my sister is fixated on a school she probably won't get into.

Parents Forum
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<p>hi,</p>

<p>it's been a while since i posted here, but my younger sister will be a high school senior this year, so i'm back. i'm trying not to get too invested in her application process as i don't want to contribute to the pressure, but i'm worried that she might be aiming too high.</p>

<p>the school she wants to attend above any other is columbia, mostly, it seems, because it's in new york city (where she lives now), because the campus is pretty, and because they have good programs in the humanities and social sciences. i'm not actually convinced that it's the right fit for her, because she's very timid and not socially assertive, but i've tried to bite my tongue for the most part. her other favorites are penn and brown, and she likes williams but doesn't talk about it much. her "safety" is macalester, but she hasn't researched it at all and is mostly applying because i got in there. she refuses to apply to nyu.</p>

<p>she's attended three different high schools (moved to another city after freshman year, hated the school she ended up at, and went somewhere else for junior and senior year) & has little consistency in her extracurriculars. she's been on varsity diving, tennis, and cross-country teams for a year each, but has chosen not to be on an athletic team her senior year, except maybe tennis in the spring. instead, she'll be editor of the literary magazine and, i believe, section editor of the newspaper. she's sang in school choirs all four years, and she's done a bit of modeling. she paints and does photography, but more for recreation than with any real seriousness. last summer she interned at the office of a relative who is a pediatrician, and this summer she was an intern in a fashion designer's office. </p>

<p>her gpa is somewhere in the a- range. sat scores so far are 740 writing, 720 reading, and 580 math (she made an error filling in the bubbles and didn't have time to correct it all; i'd expect somewhere in the mid-600s when she retakes). subject tests are 800 on french and low 600s on math ii and physics. ap scores are 5 on english, 5 on french, 4 on european history, and 4 on physics.</p>

<p>i truly don't want to come across as negative. i love my sister, and she's a fantastic, intelligent, creative, and compassionate person that any school would be lucky to have. i'm just not sure that a white girl from new york city with her profile (good but not extraordinary numbers and activities, better at art and language than at math) has much of a chance of being accepted to the schools she wants to go to, columbia in particular. she barely seems interested in anyplace else. </p>

<p>complicating the situation is the fact that i'm at dartmouth, which was one of my long-shot schools (i was rejected by princeton and chicago, waitlisted at williams, amherst, middlebury, swarthmore). i feel terrible for setting expectations so high, and i don't know what to say without sounding like a hypocrite who doesn't have faith in her abilities.</p>

<p>i'm just scared she'll be heartbroken. does anybody have any advice?</p>

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<p>Can you suggest that she apply to Barnard? It’s a great college and more nurturing than Columbia or NYU. She could take classes at Columbia.</p>

<p>It’s okay for her to be in love with a school so long as she applies to other schools where has a greater chance of being admitted and which still would be a great fit.</p>

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<p>Your sister probably has a 10% chance of getting into Columbia - just like everyone else who applies to Columbia. That doesn’t mean she won’t get in - she may get selected. You never know. She sounds like a great student. But having one’s heart set on any school with a 10 - 15% admit rate is setting yourself up for heartbreak. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t tell your sister that she’s not good enough or special enough for Columbia - I’d just remind her that they reject 90% (or whatever the percentage is) of the kids who apply, so EVERYONE who applies there needs to have some really solid backup plans.</p>

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<p>Barnard is a great suggestion.</p>

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<p>At one of the college nights we attended when D was a sophomore in HS we were told that if a child has a dream school, he should apply to it because you never know. I would encourage your sister to do her best, work hard this year and apply to her dream school as well as some matches and safeties.</p>

<p>One of my best friends in HS never attended her dream school because she was afraid to apply.</p>

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<p>i have suggested barnard several times, but for whatever reason she hasn’t seemed enthusiastic about it. two of her three high schools have been single-sex, so that can’t be the reason. then again, she doesn’t seem enthusiastic about any schools except columbia (and sometimes penn and brown), so… </p>

<p>i’m not saying she shouldn’t apply, only that whenever i talk to her about college it’s all-columbia-all-the-time, and that concerns me somewhat.</p>

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<p>Columbia, Penn, Brown and Williams all have low admittance rates…in other words the vast majority of those who apply do not get accepted. For that reason alone, I would urge your sister to look at other schools that have similar characteristics but are not quite as difficult in terms of acceptance. She should apply if that is what she wants to do, but look at other schools too.</p>

<p>I’m not sure why you would think she should apply to NYU? </p>

<p>What about schools like Haverford, Villanova, Connecticut College? All are lovely campuses with more favorable acceptance rates.</p>

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<p>What schools are similar to Columbia, yet have higher acceptance rates? I guess student body-wise? </p>

<p>I guess I mean places with a pretty strong individualistic bent, mature, go-getters, not very big on “rah-rah” school spirit but just enjoying where they’re at?</p>

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<p>Quite seriously, I’d ask the moderator to delete your post. </p>

<p>You’ve given way too much info about your sister. I’m sure than anyone who knows her in real life will be readily able to identify her. Posting her scores, etc., is, to me, incredibly offensive–and I told you something similar when you pulled a similar stunt a few years ago.</p>

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<p>it certainly was not intended as a “stunt.” i apologize. will ask to delete.</p>

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<p>Like most everyone elsd, I think you should encourage her apply wherever she most wants to go. But also, have one or two safeties at which she would be happy. Macalester sounds like a good bet. Maybe she can come up with another one… just one more. That would be very good.</p>

<p>It’s nice you’re concerned about how this will all go for her. I understand your worry. Admissions to selective schools sometimes seems so arbitrary, even among top students.</p>

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<p>I don’t think there’s anything unacceptable or too revealing about what you posted.</p>

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<p>You haven’t given too much information, IMO. There are regularly chance threads with much more detail.</p>

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<p>^^ I guess jonri objects to OP posting sister’s stats. But then many parents post their children’s stats or in some other way disclose too much information.</p>

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<p>Barnard was a great suggestion. I don’t think she is a particularly strong contender at any of the Ivies you mentioned, and Barnard is the “back door” to both Columbia and the Ivy League. She would have a much better shot at admission there.</p>

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<p>I know someone who graduated from Barnard in 2008. The degree is from Columbia University. And she is now poised to go to an Ivy League for her PhD in Econ. She took many many courses at Columbia College. So I agree with Marite and others about the Barnard suggestion.</p>

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<p>Barnard is an OK suggestion, but I suspect it would be a significant reach as well.</p>

<p>Time to trot out the list of match/safeties for kids who want to be in a city and wish they could go to Columbia. Macalaster isn’t a terrible idea at all. Boston University (sort of the Boston version of NYU). She should think about NYU, of course. Emory might be interesting. WashUSTL (like Barnard, still a reach). The Washington colleges – Georgetown, GWU, American. Johns Hopkins could be an interesting choice (strong in humanities, but fewer applicants interested in those areas). Trinity (CT). Sarah Lawrence? McGill, Toronto. Pitt.</p>

<p>But there is another thought, too. The OP knows from experience what it is like to have one’s heart broken by a college admissions department, and also how irrelevant that seems a few years later. Perhaps the sister is also wired the same way. She may need to learn from experience rather than advice.</p>

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<p>First of all, I don’t find the information revealed to be excessive, nor do I find anything in it to be offensive or embarrassing.</p>

<p>To the point of the thread, I suggest making a list of her school choices and next to each name put the most recent available admit rates. Tell her you are concerned that she’s relying on too many high reach schools. Next, give her a list of some of the schools mentioned here and make sure to include the admit rates - some of these schools are only marginally easier to get into than the ones already on her list. </p>

<p>Finally, realize that this is her decision. She may get into all the schools on her list. She may get into Columbia and soar. It’s great to be concerned about her, but it’s her life.</p>

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<p>Another urban possibility is Carnegie Mellon.</p>

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<p>I like the idea of reminding her that even the best students have only a 10% chance at Columbia. Also remind her that you were rejected from a number of great schools and got into some too. I’m an older sister and I know the younger ones get fixated on whatever the older ones do, so if you speak honestly of your own successes and disappointments you’ll likely help her brace for hers. Then help her think out what she loves about Columbia and what other schools might offer similar things (like Barnard-- the contained campus in NYC). She clearly is a great student, and I’ll bet if she feels you’re really on her side she’ll be thrilled to start considering other schools.</p>