So I made a previous post about my son, who is in high school, is now looking at colleges. He is very interested in the liberal arts experience. He was primarily looking at Amherst and Bowdoin, as he liked the locations and thought they had good programs. However, he is somewhat dismayed by their strong athletic culture.
Many people suggested Swarthmore, Haverford, and Wesleyan. He is now looking at those as well. His thoughts:
Location: He worries that the Swarthmore campus is too rural and detached, as he would prefer to be in a suburban/city area with off-campus activities (museums, movies, restaurants, etc)
Athletic: My son is not athletic at all and is totally indifferent to sport. Whilst Wesleyan seems very interesting, he is worried it has a strong sport/school-spirit culture that he won’t fit into. We like how Haverford and Swarthmore don’t have football. On the other hand, we understand that Haverford and Swarthmore have required gym classes (respectively three and four).
Academics: All of these schools have strong academics. The only concern on this front is Swarthmore’s reputation as a type-A pressure cooker. When we had a virtual visit, somebody asked what students do for fun. The tour guide scoffed and said “Swatties don’t have time for fun. If you’re looking for that, this may not be the place for you.” The Haverford guide said most students were able to balance class and personal time. Having said that, my son found the Swarthmore honors program very interesting, especially the tutorials.
Curriculum: Wesleyan’s open curriculum struck my son as very interesting, and he says that is the major reason he is considering the college. He is not a fan of the aforementioned gym requirement at Haverford and Swarthmore.
Party culture: My son really is uninterested in party colleges and would strongly prefer somewhere without Greek Life. We know that Haverford and Swarthmore have both gotten rid of that.
Study abroad: We were very impressed by Swarthmore’s study abroad offerings. My son is especially interested in taking a semester or year in England.
He is unsure what he will major in, but he is interested in history, economics, and government. He is strongly considering law school after college. He also does not drive (we live in a city with public transport), if that matters.
Any information or insight is welcome. If people can recommend other colleges, that would be great too.
In regards to athletic culture, here is my take. Small schools generally have the same number of athletes as larger schools because the football team has X players, soccer has Y, etc but when your population is 30% or less than those, it seems like athletics takes over because there is a higher percentage of athletes relative to the student body.
That being said, D20 attends a “larger” LAC with sports, Greek life, and a “work hard, play hard” culture. She is not an athlete, not a partier, and not into Greek life at all. She has a group of like-minded friends. We toured dozens of LACs in the northeast and they all have a different feel. If he hasn’t found his “fit”, keep looking
He may be overthinking this. Wesleyan does not have a strong sports culture. But it does have lots of great restaurants and a multiplex within walking distance of the campus.
Swarthmore is located in a suburb of Philadelphia. Definitely not rural. Haverford is approximately 50% athletes and there is an oft-cited divide between athletes and non athletes on campus.
Both schools are part of a consortium that includes Bryn Mawr and UPenn.
Philly is very accessible by train from Haverford and Swarthmore.
I don’t if this anecdote helps, but I used to teach at a private school that sent kids to all the elite, top T20 colleges, including a steady stream to Swarthmore. The Swarthmore-bound kids were smart, no doubt. But they weren’t nose-to-the-grindstone, study-all-the-time kind of students (Or at least most of them weren’t.) In fact, one of my all-time favorite students went to Swarthmore - he played sports (but not well enough to be recruited), loved old cars, had a happy-go-lucky soul, and was clearly very popular with his classmates. I can’t imagine he stopped “having time for fun” in college.
Swarthmore is like in NYC if you compare it to Bowdoin, Amherst. There’s a train to Philly (which isn’t far) right at the edge of campus. And restaurants, etc. are nearby if I recall correctly.
These schools are all reaches - so hopefully he has some target schools too.
As for required fitness classes - if true, you should be glad - to make sure your son gets some level of exercise.
Reed in Portland has no sports and is a very good school. It’s across the river from Portland and is a very good school.
Macalester is somewhat urban - and a non-athlete would be fine.
I think you are being a tad analytical. Life is not lived on a list. All colleges have parties and all colleges will have the studious types. While some schools are more rigorous than others, all will offer opportunities to partake in clubs and all offer study abroad. Some may have deeper offerings than others but any of these schools will have more for you to choose from than you’ll ever need.
He’s going to law school - so there’s many schools out there that will work. And while you didn’t mention finances, you are talking about 7 years of college and perhaps you’d like some merit aid which you won’t find at any of these schools.
I’d suggest your son talk to kids on campus or the schools can arrange conversations. You can even find club leaders on line etc. or kids on linkedin and cold call them and find out the truths.
Analyzing this type of stuff on paper just won’t work.
Vassar is rigorous academically with a relatively open curriculum. Strong in his areas of interest and great resources and alumni network on par with schools you listed.
No football team and athletics are not a dominant force on campus. Social scene is relatively welcoming with different “groups” welcomed and intermingled. No fraternities either. Pretty relaxed in terms of pressure and lots of opportunities to work collaboratively.
Extensive junior year abroad options (not sure in a Covid world so please confirm).
Gorgeous campus (archetype northeastern LAC) that is largely separated from the city of Poughkeepsie (which doesn’t offer much culturally). The only box it didn’t readily seem to check from your list was immediate city proximity. That said it is easy to get to Metro North train for a NYC trip. Kids do it all the time just requires some planning.
Added plus is that while the school is highly selective it is an easier acceptance for males given the schools seven sister legacy.
Any other folks with Vassar experience please correct and or add as my info may be dated. Good luck.
Let me add a couple of additional observations about sports at Wesleyan.
I’ve been to football games at Wes. There are not big crowds at these games. A lot of parents, family, & friends of the players.
Wesleyan has the largest enrollment by a lot of any of the NESCAC schools except for Tufts. As Helpingmom40 pointed out, the number of athletes to field a team stays constant. As the enrollment increases, the percent decreases. In addition, Wesleyan does not field teams in all of the sports that NESCAC sponsors. They field 29 men’s & women’s teams teams combined. Williams, for example fields 32 teams. And Wesleyan has an undergrad enrollment (~3000) almost 50% higher than Williams’ (~2000). And Wes has a few hundred grad students on campus in addition vs a couple of dozen at Williams. Wesleyan just has a lot fewer athletes on campus as a percent of the student body. Or another way to put it is that Wes has a lot more non-athletes walking around on campus.
Check for yourself. You might want to plan your visits on a football Saturday.
Everyone’s heard of reach schools, which are all the schools on your list. What are the targets and safeties? You need to spend as much time, or more, even, on them.
I will throw out Connecticut College and Skidmore as possibly being target/safeties if your son is in striking range of Amherst, Bowdoin etc.
Has your S visited any of these schools? I highly recommend that, as each school is different. What does he want his college experience to be? What interests does he have in terms of extracurriculars, hobbies, etc.?
IME Bowdoin does not have an athletic/non-athlete divide, it is a very inclusive community. Same at Wesleyan. You do see that divide more at Williams, Midd, and Amherst. Amherst is known for other groups not mixing much either…for example, at meal time students seem segregated by race. Again, all IMO.
Haverford is small, so that must appeal. There was also some activism on campus this past year where not all the students were on board…so research that.
Swat is academically intense…does that appeal to your S? Swat is suburban, so I don’t think it would be feel too rural.
I would think that these schools study abroad opportunities would be similar, and not a point of differentiation.
This is mostly for Early Decision. He and his counsellor have made a list of less competitive colleges whose admissions statistics are below his numbers. Thank you for asking.
My older D graduated from Pomona in 2019. But she spent an exchange semester during her junior year at Swarthmore, so she was able to compare the Pomona vibe (laid back West Coast) to the Swattie vibe (they sell T shirts that say things like “Swat Life - Anywhere Else it Would’ve Been an A.”) While at Swat she took an advanced Spanish class, real analysis, a computer science class (data structures & algorithms) and an intermediate level economics class. She felt that the two schools were basically identical in terms of academic rigor, grading and amount of homework. But Swatties take pride in their reputation for intensity and sort of a “misery poker” attitude about how hard they work.
One of the administrators she met at Swat told her that if you invite a Swattie and a Pomona student to a party on a Friday night, the Swattie will say no way, I’m too busy and the Pomona kid will say “absolutely” but in reality both will go to the library first to work until 10 pm and then go to the party.
Thank you for commenting.
From what we have heard, there is a lot less activity in Swarthmore than in Haverford.
My impression is that both Haverford and Swarthmore were not as sporty due to the lack of football and membership in the NESAC. Are you aware if there is such a divide between athletes and non-athletes at Swarthmore?
Thank you for commenting.
I’m sure there are a variety of students at any given college, and generalizations can only go so far. I was just citing what I had heard from the tour guide as well as others familiar with the college.
