My plan for college (degree confusion and all.)

Student Lounge College Life
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<p>So, I've been thinking things over and I've been pretty lost up until now on the major I want to choose and go for. I'm approaching my second year in a month and up until now I've been doing Computer Science. </p>

<p>I've considered this from all angles, this whole "getting the degree you want" thing. I don't have any particular passion for any subjects and I'm great with computers, but I dislike coding and I don't want to spend the rest of my life behind a computer. </p>

<p>So I basically decided after my first year that I really don't want to do a computer science major. I also didn't want to get anything related to "liberal arts" or philosophy, or any degree that I consider "useless" in today's world. A business degree isn't really optimal either, it's too overused in my opinion and you don't differentiate yourself with a degree like that. Premed, lawyer - these things aren't for me, and they're way too competitive to even jump into to make a worthy salary with all the work and money put IMO. It's for some people, just not me. </p>

<p>So this is my "plan":
I want to go for a Information Management Technology Bachelor's degree, possibly higher. Not original, I know. Don't be so quick to flame, although I do want honest opinions. </p>

<p>Why go for a degree like that, since it falls more under business and is what I earlier classified as "useless"?</p>

<p>This is my reasoning: in pursuit of a Computer Science degree, you would have to put in an inordinate amount of hours as you get through the third year and afterward. With something like an Information Management degree, I get some basic knowledge, BUT I have the time out of my day to NETWORK and get some EXPERIENCE on the field (provided I can find an internship or something like that)</p>

<p>Something time consuming like computer science, or biomedical engineering, or anything related to computers since those are my options, usually require many, many hours of work and I wouldn't have the chance to actually get my foot in the door later by earning experience during my sophomore, junior and senior year. </p>

<p>By the time I finish getting my degree, I'd have filled some requirements and I hopefully wouldn't have too much trouble finding a job assuming the experience I've had. Meanwhile, Computer Science majors would be stuck without experience, but just a degree in their hands. Yes, they would have valuable information, but it'd be tougher for them to get started and they would likely start at the same position I would. Except I'd be years ahead of them. </p>

<p>That's it. What do you guys think? Terrible idea, good idea? I'm trying my best to come up with what interests me. I don't want to be burned down in flames later because I pursued a degree I shouldn't have. </p>

<p>So I'm interested in hearing what you guys have to say. Maybe some of you had some experience in the IT field and could lead me in the right direction.</p>

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<p>An “Information Management Technology” degree will not let you get ahead of CS majors, no. You will not have much more time to network and get experience than CS majors; even if you did, you would not be starting out at the same level.</p>

<p>There is a reason why it’s difficult to find information about what IT majors do, and it’s not that they all have wonderful careers they’re trying to keep secret.</p>

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<p>I suppose I could understand where you’re coming from. </p>

<p>Any personal stance on whether or not a business degree (well, business administrator to be specific) is the same situation as IT?</p>

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<p>

This is so wrong on so many levels.</p>

<p>1) You will likely not be applying for the same job as CS majors.
2) A CS major will, on average, make far more $$ in entry level than IMT. (Now, money isn’t everything, but I’m pointing this out because you seem to think the two degrees are quite similar).
3) Not all CS majors work as code monkeys.
4) A CS major has plenty of opportunities to network & get experience. That’s what co-ops/summer internships are for.</p>

<p>If you’re great with computers but not really a fan of coding, have you looked into computer engineering? Most schools treat CoE as the hardware side of CS, which you might enjoy.</p>

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<p>I suppose I was under the impression that the two degrees had some correlation. Of course I know that as a CS major you would shoot for the coding job more than the IT would. </p>

<p>I’m not trying to say CS majors will have a hard time getting a job. I suppose I worded that wrong. I was just trying to say that I feel, for some reason, fresh after college it still wouldn’t be that easy a thing to do to look for a job.</p>

<p>I’ve looked into computer engineering and I can’t say it totally interests me either, it also comes with a hefty amount of math classes required to take it. Which I’m terrible at. </p>

<p>I’ve got a CCNA cert if that’s relevant to any of this. I seem to be good with networking. I just feel as if no matter where I want to turn to in the field of computers, a deep amount of knowledge with coding is required in order to have a chance to survive or get a secure job.</p>

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<p>A business degree can be better than an IT degree. But a business degree doesn’t qualify you for any specific job really, so networking becomes necessary; you can’t do anything with the degree by just applying to jobs.</p>

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<p>Information management and technology is more about managing computers and their software. Computer science and engineering is more about designing computer and their software.</p>

<p>Computer science and engineering will be more technical, while information management and technology will be more business. However, it could very well be helpful to take the computer science courses in operating systems, networks, databases, and/or security even if you major in information management and technology, as they will be a stronger foundation of knowledge to help you with new technologies and unusual problems.</p>

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<p>@ amarkov: yeah, I expect there to be networking with any degree. If I can ask, what degree did you personally end up getting. </p>

<p>@ ucbalumnus: From what I understand a CS major can do whatever a IT major can do. Not the same vice versa.</p>

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<p>I was a high school dropout and have around fifteen years of experience in the IT field. Mostly support and administration but with some programming. Now I’m back in school. I’m only a community college freshman still, hoping to transfer to CS at a university in a couple of years.</p>

<p>I think if I got a degree in IMT, the only level that would allow me to rise to that I can’t now, is managing those who do what I already do or similar. I am not really interested in management, and want to increase my technical knowledge instead. I did think about doing an IT degree, I mean it would be easy since I already know the technical material for the most part, but in the end I don’t think it would help much with my goals.</p>

<p>I don’t want to keep crawling under desks until I die, so it’s non-traditional student life for me. I hope that you find my experience helpful in some way.</p>

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<p>These are such “college culture” responses</p>

<p>In the real workplace, for example some typical medium-sized software firm, there will be a mixture of CS, CIS, MIS, IT, EE people all doing roughly the same job.</p>

<p>None of these degrees will teach you every single programming language or web/networking technology. Not even the holy grail “King of Technology” degrees; computer engineering & software engineering.</p>

<p>Most job openings ask for a “technical degree” or “CS or similar degree”. If you have an MIS degree, experience, and ace a pre-employment PHP test or whatever then you’re getting the job over a CS graduate who has never seen the language before and promises to learn it by saying he knows how to make robots dance with LISP.</p>

<p>To your true horror… You may even end up working for less money than a coworker with no degree at all. Although those are becoming rarer and rarer due to people “learning to program online” and applying for jobs way out of their league.</p>

<p>The tech industry is not like law or accounting or pharmacy. It’s actually closer to something like graphic design. Your degree counts, but so do your portfolio, proven skills, and apparent talent.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>but if you don’t like programming/code monkeying, why bother with the CS degree?
The prestige? Then major in aerospace engineering or finance at a top tier school.</p>

<p>The average employer doesn’t see the same computer engineering > software engineering > computer science > CIS > MIS > IT hierarchy as college students seem to. They often throw them all into the same pile.</p>

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<p>What discoinferno said is basically what I’ve been trying to say, but I’ve been somewhat failing at conveying. </p>

<p>I don’t think the degree matters so much as the experience that you put yourself through. And you gain experience by being on the field. When I think of computer science majors, I think of nonstop hours of coding for homework assignments and never enough time to actually do anything <em>but</em> code. And what’s the point, if I don’t want to code, but manage people? When I think of MIS, I think of classes with generalities similar to business degrees, but the because of the light-weight content, I’ll have more time to hone my skills at what I <em>want</em> to do. </p>

<p>Whether that’s managing a team or learning the type of tech knowledge to manage a server, people or related.</p>

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<p>Contrary to what discoinferno said, people don’t do the CS major to be code monkeys. They do it to get exactly the kind of software management jobs you seem to want. And the CS major is also not nearly as time-consuming as you imagine it to be. So while you might beat out the lazy CS majors by doing less schoolwork and getting more experience, you’re not going to beat out the CS majors who do both.</p>

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<p>Since I’m utterly torn between the two responses that I hear from people on this subject, I think it would be helpful to ask:</p>

<p>amarkov, what degree did you end up getting and how did it turn out? Any specific reason you stand behind the notion that IT degree are pretty much… trash? </p>

<p>You really don’t think an MIS/IT major can get the same job as a CS major?</p>

<p>I would ask discoinferno the same, if he ends up returning to this thread.</p>

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<p>CS, and although it’s turned out fine, I’ll be honest and say it has nothing to do with this. </p>

<p>An IT degree isn’t complete trash, and I don’t think that it’s categorically impossible for an IT major to get the same job as a CS major. But the stuff that you learn in a CS curriculum is much more than just “how to be a code monkey”; in any halfway decent program, it’s assumed you can code monkey by sophomore year, and you spend at least 2 years learning high level stuff. The fact that you’re doing an IT major specifically because it’s easier makes me think you don’t realize this. If you don’t have the technical ability, who will care how much free time your IT major gave you to network?</p>

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<p>As a 25 year veteran of the IT industry, here is what I think about this. I graduated with an undergrad degree in business (marketing) and a handful of programming classes, and got a job as a programmer. I only programmed for about 3 years. I got an MBA in Management Information Systems, and have had a very successful career in consulting, IT management, and project/program management. IMHO, the business skills I gained through my business degrees have been invaluable. Every company craves people who can bridge the technical and business gap. Far too many technical people can’t translate the technology into business terms, and can’t communicate with their business co-workers. I think there is plenty of room in the industry for people like you. The large consulting firms (eg, Accenture, Deloitte, etc.) will definitely hire a business major with some programming classes thrown in if your grades are very good. And once you have a few years of experience with them, you have a lot of other job options.</p>

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<p>ITM is quite different from CS, however intparent is correct, there is a growing need of people who can bridge the tech-business gap so getting a degree in IT Management will also open up a lot of other job options. If I’m not mistaken, most school offer IT management under their business school/department so you’ll most likely be studying about how to manage technical resources with a few relevant electives from the CS department. For the most part, the degree sounds technical only in the sense that you’ll need to understand the technology and tools that are used, but not how to engineer them. While there’s some overlap, your job prospects will be different than if you studied CS. Now because these two fields are so different, it’s unfair to say that an IT Manager position is lower than a developer’s position or vice versa. Because ITM isn’t technical, it’s unlikely that you’ll get a development position unless you also study up on the side. On the other hand, it’s also unlikely that a CS grad will get a position as an IT Manager without also developing the necessary skills as well. So in the end, the question is whether you want to side towards development or business.</p>

<p>Just to be clear, neither CS nor ITM can provide you with programming competency (or confidence when writing code in some particular language). That you can only get through experience, and as CS tends to sway towards the theoretical side, coding is usually only seen as a mean to an end. On the other hand, there’s a reason that employers look for CS majors when hiring for dev positions. I was also a self-taught programmer of 3 years before entering college. To give you an idea, as a freshman, I was on the teams that won both the Yahoo and the Facebook hackathon in which you need to produce some “potentially marketable” product within 24 hours. With the minimum amount of experience under your belt, you can pretty much write anything you want. But if at the time, you asked me to rewrite my code so that I can actually put it on a server and have it not crash after 1000 users log on simultaneously, I would’ve been at a complete loss. Real world companies want their developers to work on marketable products, not just “potentially marketable” ones that can’t scale realistically. To that end, you’ll still need at least some of the theoretical stuff taught in CS (and which, unless you like reading academic papers, isn’t nearly as accessible to everybody as you would like to think) if you want to make it as a developer.</p>

<p>The point I’m trying to make is that CS isn’t ITM and ITM isn’t CS. You can definitely do coding work as either a dev or an IT manager just like you can manage software projects as both an IT manager or a dev. However, beyond that and the superficiality of their titles, the two are completely different so you need to decide which one appeals to you more.</p>

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<p>“I would ask discoinferno the same, if he ends up returning to this thread.”</p>

<p>I’m still in university, but before I enrolled I worked as a developer straight out of high school. Since I got my job with no degree, it’s safe to say any degree would have done. Don’t be surprised if for any technical job, the interview isn’t just “so what’s your degree and what clubs were you in?”. It’s possible they’ll have you literally draw up a program while they watch and hire the person who does it the best. My degree is a dual concentration in finance and information systems, and I picked up an accounting associates on the way incase something possesses me to go into pure business or become a CPA or something.</p>

<p>Check this out:</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.careers.calpoly.edu/search.php[/url]”>https://www.careers.calpoly.edu/search.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>try
2011-2012
undergaduates</p>

<p>then look at information systems (formerly management information systems) and computer science degrees</p>

<p>The median salary of fresh CS grads was $75,000
The median salary of fresh IS grads was $72,500</p>

<p>Both are predictably higher than the 30-40k salaries of himanities and sciences majors and surprisingly, most of the engineering majors too (mechanical engineering grads: $61,074).</p>

<p>Not that all schools will have the same results, but for $2,500 I’d say do what you enjoy more. I guarantee that analyst making 80 grand straight out of school isn’t crawling around under tables and untangling wires with a promotion ceiling or clinging to their job by getting network certs from devry.</p>

<p>I have total respect for computer science and literally came within a day of majoring in it before changing my classes. I’m interested in ecommerce and planning/funding/coding/designing web businesses and when I found out there was a degree where I could learn about…</p>

<p>…Finance (fell in love with it)
Accounting (boring but everyone should know it)
Marketing (love it)
Management (hate it haha)
PLUS take whatever programming classes I want (so far C, C++, Java, Javascript/AJAX/jQuery, a handful of algorithms & data structures classes)…</p>

<p>…I didn’t really have to consider it much longer.</p>

<p>If some company like CISCO or KPMG does offer me a job I’ll probably turn it down because I never intended to work as a tech manager, but for someone who DOES, it seems like a real no brainer decision.</p>

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<p>Also failboat is dead on about no degree teaching you confident programming. </p>

<p>Imagine if you had never spoken English before in your life then took 2 years of English classes and someone tells you to write a best selling fantasy novel. Would it really matter whether you majored in “theoretical English grammar” or “practical business English”? Either way you’d be screwed. It take practice which takes being genuinely interested.</p>

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<p>I think failboat raised a good point, and his answer makes the most sense IMO, compared to everything I’ve heard/read so far. I really do think that CS majors are more specialized for becoming a developer, and that’s not what I want to be. I put being a business man in front of being a dev in my personal preference. </p>

<p>Since I don’t plan to do <em>any</em> coding myself, I don’t think a CS major would fit the best. Even if it did fit slightly better, I don’t think going through a CS curriculum is worth it in my case, since the required courses involve plenty of math, which I’m just plain not good at.</p>

<p>I think that leaves me with two options: business, or MIS. Something tells me to head for the IT field if I decide to do business. I don’t know why, I just feel that’s the smart way to go. I think my reasoning for that is I believe that an MIS degree is fact a “jack of all trades” degree, <em>BUT</em> it’s also tailored towards the ever-growing market of technology. Something a business degree doesn’t do well IMO.</p>

<p>Before I make the jump though I want to hear from you guys: </p>

<p>What did you guys end up doing/are doing? As in, what are your current positions? </p>

<p>I was looking into some job descriptions and I don’t want to be something like a System admin, Data admin, network engineer or anything that has an unpredictable schedule (your cell phone going off at 3:00AM because something’s wrong) when you go deep into the field, even if it gives me a high pay.</p>