My son doesn't want to go where he got merit awards

<p>Interesting comparison of the Common Data Sets for the two colleges. From a quick look, Oberlin looks somewhat stronger, in terms of the student body, with 50.6% of the enrolled students at Oberlin scoring 700-800 on the SAT CR, vs. 41.5% at Kenyon. In math, the per cent of enrolled students scoring 700-800 was 34.7% at Oberlin vs. 23.5% at Kenyon. In writing, 50.0% at Oberlin vs. 47.7% at Kenyon. 68% of the enrolled students at Oberlin were in the top 10% of their high school classes, vs. 59% at Kenyon.</p>

<p>That’s not the whole story, though, in my opinion. Kenyon provides the full data on the 25 %ile and 75 %ile of the incoming class, for SAT CR, M, and W, ACT composite, M, and Eng, while Oberlin declines to provide those data. Kenyon shows that 69% of its enrolled students submitted SAT scores and 47% submitted ACT scores. Oberlin declines to provide those data. Kenyon shows 60.1% of the enrolled students with ACT composite scores from 30-36, while Oberlin shows only 43.4% in that category on the ACT composite. Kenyon shows 70.2% of the students with ACT English from 30-36 and 41.3% with ACT Math from 30-36, while Oberlin again declines to provide the data.</p>

<p>On the whole, I’d call it even, with a slight edge to Kenyon for the provision of full data.</p>

<p>I live on the East Coast (in the NYC area) and I think highly of Kenyon. It turns out great writers. Paul Newman donated so much money (an alum) that the theater department is fabulous too. The Kenyon review is very well known and respected.</p>

<p>The campus is breathtaking. The academics are very good.</p>

<p>The kid I know at Kenyon from NH is brilliant and has had very impressive internships.</p>

<p>I have friends who are very loyal to Kenyon and sent all five of their children there. Their dad is an alum.</p>

<p>I think highly of Oberlin, too. </p>

<p>Did my kids look at them? No. I couldn’t either of them west of the Hudson, with the small concession my S made to apply to U of Chi, but he didn’t attend.</p>

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<p>While Oberlin is better known and in some quarters…better regarded than Kenyon…the above would have been overstating the case at the NYC public magnet I attended. While Oberlin was regarded more highly…Kenyon still was regarded in a similar range. </p>

<p>Main differential was on the basis of political leanings and desired major. </p>

<p>Radical-left neo-hippie liberals who were politically vocal, potential STEM majors who wanted an LAC experience, potential East Asian Studies related majors, music/conservatory majors, and vocal more conservative gadflies who wanted to argue with the former types of students went Oberlin. </p>

<p>Those who were more quiet politically apathetic/center-right leaning, English/lit oriented/humanities, or otherwise “more mainstream/preppy” students tended to go Kenyon.</p>

<p>Granted, this was back in the early-mid’90s so some of the political stuff may not be as much of the case today.</p>

<p>I feel the OP’s pain - but with a slight twist. My D was accepted to both Oberlin and Kenyon, as well as some other good LACs. We visited both after she was accepted. Each school offered her substantial merit money, although Oberlin offered more. We could afford to send her to either school without any merit money, but, admittedly, the money offers were nice. Money for grad or professional school and all that. Some of the other LACs that accepted her offered money as well, but she liked Oberlin and Kenyon and was actually deciding between the two of them at that point - they are certainly different schools, but each was quite impressive in its own way. She chose Oberlin at the last minute (had to fed ex the check the next morning). We let her make her own decision about which school she wanted to attend. The merit money was a bonus. A year later, she decided she really wasn’t happy at Oberlin and transferred to another LAC. One that doesn’t give merit money except for National Merit Scholars (and even that is token). In addition, of course, the likelihood of getting merit money as a transfer is pretty small, even if the school gives any. Ouch. So, it’s not over till it’s over. Even if your child picks a school that provides aid, it is still an uncertain thing. C’est la vie.</p>

<p>All I have to say is PLEASE be honest and open with him about your financial situation. Nobody wants to pay more than they have to for school, but please don’t try to persuade your son to go somewhere solely because it’s less expensive.</p>

<p>I got into a school that I had been dreaming of for years, and my family led me to believe that it wasn’t a realistic option financially. Now, they told me they could have paid for me to go to the “dream school”. They just wanted me to go to my current school because I had a full ride, and it was closer to home.</p>

<p>With that said, I think you should tell your son the amount that you can realistically and comfortably pay and allow him to make an informed decision based on that. If he wants to go somewhere that will cost more than the amount you give him, he should have to take out loans or find additional scholarships to cover the remaining costs.</p>

<p>That’s just my opinion.</p>

<p>Lots of great posts here. Especially expecting the child to have some skin in the financial side.
I didn’t read the whole thread, but I told our DD that both parents fared well in life even though “first choice” schools were not financially available.
I asked her to look at course offerings, professors, study abroad options, etc. She made the decision on her own to accept the merit money.</p>

<p>Son received 4 year free Trustee Scholarship from USC. Also accepted to Cornell and Brown, both without FA. Currently leaning towards Brown. We’re not alone with this problem, based on these postings.</p>

<p>I don’t know if this is still the main topic of this thread-- only read the first few posts but I have visited both oberlin and kenyon. loved kenyon, I have respect for oberlin’s academics but I HATED the overall vibe I got from the school. I can’t see myself there at all and I think that it’s a school where you either like it or not. and it should definitely not be where your son goes if he does not feel right there.</p>

<p>“It sounds like the OP has tacitly set that limit at a level that would cover full cost, and is now observing that a lot of money could be saved at one of the other excellent choices.”</p>

<p>"We’re not alone with this problem, based on these postings. "</p>

<p>Yes, we are in the exact situation as OP, as above, only it’s our son’s dream choice (first tier) LAC vs. an new (but excellent and up and coming) LAC with merit aid. Son just told me tonight that, whereas he was feeling the financial pressure previously, he now thinks that he might grow more from choosing the path “less traveled by”, as it were (and cheaper).</p>

<p>Did he concoct this to save us all the money grief?</p>

<p>Yes many of the kids who receive free-tuition scholarships at USC also receive acceptances at ivies and other highly ranked Us with no funding. It is a tough choice for many and a quite a few do choose USC and similar Us with funding so they will have it for future schooling or other needs, while of course others do follow their hearts & choose elsewhere. It is nice to have options and interesting to see what decisions are made.</p>

<p>Our S had the option of paying full-freight at a few Us, getting an entirely full-ride at OOS publics or getting >50% tuition at expensive private. He chose the last of the 3 and was very happy with his selection. We have no regrets.</p>

<p>We have no regrets about our daughter’s ultimate decision. The road there was pretty bumpy though. Choosing a college isn’t an easy decision, and throwing in the possibility of aid, whether you need it or not, as an additional factor, just makes it all that much more difficult. I suppose for many of us, we are lucky and blessed to have these choices, but that doesn’t make the decision any easier. I agree with the other posters that have suggested putting all the cards on the table for your son. He needs to make the call that he will have to live with later.</p>

<p>Did you ever consider talking to the FA office at Kenyon? Given the situation they might be willing to work with your family. It’s worth a try.</p>

<p>OP is seriously not alone. Last night the family had the conversation after dinner regarding merit aid he had received at many schools and Holy Cross, who does not award any merit aid. After requiring him to justify spending the additional money it will cost to send him there ( I mean we literally asked him to write out a asset/liabilities leger for each school ) and then we had a non-emotional discussion and he articulated why Holy Cross was right for him. He will come out of undergrad now with “some” student loan debt, but that was a price he was willing to pay. They need to know it’s more about just “getting in” and that while it’s their life, the fiscal consequences trickle down to the whole family. Having said that, I feel relieved that the decision is made and am very excited for S to attend the college that he thinks will benefit and challenge him the most. :)</p>

<p>Definitely call the FA office at Kenyon. Let them know their school is your first choice, but that the competition has made an attractive offer. See if they can come up with something.</p>

<p>I just went through this with my D.</p>

<p>I told her that the only schools where price was no object were HYP. Otherwise price mattered.</p>

<p>Her list of accepted schools ranged from $16k to $56k. Told her that we’d be willing/able to commit $160k for her to spend as she wished – undergrad, grad school, car, house down payment, spring break trips, etc.</p>

<p>Making her have skin in the game actually helped her focus on what was important to her and what the real differences were between schools. She ended up making a good choice at a school that fit her well and which would not require her (after her merit scholarship) to take any loans.</p>

<p>If you walk onto a car lot with unlimited dollars and no budget, after all, why wouldn’t you always buy the Rolls or Ferrari?</p>

<p>We also called up the more expensive schools and told them of the better deals they we got elsewhere. We got a little extra money but not much. The schools are very sophisticated about how they use their limited merit dollars to attract certain kids (like your kid, for some reason at Oberlin but not at Kenyon).</p>

<p>OP, apologies if this has already been mentioned, but tell your kid upfront that taking the more expensive option will mean that you can’t pay for extras like spring break trips, intersession trips abroad, and so forth. We warned D1 that choosing the expensive full-pay over possible merit options meant that there wasn’t room in the budget for those kind of things, at least not on the parental tab. She doesn’t ask for money for expensive extras, because she knows that the big bucks are already being spent.</p>

<p>I don’t know why HYP should be redlined. They don’t necessarily provide the best education, the highest salaries, or the best alumni network, or even the best social experience.</p>

<p>They will yield that for some kids, but not all.</p>

<p>^ ^</p>

<p>It also wouldn’t have worked for someone who doesn’t want an Ivy league/research university undergrad experience or someone who was a hardcore engineering/STEM kid.</p>

<p>Heck…most parents at my STEM magnet high school would have regarded MIT, Caltech, CMU as far worthier schools than HY…and sometimes even P. Moreover, if an aspiring engineering/STEM kid wanted Ivy…they’re much more likely to opt for Cornell or even Columbia over HY and possibly even P. </p>

<p>I also have a good friend who had such a horrid experience as an engineering/STEM major at P that none of his closest friends ever knew he attended P until his sister casually mentioned it. The way he carried himself…we all thought he was an all-MIT kid from BS to PhD.</p>

<p>D,who is currently a sophomore in college, was fortunate enough to be accepted at some amazing colleges and universities with varying price tags. She was hopeful to secure some generous scholarships, but it was not the case. We were pleasantly surprised when she decided that her VA in-state colleges were a better value and thus chose one to attend. She loves her school and has never looked back.</p>

<p>I have asked a few things of my son since he has received acceptances. 1. Attitude: It’s a whole new world once you are NOW an admitted student so treat these colleges/universities as if you are seeing them again for the first time. Read everything you can, talk with current students, imagine yourself entering your senior year and where you wish to be four more years out with your major/minor, research, study abroad, and internships in your pocket. They now want you, too, so pay attention to how they woo you and what you can learn from your new status as accepted student. 2. Reality: Visit (or revisit) EVERY institution so far as it is practicable. My son saw some of these universities as far back as two summers ago and everything can change when faced with the reality of actually living, breathing, eating, and sleeping there for four years. It’s been enlightening for him, to say the least, to go to the accepted student days, weekends, and events. Universities that were no where near the top got re-ranked into more favorable status; a couple that started at the top are now at the bottom. 3. Finances: Spread sheets are your new best friend even if a parent is paying full fare. I mean, he’s going to have to be responsible for his own life if not now, then in a few more years, so start now. We did a spread sheet over spring break, laying out every option from his top choice to his bottom, with all costs, FA offers, comments, critiques, etc. He has learned a lot–like he will have some skin in the game with Stafford loans. Use the FA calculators the universities often have online for the accepted students. You can play out the entire four years and see roughly how much you will owe of your life to Uncle Sam or Bank of America.</p>