My GPA isn't good, but I still think I should be in a top tier school...

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Am I delusional? My GPA is actually poor by all of the standards of basically every school I want to apply to. It is a cumulative UW: 3.12 and a W: 3.30.

It sucks this bad for a few reasons:

  1. I am terrible at maths and sciences that involve maths. I need way longer than my peers to understand certain concepts, and even when I think I understand, I blank out when test time comes around.

  2. I have taken primarily advanced and AP classes, and have been on and advanced track, since middle school.

  3. I took the advanced classes because I genuinely liked them and wanted to be in the environment they offered (challenging, intellectually stimulating).

I consider myself quite an intelligent person, and most people I meet would agree. I also consider myself an intellectual, even though at 17 I’m probably just milling about the same “intellectual” conclusions other quasi-intellectual 17 year olds are. I love a good challenge, and I believe I could be competitive in a top-tier school. I do not test well (though I do test fast).

My junior year GPA was an UW: 3.33 and a W: 3.83.

The significance of why I still want to go to a top tier university does not lie in that GPA. It lies in the fact that I have taken many AP classes in a suburban school with exactly the students one will find at an Ivy or a UC, and I have held my own in conversations with those students. In addition, my AP teachers have always seen me as a hard worker who, despite some complications, understands what is going on. And I actually do the reading…

To me, this indicates that I belong in a university known for rigorous academics. But will it seem that way to the colleges I am applying to? Not to mention that while taking those AP classes, I also worked every day after school, and then took class, all until 8:30 pm. I was a teacher’s assistant for my dance studio, and later in the year a teacher. I still hold the same position I did then, but now I teach way more than I assist. On top of that, I am still taking three AP classes in my senior year of high school. But because I did poorly in science classes, I have to take IPS to graduate (which I assume will reflect poorly on me).

But then, I got a 4 on the AP Language and Composition test.
When I took the PSAT (groan, I know, waste of time…) I did really, really well as far as the reading/writing section goes, but I totally bombed Math.

This is my dilemma. I am a passionate student, I care deeply about learning (and dancing) and I care deeply about being at a school that is challenging. I want to be amongst peers who have just as much interest and passion, if not can participate, as I do, and are on track to be successful. Success breeds success. But I am deficient in areas of study that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MAJORS I WANT TO PURSUE. Which are (in order) : Dance (Choreography focused), Creative Writing, and Psychology (which I guess I need stats for, but I don’t see why I need to have already taken a stats class in high school…I do, but I don’t see why they still can’t be like “Hey, these ones are smart, we’ll teach them stats their freshman year.”)

I know that the name of the school I go to, and the professors I have will make all the difference to how successful I can become, and how much money I can make. I also know there are alternative routes, but I like the easier way, the fast track to the network way. That apparently, is actually one of the most difficult ways as well because of the academic hell one should have put oneself through before applying.

On an aside, regarding maths, I only took up through Algebra 2 because I knew taking any math higher than that would bring my GPA down even further, and my stress level even higher. Which again, also apparently looks bad to colleges.

I want to apply to New York University, Eugene Lang, University of Southern California, UC Berkeley, UCLA, *Boston Conservatory, and *Juilliard.

U of Portland sent me an application fee waiver for some reason… so I’ll probably apply there as well. I’m also looking into Sarah Lawrence college, and a few colleges/universities in Norway (KHIO and U Stavanger).

What are my chances of getting into any of the schools I want to get into? Will my passion matter to the frigid boards of admissions? HELP!

Did I make any sense at all…

people = my AP teachers, and other people in general…
* obviously GPA and test scores don’t matter as much for these two schools as much as talent does. I’m applying for there dance programs.

2

Every applicant takes classes that they are weak at. For me, these would be French and Literature. However, these schools are still required to reject many applicants that have very high GPAs and very rigorous courseloads Therefore, you should try to have more compelling “hook” factor if you want to stand a chance in admission.

3

I understand your need/desire to be in a challenging academic environment, but you will have to reconcile your desires with the reality of your GPA/odds of gaining admittance to elite universities. But also: you have a very myopic view of what constitutes a good education, and where you can get a challenging and stimulating educational experience. Prestige doesn’t equate quality, or, rather: lack of relative prestige does not negate quality. Schools with high prestige are undoubtedly excellent schools, but you can get a challenging, rigorous and intellectual experience at a lot of schools. But what’s also funny to me: for your intended majors, you really don’t have to go to an elite school! In fact, some of the better creative writing courses in particular are not at the hyper elites. And for dance, you certainly don’t need to be at a hyper elite.

Refocus on the schools your GPA is a match for. If you’re in California, calculate your UC GPA first of all, but honestly I think they’ll all be a reach for you. UCB and UCLA are out–there are 4.0 students who can’t get into those. (what are your test scores, btw). In that case, you need to look at CSUs and less competitive privates. For creative writing, look at Chapman. Depending on your test scores, there are plenty of other good schools with creative writing programs where you’ll find good academics and an intellectually driven student body. Less competitive doesn’t mean “not good.” You may in fact benefit from a smaller school with a high faculty to student ratio, maybe an LAC, where you can find that community and flourish. There are some great people here on CC who can recommend less competitive but still fantastic LACs.

Plus, you can focus on the arts schools where you can use your dance talent to leverage possible admission. AFAIK, GPA won’t matter as much there, which would be a boon to you.

4

You will be wasting $140 dollars by applying to UCLA and Berkeley. Out-of-state applicants need a weighted GPA of at least 3.4 to be eligible for admission to ANY UC campus, and should be over 4.0 to have a shot at the top tier. That is an academic GPA, and so your Math and Science grades will matter. I presume you are not from CA, since you are so naive about UC admissions.

5

The idea you want to be around stimulating kids (and can only find them at certain schools) isn’t enough when the college has tens of thousands of applicants with all-around top stats. The 3.12 reflects your actual performance, not your ideas about your strengths and what you “want.”

6

Where are you located? Do you live in Norway? If you are based in the US, which state?

Is money a factor? Do you need financial or merit-based aid? How much can your parents afford?

What kind of dance? Most colleges and universities tend to focus on contemporary/modern; relatively fewer offer high-level ballet.

I suggest that you get a copy of Loren Pope’s Colleges that Change Lives. It focuses on smaller liberal arts colleges (LAC) that are rigorous but aim for the B-B+ student, many of which offer aid for students that are a bit better than that. Many of these are standardized test optional or follow holistic review so that low scores on ACT or SAT are weighed less heavily

College of Wooster in Ohio and Muhlenberg in PA might be options for you. Both had reasonable dance programs and Wooster offers dance scholarships also. Knox College in Galesburg, IL also offers dance.

Also, are dance conservatories an option for you? If your dance talent is exceptional, that might offset less than stellar academic performance.

I am sure that you can find an intellectually stimulating environment where you can thrive! However, I think that the schools that you have identified thus far are a bit ambitious given your stats.

7

You may be creative and bright, but you have a poor grasp of what the full range is and you are not on the top rungs.

You are not in the running for Berkeley, for example.

And, a dance student of Juilliard caliber would have already had a long list of additional credits to regale us with.

8

Send the application fee to your favorite charity is a better use of your money.

9

Are you planning to apply to the Tisch School at NYU for Dance, or to another undergraduate division? Have you scheduled auditions for Juilliard and Boston Conservatory? Dance BFA or conservatory programs base admissions primarily on auditions, and your GPA/SAT won’t be as big a concern. There are loads of good dance programs, if that’s what interests you, but you should figure out your audition requirements (especially from overseas) immediately. Your GPA is a little low for NYU and Sarah Lawrence, but you might have an outside chance. Are you capable of paying the full amount? They are two of the most expensive colleges in the US, and notoriously stingy with money.

Eugene Lang is similarly expensive, and they do not have an auditioned BFA program.

If you want some other great Dance programs, look into Cal Arts (ie. California Institute of the Arts, in Valencia, CA); UNCSA (University of North Carolina School of the Arts, in Greensboro, NC); Mason Gross School of the Arts at Rutgers University, in New Jersey; SUNY (ie. State University of New York) Purchase; University of the Arts, in Philadelphia; et al. There is a separate section of this website dedicated to Dance Majors. All these schools require auditions, and are highly selective, but do not emphasize grades and test scores as much as some of the colleges you mentioned.

Temple University in Philadelphia also has a great Dance department. Your GPA is probably adequate, but you need to contact them to set up an audition. They are a little less expensive than some other private colleges like USC and NYU.

Most programs will allow international students to audition via video, but you should find out about their requirements ASAP. The deadlines for auditioning performing arts students can be earlier than for general applications.

I highly recommend looking at the Performing Arts sections of College Confidential. There are some very experienced, knowledgeable contributors there.

10

You’ve already given an indication of how your application will be viewed by the colleges:

Exactly. A university is not your playground; try not to tantrum too loudly. The universities are required to educate you.

The colleges have a job to educate their students in all areas of study so that any graduates of a university will not have to be hired by a company that has to teach you math. If you don’t understand that, then you need consider either, going to a community college to get caught up, or not attending a university at all.

11

You’re relying on the fact that you took hard courses, but tons of people applying to these schools have taken probably the same courses you have and did better. All colleges want to see that you are proficient in all core subjects and math is definitely one of the most important along with english. If you only took math up to algebra 2 the track could not have been that advanced as most advanced tracks end with at least calc. It will also show that you have a very poor foundation in this subject which you will definitely be required to take. Not going to a top tier university does not mean you will be surrounded by people who don’t care about their studies. Also, you do not want to go to a top tier school you are not academically suited for because you will most likely not succeed.

12

Even literature students have to take Physics at USC. My math challenged kid did. She also excelled in anything but math, including science like AP Biology. If kids at top schools can pick the subject theyrfer to study in high school then everybody gets in, well almost.

13

Sounds like you think you belong in/or deserve to be admitted to a prestigious school because that is what you want. Yet you state that it takes you longer than peers to grasp concepts in science and math. Your writing suggests the need for some attention to English as well. No, your passion will not matter. I can’t really figure out what you have a passion for except wanting to get into a prestigious school. Students are not admitted on the basis of how much they really want to attend a prestigious school. They are selected on the basis of their prior achievements, their aptitude/likelihood of contributing to the school and to society in the future with consideration of whether their past levels of achievement suggest they have the skills needed to succeed at the school. Highly competitive schools look for students who have achieved at a high level and have sought out the most rigorous curriculum in the past. You seem to be mistaking really really wanting something for past achievements that suggest you would be a reasonable candidate for a competitive school. Seems like you want the “easy way” to success without needing to put in the effort or have the skills. Life just isn’t like that.

To give you an idea of how unrealistic your list is, Juilliard accepts 24 students out of all the dance students who apply from all over the world. I expect that by the time a prospective student who will be successful applies to Juilliard, they are already known to Juilliard due to the previous performances in national venues.Naturally I don’t know how accomplished you are in dance. But if the answer isn’t “very” and “well known locally” then your chances are probably nil. This is harsh but you should know these things now.

And statements like "Will my passion matter to the frigid boards of admissions? " suggest some entitlement issues.

You are correct about certain colleges providing a leg up in terms of opening doors. But the reason for that is those who hire recent graduates can be certain that graduates of those schools are outstanding students and will be excellent employees. It is possible for schools to maintain that reputation because they select students they believe will be such people when they graduate. Your post suggests you want the outcome but have not been willing to put in the effort to be an outstanding student, or perhaps you lack the academic strength to be an excellent student. But regardless, you want that name college. In terms of scholarship, you state you consider yourself an intellectual. That is rarely a judgement people typically make about themselves. Usually it is an appraisal by others.

Your choice of colleges seems fairly random rather than carefully thought out. Your post is filled with red flags that suggest that you would benefit from working closely with a guidance counselor to identify your major goals associated with attending college and to help you use those goals to guide your selection of colleges to apply to. There are plenty of great schools that provide outstanding educations to students who lack the record to get into the kind of school you express interest in. I bet you simply haven’t become acquainted with them. I don’t think your list is realistic. I hope you meet with your guidance counselor to develop a better one.

14

“maths” are a rather important subject for top tier universities, especially for an international student (based on the term “maths” which is not a US term) who might not be the best in reading and writing.

I can ask you though, if you are a hard worker and intelligent, what is your opinion on why you can’t get a higher GPA? That’s called “not reaching your potential”.

If you are truly interested in pursuing dance/choreography, I’m not sure if college let alone a “top-tier college” is the best bet for you. Do you have a mentor in that area? You need to start asking around what you should be doing to pursue your top career choice.

As others said, the point of going to university is to get a breadth of knowledge. If you want dance and “NO OTHER MAJORS”, then perhaps you need to look at a training or apprenticeship type program.

On paper, attending university might look like a necessity for you, but when others look at what you want to pursue, it seems nonsensical to put your energy into something that doesn’t relate that well to what you want - a narrow education that avoids your “tough subjects”.

15

“Am I delusional? My GPA is actually poor by all of the standards of basically every school I want to apply to. It is a cumulative UW: 3.12 and a W: 3.30.” And that says it all. Yes you are delusional. Your GPA is not poor by most school standards, just the ones you want to apply to. Oh well, that does suck but stop whining and move on. You don’t mention you SAT or ACT scores either, have you taken them?

What you don’t want is to somehow wind up in a college that requires classes that are too difficult for you to keep up with and you start falling behind and getting frustrated. Choreography does actually require math skills for placement and timing, etc. Accept your limitations at this point in your life and look at excellent schools that accept your level of achievement. Smaller LAC will look at you more holistically which might help, start there.

16

Have you been tested for Dyscalculia?

Second, there are excellent colleges for dance and a well-rounded education. Are you open to checking out more colleges than those you listed?

Third (or perhaps first), what’s your parents’ budget and EFC?

17

I’ll tell you a secret. If you’re truly intelligent, all subjects will come easily to you in high school. High school is just prep for the real stuff, the basics of how to learn and how to perform academically. To me, it seems like you’ve failed that test, and someone needs to pop that big ego of yours. Believe me, I’m in the dance world, and I know exactly where your superiority complex comes from as I’ve seen it in so many of my peers. It’s delusional, and you need to stop.

18

At the top schools, all of the kids have taken many APs and they have most likely kept up a 3.7+ GPA as well. At my high school, all of the kids who get into top tier schools took AP in all of the core subjects, regardless of whether it was their strong suit, and were in the top 10% of our class (over a 95 GPA). Like the poster above said, if you are truly intelligent, high school will not be difficult for you. And if you have a 3.12 GPA in high school, what do you think will happen if you do attend a top college? And you will most likely be forced to take classes that you don’t want to take.

19

It always mystifies me when kids who can’t even be near the top of their local HS think they belong at schools who take the top kids in the nation.

OP you can’t “talk” your way into a top school. You have to look at schools several tiers down from where you’re aiming. Good luck!

20

MODERATOR’S NOTE
The original poster seems to have been drive-by posting and has since disappeared. As a result, and given that there has already been some good advice given, it appears that there is nothing more to say. Closing.