<p>simpkin… your story makes me even more convinced that it all works out in the end and they end up where they are meant to be. HAppy for your D but can totally relate to how you must have felt last year at this time. </p>
<p>daredevil… I am very happy for your S!! Your story is the kind that keeps me up at night though… because of your belief that his EC’s and passion for them was what got him admitted… so then why did my S NOT get admitted. His EC’s are extremely deep and he has put 1000 of hrs into them. He didn’t have a ton of frivolous and superficial EC’s. If you read any of my posts you will see the dedication and extraordinary commitment that he had. If colleges are really looking for leaders and kids with passion that will carry over to their colleges then my S should of been a shoe in. I am not convinced that is it anymore… but I sure was prior to all of this.</p>
<p>TK… I had actually thought of this and had it mentioned to me awhile back. The problem with this is that my S would not be happy at a school that didn’t have the CC vibe. He didn’t want to compromise himself just to get into college… and he is actually a conservative hippy…LOL!! Also, he has done tons of theatre and some dance at his HS.
Probably got overlooked on his app though. It is strange to me that colleges wouldn’t want to admit kids that are the best fit for what they are promoting… why admit kids who aren’t going to be happy and leave. Isn’t their #1 goal to keep kids at their school and not transfer out?</p>
<p>sooziet… your story made me smile…thank you</p>
<p>Calmom… yes, his semster away did wreck havoc on his Junior year. He only could take 1 AP, so he is loaded up this year. He also couldn’t take a 4th year of FL because of it. But, most of the schools that he is applying to know the school he went to, it should definitely be a big plus, even with the messed up Junior year. This is a VERY well regarded school that matriculates most kids to Ivy’s.</p>
<p>Simpkin - Nerve wrecking. How does that happen? Could be repeated to my kid this year. I can’t say I am relievd that all the application are done. Real worry starts.</p>
<p>It did work out, she is absolutely thrilled with where she is and has no regrets. The only thing I would do differently is have her apply to a true safety with rolling admissions. Waiting for the decisions to come out in March would have been a lot less stressful if she had already had an acceptance in hand. When she got that WL decision from GWU, she practically had a nervous breakdown and was convinced she wasn’t going to get in anywhere.</p>
<p>Simpkin… kind of like my S right now with 4 deferrals in his hand… he is convinced he is getting in NOWHERE!!! At least he DID apply to a rolling admission school and is in…with full COA scholarship… but this is definitely NOT his first choice…</p>
<p>Yes, but you are looking at the boarding school semester in isolation. Try looking at it the other way. An admissions reader is going to be reading quickly through files, and drawing an impression from the first thing s/he reads. Chances are the first thing looked at is the high school transcript. What happened for your son the semester he was at his home campus? </p>
<p>That admissions reader might be looking at transcript and thinking the junior year is light. Only 1 AP? No foreign language? Coupled with a B+/A- level GPA, that’s enough reason to wait for the fall grades. </p>
<p>It doesn’t matter whether it is college admissions or anything else – for a competitive process you have to look at the decision through the decision maker’s eyes, bearing in mind that they have different priorities than you do, and that there are other applicants in the mix. My d. was involved in performing arts, so she knew from childhood what is involved in an audition. It was never about her – it was always about the roles being cast and the the other dancers. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that every spot the college offers in the EA round is one less spot they can offer RD, when they will have a much larger array of applicants to look at. So how does the college benefit from offering that spot? This is NOT a process of deciding whether a given applicant is “good enough” to attend the college – it’s a selection based on what the applicant offers above and beyond other applicants. So they are going to offer spots to recruited athletes and to students who meet whatever their current needs are. </p>
<p>So I guess that’s my question – what do you think that your son offers to Colorado College that made him stand out from the pack, and aren’t likely to get from other applicants? I think that tk21769’s observation is important: the one thing the college does not need is more students who fit their stereotype. </p>
<p>It’s not as if the college is going to be short of applicants in the spring or have a tough time filling its class.</p>
<p>PS, I do understand how nerve-wracking it can be, though in my own case I think in hindsight that I was far more stressed than my daughter. I saw a deferral and then an early waitlist and started to think that that the message was that my d. was not quite good enough to get in anywhere. My d. correctly saw the deferral as a non-rejection. </p>
<p>I’m a little surprised at the large number of EA applications referenced in this thread. When my d. was applying to colleges, it seemed that EA was not even an option at most of the schools she was looking at. I’m not sure if this is simply because of who is drawn to this CC thread or if there is a growing trend for more and more students to apply EA-- but if it is a trend, then you are also going to see more deferrals. </p>
<p>I think it would be very unfair to students who are meeting the posted RD deadlines if any school significantly restricted its ability to offer spots to applicants because of an overly generous EA process. Why confer an admission advantage on students who are submitting less information with their applications? Try to look at the process with the needs of the college and all its applicants in mind.</p>
<p>5 boys - I certainly can hear your pain and just so you know, he was my last of 3 boys, so we have had our share of bad times. Having just read the Amherst admissions process, which was new to me, I am further convinced of my belief, especially since I’ve been through this before. My son knew what he wanted to do from age 7. At age 10 he began his journey building his life. All these years later he was able to articulate it on paper, proved his path with his course load and grades along with his community involvement working with DARE. A 10 year commitment to his passion where he has experienced hard work, bottom of the barrel failure and reigniting the passion to move forward to an accomplishment. I remember over 7 years ago with my 1st son that colleges were looking for more diversification in their applicants. The one’s who had list upon list of accomplishments. Today it seems that less is more, meaning quality over quantity. Unfortunately, most young people don’t know and should not need to know what they want to do at age 10. The competition today is so great! It is astounding to me to read the qualifications of some of these student profiles - how could he compete? The Amherst example, while flawed, does provide great insight.</p>
<p>I believe simpkin is referring to the Mountain School - an incredibly selective program that no doubt is seen as a huge positive by adcoms. It’s very hard for me to believe that trading off a few APs because of a semester there would be looked at negatively.</p>
<p>She did get other admits, including Cornell. I should have said that. She really loved the LACs like Amherst, she really loved Yale. I loved Penn when we visited, she liked it, but then we saw Swarthmore the next day and she thought that was much more what she wanted. So Penn was pretty far down on her list, but she’s absolutely delighted to be there.</p>
<p>Re post #88 – I did NOT say that the semester at Mountain school (or wherever) was viewed negatively. I said that the transcripts didn’t have the positive attributes that each college wanted to see for EA admissions. Based on the information provided by the parent, I am guessing that the missing elements were a less-than-perfect GPA and possible as-yet-to-be-completed courses among an array that the ad coms like to see completed by the end of junior year. </p>
<p>As long as applicants or their parents view the admissions process as being centered around judging the merits of individual applicants, they will continue to be puzzled by results. If a particular college guarantees admission to all applicants who meet a minimum threshold of qualifications, then it would indeed be puzzling. But that’s not how the process works. </p>
<p>In the case of the kid whose EA application was deferred, the question has to be, what was so compelling about the applicant that would justify the ad com admitting him less information (lack of mid-year report) than other applicants. </p>
<p>When my d. was applying to colleges, we attended workshops run by a former college admissions officer to help understand the process. The workshops were kind of like the report about Amherst admissions, except that we were all given a set of applications to review, a very short time to review them, and instructed that we could only accept one of the four whose applications were presented. </p>
<p>One lesson learned in that process was that sometimes things that a parent or applicant might think is a huge strength – or an irrelevant factor – is viewed in a very different light by the ad coms. If you can’t take a step back and view the situation objectively, with the ability to recognize and assess weaknesses as well as strengths – you may be handicapped in the admission process, because you fail to address the weaknesses. An admission’s officer only needs 1 reason to pass on an applicant in a competitive setting. So you can have a very strong applicant turned down because of 1 troublesome thing in their application package… and in some cases that troublesome thing may be something easily explained, but the ad com just happened to draw the wrong conclusion. </p>
<p>If you understand the weaknesses, they you may be able to take action to address them. They may be “hidden” in the sense of something that is written in a LOR that the applicant doesn’t realize is there – but I don’t get the impression that this would be the case here.</p>
<p>I wish I could have been a fly on the wall at ds’ ed admissions conference! Who only knows what cinched it.</p>
<p>We had been debating for 3 years on whether or not to disclose some ld’s. We heard the pros and cons and ultimately left it up to ds. He wrote an amazing short essay about the biggest obstacle he overcame. And this is an engineering kid - he wrote that because of his dysgraphia it was very difficult and frustrating to learn how to play the guitar because he had difficult with fine motor skills. One day he was playing guitar hero with a friend and for fun they decided to change the guitar from right handed to left handed. He realized the answer was playing lefty. Then he mentioned the pieces he mastered and the speed of his chording. </p>
<p>It was better written than my description, and it made us chuckle a bit at the guitar hero reference, but also a little horrified about mentioning it. It was the only reference to an obvious ld based on his stats. However, I felt like if it was enough to scare off admissions people then he shouldn’t go there anyway. </p>
<p>So we’ll never know if it was a big deal, something they grappled with as a negative or not even considered at all.</p>
<p>Economic class is not an indicator in this case! Money may be able to allow many students the opportunity to travel abroad with exotic summer camps while in high school but if the student cannot convey personal growth and insight, then it has no value. We are middle class people and my 2S wrote an essay about his day work trip to The Farm@Long Island in Boston Harbor. Across from the bright lights and bustling sounds and activities of the city, this shelter presides. Not many people are even aware of it and its purpose. This life lesson working in the fields in 95 degree temps. alongside people who had experienced hardships most of us don’t even think about taught him more than maybe the affluent persons s/d could learn on their summer adventure. This was only 4 yrs. ago, his SAT scores were around 1250 and top 35% in class, yet he rec’d admission to 6/7 schools with merit aid from 12-15K.</p>
<p>Please tell me that the essay about the shelter farm was based upon more than one day spent at the shelter…please…perhaps an entire summer toiling in the fields?</p>
<p>Nope. A very long one day adventure. He did have other community service to offer, but he is not my high achiever. It was a fabulous essay. He did attend a private Catholic high school that does not have any recognition outside the area. Most of his schools had religious affiliation, so there is that hook I guess, but his final choice was Elon.</p>
<p>FWIW… it was my S who attended The Mountain School…not simpkin’s… and he wouldn’t have traded that experience for anything in the world… including acceptance into his #1 school. He does have 2 transcripts and his GPA from TMS was not averaged into his GPA from his home HS… but like I said, the schools that know of TMS… and I’m sure CC does, know what the academics are like there… they are actually doing graduate level work in some classes… and rigor is MUCH higher than AP’s, and my S did extraordinary work there.</p>
<p>I think calmom has some valid points and they are well taken by me, especially the point about what we view as a positive impact, may in fact not be. </p>
<p>I hate to admit it but I think it is FA at CC… I’m pretty sure if he was full pay he would be sitting with a fat envelope right now. CC has our profile and knows our need, and it’s not pretty. They are probably not wanting to give it all away in the ED round without seeing what the regualr pool looks like. Same with L&C… UVM does not have our profile, but i think with UVM they thought, hmm this kid has high stats, went to TMS and is NO way going here…as like I said, most TMS kids go on to Ivy’s</p>
<p>I would like to reiterate that I am in no way upset… but just curious…my older 3 boys just went to out local state school, so I have never been through this before… it would really be fascinating… if it weren’t so stressful…LOL!!!</p>
<p>I checked, and it appears that CC is NOT need-blind in its admission practices – so I would tend to agree with you. I think need may have been a factor in my d’s being waitlisted at 2 colleges that were somewhat less selective than others that admitted her, but there are other factors as well at play, so there would be no way for me to know. </p>
<p>I’m a little confused about whether your son was EA or ED at CC, as they offer both – but if you look at it from the standpoint of the college, it may not be good for either the college or the student for them to accept a high-need student via binding ED. It’s also not clear to me whether they guarantee to meet full need. From what I can find on their web site, it appears that they don’t – and I find it troubling that they have chosen to omit financial aid data from last year’s common data set. (From previous years, it looks like they claim to meet about 92% of need on average). </p>
<p>If your son did apply ED – you may find yourself very grateful in the spring that he was deferred. That is, it is possible that they will accept him in the spring, but that their aid package will be weak in comparison to other schools, and your son will opt to go elsewhere. </p>
<p>One more thing: if YOUR financials are uneven or unusual in any respect, AND the college is need-aware, they may really want to have the FAFSA & tax returns in hand before offering admission. This is especially true because of CC’s practice of offering 4-year aid packages with guaranteed annual grant levels – they may really want to see more documentation concerning income and assets first.</p>
<p>OK, time for some harsh reality here. TMS charges $22K+ for a single semester’s tuition. I assume that your son received financial aid, but in general the school is not serving underprivileged youth. The reason most TMS kids go on to Ivy’s is NOT because the colleges are in awe of the academics, but because a semester at TMS is a code that signals affluence. (This is not to put down the academics in any way – I’m sure it’s an excellent program – but that’s not the cachet). </p>
<p>There is no such thing in real life as a true "need blind’ school. If there was, then the Ivies would not be able to offer need-blind admissions and have stable financial aid budgets from one year to the next. So the college that are need-blind and promise to meet full need of all their students need a way to structure their admissions to guarantee that every year, roughly half of their incoming students will come from affluent families who can afford to pay full cost. </p>
<p>They do that by employing admission standards that tilt in favor of affluence. They get a big boost in that direction from the SAT, as SAT scores correlate directly to family income level. (Not on an individual basis, but on a group basis – which is all that the Ivy’s need for their financial aid budgets – they don’t care which kid gets the money, they just need to to ensure that they don’t accidentally admit too many needy students). A history of attendance at an elite private boarding school is another indicia of wealth – if they give all kids coming from a select array of pricey private schools or programs a leg up on admission, then a high percentage of those students will come with money. </p>
<p>If a school is need-aware in admissions, none of that matters. The difference between "need-blind’ and need-aware is whether the admissions people are directly looking at finances on an individual basis in making admissions decisions. </p>
<p>Your son will get accepted to many colleges regardless of need – but need-aware colleges are going to make a cost/benefit analysis of how much they are willing to pay for a given student to attend. The higher the level of need, the more impressive that student needs to be to gain admission with adequate funding.</p>
<p>Calmom… I 100% agree with you and it’s ok… I can take it… My S is on scholarship at his HS and had a full scholarship at TMS… and I am quite aware when I see the Ivy acceptances that they are taking full pay wealthy kids… my S is now in NYC with a few of his TMS friends and he is staying at a Park Ave. apartment… SOO… you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out… I’m sure it is the same when I look at NAviance at our HS… where I know that most of the kids are full pay. It is what it is… we are not suddenly going to come across a pile of $… unfortunately. It will be intersting to see how my S does at Bowdoin and Midd… who are need-blind… it might just get really interesting…</p>
<p>My S originally applied EA, but the week before ED decisions went out CC emailed my S And asked if he wanted to switch his EA to ED… he did, although I was against it… then they deferred him… WTHECK was that all about??? It certainly put a bad taste in my mouth.</p>
<p>P.S. to 5boys: Your son needs to have a financial safety. It sounds like he does have that with the OOS university admission, but you & he may not have truly considered whether the other colleges your son is admitted to will be affordable. </p>
<p>Look at the schools on his current list with an eye toward financials. If a school has a commitment to meet full need, then you will be fine with that school. That doesn’t mean that the school’s determination of “need” will match up with your reality, but it does mean that your son’s financial aid award, if admitted, will be as generous as that particular school will ever be.</p>
<p>If there are schools on his list that do NOT meet full need of all students, then you need to keep in mind that those schools leverage their aid and follow practices of giving some students preferential packaging, while coming up short for other students. That decision is NOT made simply on “merit” (grades/test scores) but also on other factors which influence the degree to which that school is willing to pay extra to entice the student to attend. It could be a diversity or demographic factor, or a skill, talent, or interest that is something that is in short supply at a particular college. National Merit status is highly valued by some schools (so they can brag about how many National Merit scholars enroll) – not important to others. </p>
<p>Your son may want to expand his list to include more schools likely to offer him merit aid, in order to improve the likelihood that he will get into an affordable school.</p>
<p>I don’t want to read too much into the deferrals – again, I think it’s mostly a desire to see midyear grades – but for any school that does not meet 100% need of all student, the deferral may be a bad sign in terms of financial aid. It doesn’t mean that the student won’t get aid, but it may mean that the aid you get won’t be at the level you need. (If they are willing to give a kid a fat scholarship, you’d think they would also be happy to admit him early on – if its iffy on admissions, it may be iffy on the money as well)</p>