<p>Wow, are these adults? And not even people who are worrying about their kids’ futures at the moment, but who one would think would be back to offer guidance, sympathy, maybe a generous word? Yikes. </p>
<p>5boys and others whose kids are worrying through a deferral-- here’s to great outcomes in the new year! I am sure that really good things will come --the waiting is hard and a piece of bad news early can make for a sense of pessimism that has no basis in reality. Happy New Year, to all!</p>
<p>I never intended to diss the TMS program or any other program. There is a context to my comments and the context seemed to be: 5boys S. applied to 4 or 5 colleges EA/ED. 5boys S. has terrific test scores, amazing EC’s, and went to a wonderful program - TMS – that should be like a special gold star on his application package, because all of the TMS kids end up at Ivy or Ivy-caliber colleges. Yet, inexplicably, 5boys S. was deferred from every single EA/ED college. </p>
<p>In that context, I pointed out that TMS is not a free ticket to admission. I suggested that perhaps the deferring schools wanted to see midyear grades because 5boys S. had a less-than-perfect GPA, or perhaps they were concerned about some course or other that he didn’t take when he was off doing his semester of organic farming. Then 5boys raised the point that her son was on scholarship at his private schools and needed a lot of financial aid. The colleges that deferred her son seem to be need-aware in their admission policies. At that point, I commented that without the affluence that is typical for TMS kids… the cachet is gone. He’s just one more applicant that is going to cost the school money over a period of 4 years, and the schools are not ready to commit to subsidizing this particular kid at this stage of the process. </p>
<p>I’m sure that TMS is a good program – I just don’t think its a ticket to college admission, no matter what their web site claims about their record of college placement.</p>
<p>I would point out that in terms of attracting discretionary aid dollars – merit money or need-based money at college that do not guarantee to meet need of all comers – it really, really helps to go against type. If Colorado College is a popular choice among TMS alum, then Colorado College is unlikely to want to use its limited financial aid dollars to pay for another TMS kid – from the point of view of a the college, financial aid is a way to “buy” a student, and they are going to want to spend those dollars on something they need, not something they already have.</p>
<p>As I have also noted, the equation is very different in those schools that claim to have need-blind admission. I think that the “need-blind” schools also are very cognizant of the need to earn revenue from tuition, but they achieve those goals through policies that tend to produce a certain statistical outcome, rather than individual case-by-case determinations.</p>
<p>hi,
i just wanted to add my own two cents, since i don’t think that the things some people have been saying are completely fair to 5boys. to be honest, her son has higher test scores than i do, by about 100 points. we have similar GPAs; i also attend a rigourous private school. i even did the same summer program as her son (SCA, right?) and yet i did not show nearly as much dedication to a particular field as her son apparently did. he has many more service hours than i do. and yet i was admitted EA with $$. im proud of my application and im glad tht i was accepted but i really don’t think that it’s possible to pinpoint a specific weakness in her son’s application. there isn’t really one, since i was accepted and we’re similar candidates (5boys, i apologize if i’m being presumptuous here). even at a “lower” level school like CC, and i dont think cc is a lower tier school since it’s one of my top choices, admissions are just not predicatable. there’s not necessarily any rhyme or reason to it. i think it’s ok to wonder why he was deferred</p>
<p>Welcome to the discussion, shootingsilver… but I think you’ve missed the point of much of what has been said. The speculation at this point is that the fact that 5boys S. is a high-need applicant was a significant factor at the need-aware schools which deferred him. </p>
<p>To the extent that need for financial aid may be a factor, you are not at all in the same boat – you posted in another thread that U. of Chicago has determined that your family does not have need, that your parents make roughly $120K & have a number of reportable property assets… so if anything, the fact that you got admitted to some of the same schools as 5boys S. with similar GPAs & somewhat lower test score and weaker EC’s tends to support that theory: he needs substantial need-based aid, you don’t, so the colleges are happy to have you, but want to take a wait-and-see approach with him. </p>
<p>I think when you say you were “admitted EA with $$” you are referring to merit aid – or else a very small amount of need-based aid – in either case, as far as college financing is concerned, that is something that they are very happy to extend. A college with a COA of $55K that gives out an award of $10K is looking at receiving $45K the following year from that student – and a college can give out 10 $10K merit awards to entice 10 strong students to attend, for the same cost as fully subsidizing a single needy student with a 0 or near-0 EFC. </p>
<p>So congratulations again on your successful applications… but again, at this point the discussion has drifted to the question of how much the applicant’s high need status might play a role in deferral from a need-aware school.</p>
<p>It’s New Year’s and I want to celebrate with my friends, bu I also just want to clarify something that bothered me: I do not have “weaker” ECs, just different ones. Mine were not focused in one area as 5boys son’s were. My parents will sacrifice a lot for my education and for the education and medical needs of my special needs brother, but they will not sacrifice our family’s quality of life for an expensive college, and nor will I let them. I’m sorry that you don’t think I could have gotten in on my own merit, and I am sorry that you think I got in because they think I can pay. If I did get in b/c of the money, then I would give my spot up to 5boys son in a heartbeat. I, however, feel as if there must be some other reedeming sections of my application, as I was also accepted EA to a need-blind school.</p>
<p>oh and you didn’t take into account the fact that I only posted about our financial status because it’s a problem. Although our need may not show on paper, it does exist. Colleges will not give us FA bc we do not appear to need it. Appearences can be deceiving. Honestly, right now, unless significantly more merit $ appears, I will likely attend a strong state school. Not to imply that there would be anything wrong with such an outcome - i would not have applied had I not liked the school - but being admitted to a school and then not being able to go bc of money really hurts.</p>
<p>I said that it is likely that 5boys son was deferred from a several need-aware colleges because hecan’t pay.</p>
<p>It’s got nothing to do with you. Obviously colleges have many qualified applicants --those which are need-blind will select some from their entire pool, those which are need-sensitive will put a somewhat higher barrier to admissions for high-need students. Among non-needy students, well-qualified applicants will be chosen; among high-need students, only the exceptionally well-qualified will get in. </p>
<p>Your showing up to this thread to make a big point of how you got accepted to the some of the same schools with the same GPA and a lower SAT score is merely an illustration that admissions decisions are simply “not predictable” seems like gloating to me. It’s not pretty. </p>
<p>And again, it’s irrelevant to the financial question because you do not come from a high need family. </p>
<p>Now if some kid with a similar background, high need, and weaker stats came along and announced that he had been admitted to CC or Whitman or Lewis & Clark or UVM and offered a financial package that included generous grants to meet full need … then that might be a piece of evidence that would negate the inference that need was a factor. </p>
<p>Being need-blind but not meeting need does nothing to help most needy students – the only students it helps are those whose actual need is less than what the need formula used by the school’s financial aid office is.</p>
<p>Any student who needs significant financial aid must make reach/match/safety assessments considering likelihood of sufficient financial aid and scholarships to make it affordable. For example, if a given school is expensive and does not meet (actual) need, but has a large merit scholarship that can make attending affordable, then the reach/match/safety assessment would have to be based on the likelihood of getting the large merit scholarship, not merely admission.</p>
<p>You are correct, but there are some colleges that are need-aware in admissions policies, but do promise to meet full need of those students it admits. It is reasonable to assume that in such colleges, the bar for admission for high-need students is probably higher – that is implicit in the concept of need-sensitivity. In such cases, need is a factor that is considered in admissions. Since a student’s best chance of getting a strong financial aid award may be at a full-need college, it’s probably worth applying – but the reach/match/safety analysis may be changed once you are factoring need into the equation.</p>
<p>Again, I’m referring to those schools that do NOT claim to be need-blind in admissions.</p>
<p>Calmom, it is you that is not pretty saying shootingsilver simply wanted to gloat. I took his/her post as NOTHING more than showing the randomness of admissions. Sheesh…</p>
<p>But if we are talking about the practices of need-aware colleges in evaluating needy students, it isn’t “random”… it’s a factor that is considered and is a potential barrier to admission.</p>
<p>Shootingsilver is a HS student. Until 4 years ago, I didn’t know what the difference between need blind and need aware was. That shootingsilver doesn’t know the difference doesn’t constitute gloating.</p>
<p>My post #165 was pretty explicit. I would have expected the response, if any, to my statement, “at this point the discussion has drifted to the question of how much the applicant’s high need status might play a role in deferral from a need-aware school” to be pertinent. It wasn’t.</p>
<p>shootingsilver, based on your posts here, I would predict a bright future for you, because of your mature and responsible attitude (moreso than some of the parents posting on this thread, sad to say). Don’t despair on the merit aid yet - my daughter, who doesn’t have world-beater stats, got very nice, unexpected merit awards from two schools so far. So there’s hope.</p>
<p>Shooting silver… I in no way thought you were gloating!!! I totally understand what you were trying to convey… and I really appreciate it… your maturity astounds me and I’m sure you have a very promising future!!</p>
<p>Calmom… You have told me in a 1000 different ways… we are poor so my S is going to have NO options… Got it… thanks.</p>
<p>Wow, 5boys, that seems like a misreading of Calmom’s point. She’s merely saying that need-aware colleges (in other words, almost all colleges) are need-aware. They prefer a full-pay student to a high-need student, all else being equal, because they need the money. </p>
<p>But all else isn’t equal. Your son has a strong application, and I expect he’ll get some fine acceptances at regular decision time. I’m not sure where you get the “NO options” idea.</p>
<p>I don’t think calmom is saying that your S is going to have no options because you are poor, simply that the institutional priorities of need aware colleges are somewhat different in the EA/D round than they are in the RD round. Your S was not a good match for what the colleges were looking for in the EA round, as the EA round is for colleges to take the students they must have, and for need aware colleges, one of the must haves is students who are full or near full pay.</p>
<p>In the RD round, need aware colleges have a clearer picture of how much money they have available for the students they would like to have simply because they are excellent students, regardless of their ability to pay. Consequently, your S, who is an excellent candidate but has need, has a better chance RD because the institutional priorities being used to determine admittance are more in his favor. That is not to say that having high need is not a factor for need aware colleges in RD, simply it is less of a factor and it is easier for your S to overcome the negative of having high need with his excellence elsewhere.</p>