My son doesn't want to go where he got merit awards

<p>Well, okay, jym626, I get the limits of the analogy. My point is that buying something you don’t want (or, if you’re buying something for someone else, that the giftee doesn’t fully value) may not be a sound use of your money. Sure, the OP’s son may have superficial objections to Oberlin. But he may really not like it, and it may require a lot of energy to overcome his objections. This seems like a very imaginable scenario for any small liberal arts college with a distinctive culture. My kid is an atheist, for example. Could she find her way, say, at a school where there is a preponderance of nice, intelligent, interesting churchgoing types? Sure. But it would be an effort for her to adjust and she’d have plenty of other things to adjust to. If I had a choice, I’d send her somewhere that seems more comfortable to her (knowing full well we could still be making a mistake!).</p>

<p>By the way, I’d feel differently about this if the Ps and their son had had the money talk beforehand. The way I’m reading this, and admittedly I’m reading between the lines, the young man in question had no reason to think the money was an issue at all. I’d have had a frank conversation about money beforehand so it wouldn’t come down to this. (“Honey, you’ve applied to a lot of good schools. I want you to know that we will pay up to X for these schools per year. Regardless, if one school comes in substantially cheaper than the others, we are going to expect you to go there, so apply wisely.” Or something like that.)</p>

<p>Believe me, I wish I had a “do over” button with all of this (of course I have that same wish for so many parts of my life!). I would have done things so much differently. Live and learn - the hard way, I guess. We’ll know better the second time around.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I, personally, would have a problem being dishonest about my educational plans with my major professor. I couldn’t look him straight in the eyes and tell him “Yeah, I’m going for a Ph.D” when all I really want is an MS.</p>

<p>Sorry, esmerelda28, I realize I sounded rather judgmental. I really wish you and your son well as you sort this out. All the schools on your son’s list are great schools where lots of kids are thriving and happy.</p>

<p>I have not read all the threads, but I think I have a different opinion than most. Since when is going to college a birth right? If the child is paying for it - they can choose wherever they want to go. If the parents are paying for it - they get to be part of the decision. Period. The parents do not owe their child a college education. If they can help pay for it, or choose to pay for all of it - great for the kid - but that doesn’t mean the kid makes the sole decision. Kids are not entitled to a full ride to college from their parents. It’s a gift, a perk, not a birth right. </p>

<p>We told our son how much we had for school. It would pay for in-state. If he wanted to go out of state - he needed to earn merit scholarships to pay for the rest. We would not qualify for financial aid, but that doesn’t mean we can spend $40K a year on out-of-state schools.</p>

<p>He applied to schools where he could qualify for merit - most he had not visited - he went to the one where he got the best offer. Loves it. It’s not destiny. There isn’t one perfect match or school. This was a young man understanding his options and doing what he could to help control the outcome.</p>

<p>aabsweet-
I am still struggling with the analogy. The OP’s son SELECTED the schools to which he chose to apply. No one, as far as I know, made him apply against his will. So now he prefers the truffles to the regular garden mushrooms, but the truffles, while perhaps tastier, are too expensive. He doesnt dislike the garden mushrooms, he just prefers the truffles. Its not like he is an atheist and his parents made him apply to Notre Dame.</p>

<p>He selected the schools to which he applied and then, after visiting Oberlin, thought the school was not mainstream enough for him. A hasty assessment? Perhaps. Good idea to go back and got another view? Yes, for sure. Possibility his gut reaction is valid? IMO, yes.</p>

<p>The way I read this thread, and I can totally relate, is that OP didn’t have the “here’s what we can afford” speech because it wasn’t really relevant, as they expected to be full pay, and was happily surprised by some nice scholarships. So whoa-- to the OP these schools are definitely worth a second look, even if they had slid further down the son’s priority list in the interim between application and admission time. And also in the meantime, OP’s son fell in love with a school that is not offering a dime.</p>

<p>To me- a few options. One that I’d put at the top of the list is to ask for a FA (merit) reconsideration from Kenyon in light of the monies offered from pretty comparable schools. At this point, even if they ponied up half of what Oberlin has, that might feel just wonderful to the OP and her son, and everybody is happy. </p>

<p>Second is to genuinely say “we promised to pay for undergrad, but thats all”. If OPs son loves Kenyon and its a great fit (I am all about fit) then he/she is lucky to have this luxury to offer his/her son. If I had it to do over again, I’d have had older s apply EA instead of ED, as I think he would have gotten merit money. But its water under the bridge, his undergrad experience was wonderful and we wouldnt trade it for anything. And who knows, I rationalize the hypothesized money we he might have gotten as money we might have lost in teh stock market. We much prefer to invest it in his education and happiness.</p>

<p>So when all is said and done, if the OP can afford to let his/her son make the choice of schools, I’d let him. Its fine to vent,whine, second guess etc here, OP. Thats what we are here for!! </p>

<p>Oh, and as an aside, younger s went for the $$$$$$ as he had planned to go to med school. He changed his mind and is about to graduate and has a great job lined up. And he will have the $$ he saved in his “pocket” as it were, invested for his future. Both boys are happy with the choices they made. And we are happy to have launched 2 happy kids. Win-win.</p>

<p>Jym: sensible post, lucky kids, lucky parents. A smart, capable family. Yay!</p>

<p>Thank you, mythie. That is much appreciated.</p>

<h2>Oh dear, I wrote another long post. I’m not trying to bully a child into preferring Oberlin v. Kenyon here. Rather, I’m trying to explore what might have caused him to conclude “not mainstream enough” to see if that was a shallow or continuing problem for that child. FWIW…</h2>

<p>I’m actually surprised that a possible English/writing major, who applied to that list, prizes “mainstream” so much as a value. It just doesn’t fit together for me. So, I think the conversation I’d be having would be to find out exactly, specifically what was meant by “not mainstream enough” at his post-application tour to Oberlin. If you were there, you might already know; if he went without you, try if he’ll say what is causing him to label the college that way. And why “not mainstream enough” should be allowed to stand as reason not to attend. (maybe yes, maybe no…but I feel as though you don’t fully understand what’s making your child back off because of this memory of his visit.) </p>

<p>If, for example, the Oberlin campus visit was the first time ever my child had ever met a transgendered person up close, and had never thought much about the issue…it shocked him and he hasn’t been able to talk it over yet with anyone at home… well, that’s really worth talking over, especially if it’s causing him to turn down a good merit package to attend.</p>

<p>If he’s multiplying that kind of shock/surprise over many times in his mind, it might just be too much to imagine feeling okay. He’s young. But “students come to college to grow and change” (quoting my Obie-grad daughter). In a social setting over time, one does become accustomed to ideas, sights and sounds that at first were shocking. Said more simply above, “students adjust.” </p>

<p>If it’s too much of a stretch to even imagine being cool about sharing a 15-person English seminar with one transgendered person in the room, even after a chance to think about this for awhile and discuss with you…if it just has him doing emotional somersaults, then I kind of agree: Oberlin is “not mainstream enough” for your child. </p>

<p>I’d go into it a bit with the student, too. I’d ask: can you imagine or have confidence to imagine this about yourself: is it possible that by sophomore year (not freshman, not senior), you might grow into being personally comfortable with people who are very different? </p>

<p>Tolerance is, I think, a prerequisite for Oberlin. It’s not a prerequisite to be very different onesself. It’s not required to be already comfortable with surprising differences by age 17/18. I’m saying instead: do you feel like you’d grow into being comfortable bumping into someone who presents very differently? If so, you’ll adjust. Or, do you prefer to line up every choice (major, location, friendship circles) so your life barrels down the mainstream, with some blinders put on voluntarily to keep discomfort far from your door? A lot of people live that way, but it’s impossible to live with blinders on at Oberlin for 4 years. </p>

<p>There’s another way in which Oberlin might not feel “mainstream enough” for him. The airtime given to hearing out all the alternative positions, activities might be a cumulative problem in which he feels as though he’d always be on the outside. On that, too, I’d say this (because a goodly percentage of my immediate family are Oberlin alums): the Oberlin ethic is that nobody is an outsider. If anything, the big discovery that takes as long as freshman orientation is this: anyone who was a slight outlier in h.s. no longer has to live with that duality for the next 4 years at Oberlin. All the h.s. outsiders are now catapulted into being part of the “in group” as there is no longer an “in vs. out” group mentality. As for those who always enjoyed social acceptance and praise…they’re still on the inside, but with much more company.</p>

<p>If, after a second visit, he just feels that the amount of airtime devoted there to alternative themes, from transgender to vegan etc. is irritating, the flip side is that the school nurtures the kind of thinking that leads to genuine innovation in every academic and government area (Oberlin '82 alum is now head of Centers for Disease Control, in my generation someone figured out how to make wheelchairs for third-world countries, Julie Taymor of Lion King fame put together puppetry in Bali with her Oberlin religion major to come up with a new art form…etc etc etc). I’m wondering how an English major/writer could NOT be turned on by a college that turns out people like that, time and again. </p>

<p>BUt I’d explore the “mainstream” issue in depth to find out what all that means to him, and see if it can be re-examined more productively. And certainly have him read all the Student Voices, as published on the Oberlin website, if he hasn’t yet done so. That’s a real cross-section.</p>

<p>It would be a very bad idea to expect a child to go to a merit school if he’d be unhappy there or even if he could just “tolerate it” if other options are affordable.</p>

<p>But…if going to full price school ranks as a 10 for the child, and going where the merit scholarship is offered ranks as a 9 (still super good), then there’s the obvious argument that “a little bit more happiness” isn’t worth $80k…no way! Probably not even if the other school ranked as an 8.</p>

<p>At some point, “better” has a price that is either worth it or not.</p>

<p>Say I was deciding on buying House A or House B. </p>

<p>House A has nearly everything I like.</p>

<p>House B has everything thing I like (ok maybe not EVERYTHING, but a few more things than house A). </p>

<p>Now, I would pay somewhat more for House B because I’m going to live in that house a long time. BUT…I wouldn’t pay a ridiculously higher price for House B.</p>

<p>I would look at the difference and how it would affect me in the long run. Would the savings by buying House A allow me options that House B would not? Would I be able to go on nice vacations (study abroad) if I buy House A? Would I be able to afford the right furnishings if I buy House A? …As opposed to having to stick with my old stuff that won’t look goodl in pricey House B? </p>

<p>If buying pricey House B won’t negatively affect other aspects of my life (I can still furnish it and go on vacations), then fine. </p>

<p>There are other costs surrounding the college experience than just COA.</p>

<p>Thanks paying3tuitions. I do appreciate you points. My son is kind of on the nerdy side. While he is liberal, open minded (hey, we live in San Francisco near his 2 gay uncles), I just think he felt he had very little in common with some of the people he met. Tolerance is not the issue in any way. He did an entire weekend there, so it wasn’t just first impressions. He just came home and reported he didn’t think it was the right place for him. </p>

<p>Ironically, my husband started out at Oberlin for 2 years and then transferred - but not because he didn’t like the college. He was in the 5 year music program and found a teacher elsewhere that was, in the long run, better for his music career goals. My husband was so hoping S would fall in love with Oberlin and decide he wanted to go there. I work with many Obies. I have a deep respect for Oberlin.</p>

<p>Does your son have any specific interests–pokemon, robotics, bee-keeping, etc? You could contact the people at Oberlin and try to connect him with other students who share those interests…</p>

<p>mom2college-
The analogy only works if your mother is buying your house. It wont directly affect your ability to furnish it, etc. And yes there may be expenses for grad school, or professional school if the s goes that route, but who kows, maybe younger child will take a big scholarship and thre will be funds available for med school.</p>

<p>And maybe one house has a deal breaker issue. You dont like the neighborhood or the school, or there is s smelly sewage plant next door. Lots more issues than just the cost and the perks.</p>

<p>I can’t pretend to understand the teenaged boy mind. My S lived Williams but not Amherst. They’re very similar schools. I don’t think he would have sacrificed $80k, but only because we don’t have it. He would have wanted to. Ask your S, "is the difference worth 80k and abide by the decision.</p>

<p>What is you H’s instrument?</p>

<p>BTW Williams has the Clark, a world class museum that led him to his career, one he probably wouldn’t have found at Amherst. How did he know this?</p>

<p>Oh and Kenyon might have a transgender person, too. One of my D’s friends is transitioning, and she went to Georgetown.</p>

<p>You can bet all of these schools have G/L/B/T students etc. They just feel more comfortable being open about who they are in certain places. Each student needs to find a comfort level (if his/her family can afford it). Being clear that UG at Kenyon would mean no grad school money seems to make sense. Oberlin would be my choice, but who made me the queen of the world? Hint: no one.</p>

<p>I agree with bethievt. Except Kenyon would be my choice. I mean, my choice, if anyone were offering to send me back to school to get the LAC education I dreamed about 35 years ago. For the OP and his or her son, I wish them well as they work their way toward a choice that makes sense for their family.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Decades ago, my father was so hoping that I would attend his alma mater. I refused to even apply. Such is the teenaged mind.</p>