My son has been accepted to UVA, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, and USF. He has received financial aid packages from all the schools but Notre Dame. We assume that one’s on the way. He is having difficulty trying to decide which one he should attend. As a Florida resident, USF would be the least costly–closer to home, in-state tuition and state-sponsored scholarships available. His concern is the reputation of the school compared to that of the others along with its retention and graduation rates that are not as high as the others. He received a good financial aid package from UVA and a better one from Vandy. Since he doesn’t know what he’ll major in, it’s difficult to compare the schools.Any ideas on what approach he should take? Ready to hear all options. Thanks in advance from a mom who wants to help her son, but without the knowledge on how.
I hate to say it, but in my opinion you would be crazy to let him turn down a name school like UVA or Vanderbilt for USF. There are many kids who would kill for the opportunity to go there. He is right about the prestige factor- it will last for life- and USF has none in that department. May be even more important if he ends up going to graduate school later. Has he visited them all? They will have very different flavors ( personalities) and this is a big, big decision. I don’t know much about Notre Dame other than they have a few superb schools, but one friend of mine who went said that the ‘catholic’ personality that came through the administration was not to her liking and a drag after four years ( and she’s a happy catholic). That’s something I never would have even thought of. I’ve known a few UVA’ers, and they all loved it ( sorry, I know that’s not very specific) . I personally would not consider a place I hadn’t visited, so if he hasn’t had a chance to do that, drop everything, jump in the car and drive up the coast!! Chances are he’ll make up his mind more easily if he hasn’t done it yet. Good luck.
He will be an academic outlier at USF. That is something to consider.
It sounds like your son hasn’t thought about criteria for deciding where to go, hence the puzzlement he faces. Most books about college admissions devote a chapter to finding the right school(s) for the student and often another to what to look for and ask about on campus visits. One book I like is “Admission Matters”.
Schools differ on dozens of criteria, its up to him to figure out which ones matter to him and then see how they apply to his choices. To name but a few: class size, are students given an faculty advisor, where students live, is it a college town, is housing guaranteed, is there a big greek scene, is it easy to change majors within a college at the U or to switch colleges entirely, do many students study abroad, does the career center link students to grads who can talk about their career, where do students come from (local, statewide, national), etc.
I honestly think it’s better to make decisions about undergrad colleges without considering majors. I think so many students get hung up on comparing “departments” or “programs” in a specific major, and then end up changing their major anyway. You want to go somewhere where there’s a good overall undergraduate education. Most places that are excellent overall are at least solid in all of their departments.
That said - how big are the differences in pay between USF and UVa or Vanderbilt? That will make a big difference. Are UVa and Vanderbilt affordable for your family? Will either put either you or your son in big debt? Vanderbilt is an excellent school and if that’s the second-best financial aid package, I think the choice should really be between them and USF. But which one is going to depend on the costs.
Frankly, if Vanderbilt was affordable for the family and didn’t result in big debt, and your son feels comfortable there, I’d choose Vanderbilt.
Retention and graduation rates are partially based upon inputs - the students who go there. Yes, schools like UVa and Vanderbilt have better student support and more resources to help students who are struggling. However, they also bring in fewer students who are struggling overall - because the students they attract graduated near the tops of their classes and tend to be more affluent (meaning they have more at-home support from family and friends). If your son is sufficiently motivated and has support from you, he can graduate from USF in four years. Retention may be because students use USF as a stepping stone to the better-reputed FL universities (FSU, UF…). But it’s worth asking about.
Depending upon the differences in cost and your family’s budget and/or desire to finance college, you would, to steal a phrase, be crazy to not choose USF. Save the money for grad school. The reputation only lasts a lifetime in the sense that he can brag to others about where he got his BS. Once he has landed the first ‘real’ job the perceived quality of the education becomes moot. It is more about the work experience.
If all costs are effectively equal, go to the school that is the best fit for the student. Each of these has a distinct personality. He your son the type to be lonely too far from home? Would he feel smothered too close to home? Does he prefer academic challenges or does he prefer to coast a bit more?
A note on Notre Dame…as a practicing Catholic, it is not a Catholic college. It is a college with Catholic roots and imagery. If you are devout Catholics it will not be what you would expect. If your son is put off by religious imagery, then he may not like it either. They do have a great university otherwise, My understanding is that they are no so good with the financial aid for many.
Good luck. It is always difficult to make these seemingly life-altering decisions. Ultimately, he will do as well as he drives himself regardless of the college he attends.
Thanks for your response, but I don’t know what is meant by being an “academic outlier.” My understanding of USF is that it has all levels of students matriculating at that school,including some National Merit Scholars in the Honors College that has accepted my son already.
Thanks for your insight and comments. We really hadn’t considered how influential the Catholic imagery would be upon a student. We are not Catholics and have no desire to become entwined in that religious affiliation. Something good to know is that their financial aid packages may not be as generous as the other schools.
Thanks for your advise on the book to read. I hope it’s in our local library. He has visited all the campuses on campus tours, but only saw dorms at USF and UVA. He actually had an opportunity to spend the night at UVA and really liked the school and the students he met there. We were not aware that Vanderbilt offered a similar program until last week.
Thanks for your information. Considering what you said, my son’s attendance at either Vanderbilt or UVA will not put us in financial jeopardy. Were he to attend USF, he would actually earn money with the Florida scholarships and grants extended to Florida students with his GPA and test scores. I’m still wondering how much is “prestige” worth from attending a premier university over just another “good” state university when it comes to getting a good-paying job. Any ideas?
@lawgirl76, my D has been accepted at ND and we are visiting again this weekend. She went to their Leadership Seminar last summer and loved ND - and she is not Catholic. I was raised Catholic but I do not practice and she was not raised Catholic and she felt nothing but included there. Honestly, I would not worry about the Catholic imagery there - not a factor for her at all, and I don’t get the earlier comment about that. The FA package that she received was very good. Surprisingly so. I wish you all luck on this decision!
Honestly, if it’s not the end of the world financially to send him to Vanderbilt or UVA, I would say send him to one of those. Otherwise, if you are not comfortable taking out PLUS loans or taking from accounts, then send him to USF. He will receive a good education there. Obviously, it’s not on the prestige level of Vandy or UVA, but choosing that prestige is strictly a personal preference. Your question at the end of post 9 is a loaded one that causes lots of debate because there is never ONE answer. There is no right answer and it obviously boggles brains because the answer depends on the situation.
You said he visited all the schools. How did he feel about all of them? UVA, Vandy, and USF are all different.
If you pardon me for answering for someone else, it means that your son would be at the high end of the curve and would stand out. Profs would be happy to have a kid like that in their class and are more likely to extend opportunities for research and internships, they may take him on as an unofficial “advisee”, etc.
As for ND, I didn’t go there but have a few friends that did. They felt that the school did things that helped foster bonds between students. The greek system is not officially recognized by the school so it doesn’t play the same strong role it might at some of the other schools on your list. ND students start in a dorm and are affiliated with it the entire time they are in school, even if they no longer live in it. The upshot is you get a sense of belonging without the exclusion that can come in the greek system. My friends also did mention that students were competitive; in a friendly way, not cutthroat sabotage, but competitive nonetheless. This is all 2nd-hand, of course, I would strongly suggest visiting to talk to current students to see if it is right for him.
What are his thoughts so far, why did he apply to these colleges? Is relative cost an issue at all or only distance from home for you?
My daughter went to a highly selective private for undergrad and a large very strong state school for grad school and was a TA there and she more and more comments on the opportunities that she had as an undergrad that are harder to get as an undergrad at big state U. Particularly the close relationships with professors, the advanced level of the courses, the ease of being involved in research with professors, funds available for projects and research, and yes the job opportunities. I can’t really compare job offers because she did go to grad school, but the students she knows do well and she even gets offers from old classmates connections.
“Academic outlier” means a student at the small tail end of the curve. Likely means good grades and more faculty attention for academic outliers at the top, but if the courses are tuned for less able students, they may be less satisfying or challenging. Honors courses may be of interest to such a student, if offered. At a large school, there may be sufficient numbers of academic outliers for the student to find a peer group if so desired (or a honors program may exist to help them find each other); at a small school, there may be very few to find a peer group of.
Perhaps the big issue is how much the net price difference is, and whether additional debt would be needed, or if the parental finances would be difficult (in terms of parents’ retirement or funding for younger kids going to college).