<p>And sometimes the teenaged mind is right. My son, I believe, chose a better fit than I would have chosen for him and also saved $80,000.</p>
<p>bethie: I think they often know something we don’t. But congrats on such a savvy kid.</p>
<p>Both mine chose right for themselves too. I just don’t quite know how.</p>
<p>I haven’t read the whole thread but as I understand it that the OP has a college fund for son. The family was willing and could afford both Kenyon and Oberlin. But suddenly Oberlin offers a discount so now it is not OK for son to go to Kenyon.
Most of the posters are now pushing son to go to Oberlin because it is cheaper, all else being equal even though son likes Kenyon better.</p>
<p>If the OP has let son to believe it’s feasible financially for both Kenyon and Oberlin during the application process, then I think it’s your son’s choice to decide otherwise it’s abusing the trust you had with your son.</p>
<p>Last fall, we discussed what we could afford to pay for college with our son, before he decided where to apply. We gave him a $ figure, and made it clear that anything over that amount would be paid by him, whether by working, taking out loans that HE would pay back, etc. We ended up very fortunate with financial aid from the costlier schools, and he has chosen a school that will not require any loans, thanks to the merit awards. But it was nice to have all this settled before those applications were sent. OP, since you allowed him to apply to Kenyon without any qualifiers (“you can only go there if you get a scholarship”), I think it is only fair now to let him go where he wants. BUT, I’d make it very clear to him before he chooses that if he picks Kenyon, you will not be able to pay the tab for grad school should he decide to go that route.</p>
<p>If there is no real valid reason to go to the school with no merit aid, then I would tell him he has to work to earn the money to make up the difference. Have him make a presentation comparing and contrasting the schools and convince you that the school that has no merit aid is the better choice despite the cost.</p>
<p>Great post Paying3tuitions. College choices are very personal, and in many respects not at all rational. It’s likely that a lot of kids who nix school A would actually be very happy there, but, since they wind up happy at school B, the fact that they don’t think they’d like school A never gets tested.</p>
<p>But I’m with you. If it were me, and it meant I could save some big dollars over four years, I’d want to know from my kid exactly what didn’t feel “mainstream” about Oberlin.</p>
<p>I agree with cbreeze. The parents set up expectations and made promises, and now are looking to violate them. If finances make it necessary, so be it, and the family will have to adjust; but if not, it’s kind of crummy to make a kid go to a school he does not want to take advantage of a deal.</p>
<p>Kenyon and Oberlin are rival schools. Fax Oberlin award to Kenyon with letter that Kenyon is really his favorite and could they sweeten the pot just a bit to make it a no brainer. If both are affordable based on your planned for college savings and that was understood going in I wouldn’t penalize son for Oberlin merit award. In terms of working to make up the difference . . . he already worked to earn the merit award, why should it end up being a penalty rather than a nice feather in his cap and a potential windfall? If he really loves Kenyon show the extra love and see what they do.</p>
<p>With regard to grad school: Students in Ph.D. programs at research universities generally receive full tuition support + a stipend (that will cover student-apartment rent, food, inexpensive entertainment, and a used vehicle). So if the OP’s son is thinking “grad school,” there is not really a need to save up for it. On the other hand, med school and law school type grad schools are largely full-pay, and very expensive. Employers will sometimes cover business school tuition for an MBA program, once a person has worked for them for a few years, and plans to continue with the same firm.</p>
<p>I don’t think the OP is saying her son can’t go to Kenyon, just trying to figure out if it makes sense. There is a large amount of money on the table. While it may have been saved for college, it certainly could be used for many other purposes - including helping the son in grad school or starting a career, or even to make the parents more comfortable in retirement or to take the family on a great vacation. </p>
<p>IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking the son to take cost into consideration. I don’t see enough of a difference between the two schools that the son could not be happy at either place. Is it really possible to figure out the perfect fit after a weekend or even a few weeks? My son had a good time at accepted students day when he went, because he met some nice kids. He did not really enjoy the overnight visit and probably would not have chosen the school on that basis alone. </p>
<p>This is not a choice between a Big State U and a LAC< it is choice between two highly ranked LACs (and the one offering the $$ is higher ranked, for what that is worth). Just taking a guess here, but it may be more about not wanting to go where Dad went than about the two schools any way. Hopefully, Kenyon will give some more $$ or another visit to Oberlin will change his mind. In any event, it sounds like he will end up some place great.</p>
<p>Quant-- I thought the boy was interested in English and writing. My guess is that most grad schools, at least Master’s programs, would be on him.</p>
<p>The number of fully funded MFA programs in the country is surprising–at least it was to me. These fit the paid tuition + living stipend model that I thought only applied in science and engineering. A large number of the Ph.D. programs in the humanities at top universities offer teaching assistantships or fellowships of some type. This was not so much the situation 30+ years ago.</p>
<p>But as I pointed out earlier, many are dealing with budget crunches by asking for a self-paid masters prior to a funded PhD. Fellowship spots have shrunken dramatically, which is not to say that no one gets them. Most MFA’s are not funded, though some, indeed, are.</p>
<p>Even though they may say they require a masters, it may not be necessary. Some students will have enough coursework to be accepted directly from undergraduate studies. These will probably be the students who already took college classes in the field as HS students. I, too, have been surprised at the number of funded MA programs in humanities. Some seem to be relatively new.</p>
<p>During the relatively short time my kids have been in graduate school, it seems to me the situation has become significantly more challenging even for the very best students. The competition is almost unbelievable, at least to me. It makes the undergrad application process look easy! It seems to me reasonable to be able to decide in college you want to be a mathematician, a scientist, a classicist, an art historian. And certainly you can begin to study those subjects for the first time seriously in college, but it will be very difficult, if not impossible, to become an employed professor (tenured or adjunct) in an area of study that you begin at the very late age of 19 or 20 or so. There seems to me something very wrong with this picture. And it doesn’t matter that our generation could decide “late” to go on to graduate school. I don’t think our kids really get to. And I really don’t think I’m exaggerating the current situation. Several really outstanding students I know didn’t get into any programs this year. The sort of students who have very advanced course work, the highest grades, excellent LOR. This is not something I have ever seen before. Based on this year’s results, I have no idea what I would say to a child of mine planning on grad school a few years out.</p>
<p>This is too bad, alh. I agree with you that it ought to be possible to find a field for the first time in college, and then continue with it. I know one case that fits the scenario you are mentioning, of an outstanding student who wasn’t admitted for grad work, although the student applied only to the very top grad schools and the number of admitted students was really very small.</p>
<p>Now this is really depressing. And even more reason to take the merit money, IMHO.</p>
<p>I am not trying to be depressing, but realistic. I guess my opinion is that it makes sense now, more than ever, to study whatever makes you happy, do the hobbies you enjoy, and live pretty much in the moment. We have these threads about HS students upset that all their hard work didn’t pay off with the expected college admissions results. And some of them are surely planning on graduate school. If they don’t see the studies as worthwhile in and of themselves, does it make sense for them to do them?</p>
<p>IMHO this may mean concentrating on making the undergraduate experience the best possible, however the student defines best, without regard to later plans… just to try to get a little bit back on track of original post question.</p>
<p>I for one am not the least depressed with how competitive grad programs have become. I think it is utterly irresponsible for universities to expand their PhD programs to include everyone who wants in, knowing how few jobs there are at the other end. Yes, it is frustrating to be a college senior applying for very competitive doctorate programs. But if you don’t get in- you get to come up with plan B when you’re 22 years old. Not come up with plan B when you’re 30, doing your second Post-Doc or piecing together a living driving 300 miles a week splitting your time among three community colleges where you get to be an adjunct with no benefits and no long term career prospects.</p>
<p>There are SO MANY KIDS enrolled in grad programs now getting Master’s degrees where their career options are no better than they were with just a BA. But two more years worth of loans. How does that make sense?</p>
<p>OP-- I have no words of wisdom except to say that very few 18 year olds really understand what it takes to earn enough money to have 10K saved… or 20K saved… or how earning 50K doesn’t yield 50K after FICA and everything else. So any conversation you have now that gets your son a little closer to understanding the magnitude of the financial decision is in and of itself a learning experience.</p>
<p>Blossom: mainly I agree with everything you wrote.</p>
<p>Already many programs are drastically cut back. I think mythmom alludes to that. Maybe it’s unethical to keep graduating PhDs for whom no jobs exist. However I’m concerned when programs are cut too drastically we get back to an earlier model where only those from affluent backgrounds end up teaching in universities. For some fields where you may need to decide your course of study and plan accordingly almost while still in high school to be competitive, this may already to happening. I know more than a few college professors whose parents were not college graduates. I don’t think I know any current graduate students for whom that is the case.</p>
<p>I’ve been thinking about posts QuantMech made on a much earlier thread questioning what it means when the only Art History Profs are the ones for whom paying for an MA wasn’t a big deal. Yes, it changes the field a lot imho It changes the whole university.</p>
<p>ALH, which fields require deciding your course of study while in HS to be competitive? I think this is a canard akin to “you can’t get into Med school unless you are pre-med” and “your kid should go to Reed if he or she is interested in a doctorate since statistically speaking, Reed and Haverford produce more PhD’s per capita than MIT or Cal Tech”.</p>
<p>I am sad when I meet young adults from humble backgrounds (low income or first gen college) who are enrolling in third tier doctorate programs of questionable value while loading up with loans. I am sad to meet young adults of any socio-economic background who believe that their lives will be over if they don’t get into a particular grad program. I think the higher ed industry bears some responsibility for that, and the rest of us should work hard to help young people understand that there are many ways to skin the cat.</p>
<p>I work in corporate HR and interview people every week who are “stuck” with an unmarketable master’s degree which they were told was the golden ticket. Master’s in Event Management? Master’s degree in Strategic Communication? Master’s degree in Real Estate development/management? My company hires people for event management, communications and real estate management and as far as I can recall, we have never hired anyone with a master’s in any of those disciplines for those jobs. If you’re interested in event planning, get a BA in anthropology or literature… it will be more useful.</p>
<p>But again- which fields require a kid to plan in HS? I’d love to see data on that. I am highly skeptical that this is true.</p>