question Sybbie. I think we can poll the other 718 Sybbies and get 718 different preferences. Obviously, that particular "kernel" was just a fun part of my way-too-long post. Repeat any word way too many times and it sounds funny. And the tag "adcom" as applied to an individual just always sounded awkward to me.</p>

<p>The "adcom" ;) in question was entirely light-hearted about this. But obsessions with language aside, it interested me to know that the people in that particular trade don't use that particular term. It's no different when you talk with any expert with a specialized vocabulary. There are insiders' terms which reveal you to be "in the club," but there are also subtly "wrong" terms or phrases which out you immediately. In any event, that term just never makes it out of my mouth. It's not me. I can't use the term "adcom," any more than I can use phrases like "dear me," "oh my," or "Lordy Lordy."</p>

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<p>"Adcom?" How about Executioner? That's the way a lot of students (and parents) feel when it's all over.</p>

<p>Seriously, this was an informative post that had no surprises. It is very reassuring that there's a logic to the process that we can all understand.</p>

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<p>Well I don't like it when non-NJ people tell me, "oh you're from Jersey" so we can't be lazy about having to type more letters than just 5, have to give him his due.</p>

<p>So once you qualify it's the essay, EC's and rec's. Even though I hope adcoms (sorry) consider these in the context of the student's surroundings (financial, racial, personal hurdles that are overcome by some) it still seems the upper middle class and higher has the leg up in this competition. If you have the $$, you can afford to have your kid cultivate interesting and exotic activities that will become the standout EC's...you can get all the help in the world for the essay your child (hopefully) writes...the GC at your private or suburban hs knows just what to write for that awesome rec.</p>

<p>There must be a better way. Have to put your faith in the admissions people that they can see traits like genuine persistence, honesty, desire, compassion, etc that subtly come from the pages of an application.</p>

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<p>2331, regarding your last sentence, I do think that comes into play -- along with other factors; I think they really look at those traits, as I've posted before.</p>

<p>Certainly can't quibble with an "AdKommen" (he-he, my new abbrev.). However, my D meant a great # of admittees with multiple lottery tickets (winning numbers) in hand -- coming from rich, poor, & middle-class backgrounds. Magically, each of them fit into a missing niche at multiple Ivies, 4-6 schools at a time. That's why I think the niche thing is a tiny bit overplayed: it does not explain the # of cross-admits.</p>

<p>JMO</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Well I don't like it when non-NJ people tell me, "oh you're from Jersey" so we can't be lazy about having to type more letters than just 5, have to give him his due.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>i'm confused about that...</p>

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<p>The inner Safire in me always winced at adcom, just for the reason cited. I gave into it, thinking it was the accepted term, but am relieved to hear it's not.</p>

<p>2331clk: exactly! No one ever talks about someone being from "York".</p>

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<p>" If you have the $$, you can afford to have your kid cultivate interesting and exotic activities that will become the standout EC's."</p>

<p>Exotic activities such as trips abroad, expensive hobbies aren't the standout ECs.</p>

<p>The standout ECs are things that students pursue on their own -- with great creativity and assertiveness -- because they love those ECs.</p>

<p>A poor kid who starts an active, helpful college prep club in their school becuase the kid notices that most students are first generation college, and the schools GCs are uninformed and overburdened, will have an Ezc that stands out far more than, for instance, a well heeled student whose parents send them on an educational trip abroad.</p>

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<p>So Dude, is your daughter applying to his college? And thanks for shedding some light on that silly abbreviation, "AdCom." Never saw it before this forum and now I won't use it.</p>