My ranking is 10/392 (i moved 2 places down from 8) and my mom yelled (like literally) at me arguing that colleges won’t look at me if I fall outside the top ten. When I pointed out that not everyone takes classes as hard as I do, she stated that “colleges don’t know that and don’t care about that.” I also pointed out that I knew upperclassmen who got into prestigious top colleges w/o being in the top 10 and she said, “not to compare” and then went on to say that I have nothing to show for extracurricular wise (despite me only being a sophomore and winning awards individual and team, local, region and state last year; not bragging for the wrong reasons but like why is that not good enough?) and that (and i quote), “I SHOULD JUST TAKE EASIER CLASSES TO MAKE SURE I STAY IN THE TOP TEN.” i also pointed out that not all high schools rank, to which she didn’t respond directly. How in the world do i convince her that this is a narrow minded statement. i feel like i’m doing fine, but she thinks i’m stupid? Well first of all, my position is right, right?
tl;dr–my mom thinks colleges will primarily look at high school ranking and says that i should take easier classes so i can remain in the top ten. I personally think this is an extremely stupid mindset to be frank. are any of your parents like this? sorry for the lengthy post btw.
It depends upon your high school and the coleges you are targetting. Some of the top colleges do only tend to look at the top 3 students. Not percent but number. You can look at Naviance data for years, and without a strong hook, only the top 3 kids, or top two get into HPYMSC. I’ve seen the data myself. For schools known for their rigor, I’ve seen kids that are not way up there still get accepted, but many in such schools do have some outside hook such as legacy, connections, etc.
Are you saying that youre ranked by unweighted GPA? If so, colleges will know this. And besides, top 5 or10% is usually enough for even elite universities if you’re great in other areas. Good luck! Hopefully other posters will weigh in.
1 Any discussion of top ten will almost always be as a percentile, not an absolute number, i.e. top 10%.
2 College will look at the rigor of your schedule. Your GC report will most likely contain a school profile which will list the highest level classes per subject. Also, your GC will need to rate the rigor of your schedule.
As a mom, I am inclined to support my own kind. It sounds like your mom is very invested in your success and wants to help you succeed. Consider yourself lucky. There is a lot for parents to learn in our first time coaching a kid through the college application process. If you find yourself fighting with your mom, suggest that she could find loads of parents here who can offer advice, or perhaps you can set up a time for her to meet with your guidance counselor to discuss your schedule selections for next year. I found it very helpful to sit down with the guidance counselor as my kid was picking her junior schedule.
Highly selective colleges care a lot about the rigor of your schedule. Taking "easier classes" to improve your rank is not a great strategy.
Your absolute number rank (i.e top 10) is not as important as your percentile rank. If you went to a school with 1000 students, being #10 would be more impressive than being #5 in a class of 100. So if your mom wants to focus on rank, she should focus on %ile (you are currently in the top 3%) and not a number.
You are correct, many schools don't rank. As a result, many schools do not put much importance on class rank.
And you could be more open about some of her points too.
Some colleges care about class rank, for example automatic admission to state schools etc. You can investigate your state university and what scholarships or admission guarantees might come with certain class ranks.
If you are taking a lot of hard classes and getting poor grades (your rank does not indicate that is the case thus far) you may be shooting yourself in the foot. My kid has a friend who has signed up for a "very rigorous" (loads of APs) curriculum, and consistently gets B's and C's. The friend has a <3.0 unweighted GPA, and is unhappy that selective colleges aren't more impressed with the weighted (close to 4.0) GPA.
Your school does report rank. Colleges will see it and use it to compare you to your peers - so it is not meaningless.
Mom’s are never wrong! (kidding) My suggestion to you is to set up an appointment with your guidance counselor and have your Mom express her concerns to them. Let them respond so it is coming from them and not you. IMO your ranking is great, you are way inside the top ten percent and it is definitely important and meaningful to take the most rigorous courses that you can. Of course I don’t know what your college aspirations are but your class rank is as you say not considered by many colleges and especially so at the most selective colleges. Your GPA,(with rigor considered) Standardized test scores, EC’s, Letters of recommendation and Essays are cumulatively going to dictate what colleges you will be accepted at.
Unless you have an incredible hook, taking the most rigorous classes that are available to you is always what I have been led to believe is most important. Be respectful in your communication with your Mom, she is concerned for you, let her know you appreciate her concern and think it would be valuable to seek out the advice of your guidance counselor as it relates to this.
Find and print out the ‘school report’ that the GC provides to the college. She will see that rigor of schedule is considered. Sounds like a tiger mom to me… sorry she is giving you such a hard time. For some people nothing is good enough…
Rank is just one element in an application. I am inclined to believe that it doesn’t matter much past Valedictorian/Salutatorian. In a hypothetical situation if #9 had 1800 SAT/28 ACT, with unimpressive extracurricular activities; #10 has 2200/34 scores, and was Class President; #11 is a nationally-recruited athlete; and #19’s grandfather has a building named after him; how much do you suppose it matters to be within the top ten?
Your mom is wrong. And frankly, some of her comments are inappropriate. I understand that she is anxious about your future, but you are obviously a committed student, doing well, and don’t need the additional pressure (especially since she doesn’t know what she is talking about.) Continue to take the challenging coursework you have been talking. Your guidance counselor is required to note the academic rigor of your transcript and rank it against the coursework of the other students. But more importantly, you are getting a good education which is what high school is about. It sounds like you also have accomplished some impressive EC activity for which she should be proud - not ragging on you. If she is like this when you are a sophomore, I predict some very ugly dynamics by the end of junior year. You may not be able to stop her, but you don’t have to buy into what she says. (And by the way, is your father around and more supportive? If so, perhaps he can talk to her?)
Schools care about lots of things: Go to the Common Data set for any school you are considering, scroll down to Section C and you will see what factors are weighted most heavily for that school and where you stand. Assuming you are open to attending places other than HYPMS (and your mom isn’t going to view going anywhere else as a failure), you will see that you would be a welcome addition to many schools if your test scores are consistent with your grades. Good luck!
Your mom sounds pretty ignorant (and you can tell her that someone who went through the college process in the US and went to an elite college told her that).
However, what state are you in?
The rigor of your courses is the most important. Colleges definitely look at that. And you are rewarded for taking harder courses because they are usually weighted heavier. Taking all easy courses will prevent you from being in the top ten because all the smart kids will be taking honors and AP courses that are weighted more.
For the most selective schools, class rigor is very important. On the recommendation form your guidance counselor will need to check off how strong your rigor is compared to what’s available at your school.
Simply, your mom is wrong. Set up a joint meeting with your GC to discuss this. Rigor of course work is very important to show on your college application. I would not dumb down your course load IMO. This is what colleges like to see: are you challenging yourself within the context of your high school course offerings by taking advanced, AP classes etc.
From both my Ds experiences, there were a lot of students in their class grubbing for rank by taking study halls, and other schedule manipulations etc. Now the HS doesn’t rank at all.
Your mom is not doing you any favors. You need your mental luggage as empty as possible in order for you to effectively and efficiently deal with the outside world. Your mom is filling your luggage with so much mental garbage that the riggers of the outside world just might seem overwhelming.
I wish your mom was absolutely wrong but I have learned the hard way that she is just mostly wrong. Taking a rigorous work load and schedule is apparently highly considered by the top school, but not if it compromises your GPA significantly. You have to find the sweet spot of taking the most rigorous work load you can handle without compromising your unweighted GPA.
Go to the collegeview part of this website and look at factors considered for admission for some of the schools you are interested in. Your mom loves you a whole lot and wants you to be successful. Bless both your hearts! I think the idea of meeting with the GC is a wonderful one.
Your mom needs to go back to school and see if SHE can stay within the top 10…usually these crazy parents couldn’t do what they’re demanding that their kids do.