I am a bit concerned that my son wants (initiated the conversation himself with his advisor and she approved it) to take Geometry, Algebra 2, and Physics his Sophomore year.
He currently is a Freshman and taking Algebra 1 and getting an A. His goal is to major in Business in college and it’s my understanding he has to complete Calculus his senior year to apply and be accepted into a top business school. I am not necessarily concerned with him taking Geometry and Algebra 2 together, however the Physics component that is mandatory his Sophomore year is the most concerning to me. I am also concerned with him taking 3 math classes his Sophomore year that he might find he is stressed out and his grades will slip (he currently has a 3.8 GPA).
I am questioning the importance of him needing to take Calculus his senior year. His advisor states that if he doesn’t complete Calculus his senior year he will most definitely need to take AP Pre-Calc and AP Stats to have any business school even look at him. Does anyone have any experience with their son/daughter having difficulties applying and getting accepted into a Business School without Calculus?
Thank you for any help or guidance you can offer.
I do think calculus his senior year is a good idea. However, since he waited until 9th to take algebra, he won’t be on track unless he takes a math course in the summer. This is what I’d do rather than take physics and two maths in one year. That could be very stressful and cause burnout.
I knew several kids who did geometry in the summer, then did algebra 2 sophomore year.
That’s a TON of nightly homework. But the bigger concern is this: Math is like a language. It takes time to digest. My son did the same thing (without the physics) - two math courses at the time time his sophomore year in order to try to fit in Calculus his senior year. The result was that he did not get a full understanding of either of the two maths and this caused him to struggle in precalc the next year.
I can’t speak to the requirements as an applicant to college (directly to business schools). Frankly, I’d get on the telephone to five schools and ask them straight out (unless you can find the information on their web pages).
Also, speaking from experience, I have not found advice from school counselors (even college advisors) to be useful on the issue of what may be an overload schedule. They usually just say…if the kid wants it, go for it. But that is not good advice.
Thank you for the valuable information. Massmomm and profdad2021, I appreciate the guidance.
My D did that in 9th grade, she had Honors algebra 2, honors Geometry, Honors Physics, AP HG, Honors English, fine art elective and foreign language elective. It was overwhelming but doable.
However, a lot depends upon individual student, teachers and school. If she didn’t have to stay of after school/ Saturday rehearsals then it could’ve been easier. It wasn’t difficult but very time consuming.
However, all competitive students in her school do that so she wasn’t doing anything special. Some kids of GPA gamers parents were taking honors pre-cal instead of Alg/Geo and AP Physics as they tested out of regular Physics so didn’t have to take honors physics.
I think it really depends on the student and teachers if it would be too much. Is it regular physics? What is the reputation of the teacher? My son enjoys math and took both Algebra 2 honors and Geometry honors freshman year. They were doable as they are different concepts of math. Sophomore year he took Pre-calc honors (have not heard of AP Pre-calc), and this year as a junior is taking Calc BC. Some students take a different route and end up taking Calc AB senior year and don’t double up on math. My daughter never took Calc in high school. She took Stats at a local college as dual enrollment. It transferred to her college which covered her math requirement.
How would this apply to a Business School? It could depend on the college. I think calling a few and researching online would give you a good idea. For example, Ohio State Fisher College of Business requires either Business Calculus or Calculus I, therefore IMO taking a Calc course in high school would be recommended.
How intense is the physics class? Some are very mathy and others are more conceptual.
Is there any other math path to reach his goals? (For example, taking pre-cal the summer before senior year, if his goals haven’t changed in the meantime.)
Physics or physical science? They have suddenly decided physical science should be for sophomores here, per my son’s new GC. My daughter took physics as a junior. She was glad she had finished pre-calc before Physics and that the rest of the students in the class were struggling without the pre-calc knowledge. Assuming that to be the case for most, it might would be difficult to be only in Algebra 2 while taking it?
^^I was going to ask the same thing. In our public school freshman take physical science which is pretty math intensive but not true physics. Many students who did not have the opportunity to take algebra in 8th grade (one class only and its selective) would double up on algebra II and geometry in sophomore year to get to calc by senior year. That would likely be pared with bio though and less math.
Both my kids took bio freshman year then chemistry as sophomores, but I had to fight them to get my son in Chem. My daughter was in a different school district for middle school and was able to take Algebra in 7th. This made getting the math in much easier, but left her with no advanced math to take as a senior when AP stats didn’t make.
@jcmom716 not sure what op means by it, but I have seen references to AP Pre-calc being Pre-calc for AP Calc bound students
@MRR2020 if your son doesn’t take Calc senior year, will he take some math? Apparently there needs to be math beyond algebra 2 and a class senior year to look good for college.
I don’t know about other schools but in ours most competitive students who get admitted to good programs and schools, are usually done with AP Calculus BC and AP Statistics by junior year. You have to do what’s standard for your campus and what’s doable for your kid. A kid who is good in math, should be able to handle your schedule with good effort. In some schools, freshmen are allowed to take AP physics, AP Statistics and Calculus AB. Standards vary so much from one school to another, it’s mind boggling.
Babson is a selective undergrad business school and they suggest precalc at least.
http://www.babson.edu/admission/undergraduate/applying-to-babson/Pages/evaluation-criteria.aspx
I would just check websites and if the info isn’t available there, email or call various schools.
I think that geometry and algebra are sufficiently different and distinct to take at once. In other words, one isn’t foundational for the other. If the physics is taken before calculus, it must be a non-mathy physics.
If he is also taking English, history, and foreign language that is a lot.
I will say that Babson emphasizes admissions is “holistic” and activities and service are important, so if taking too many academic classes interferes with other aspects of high school life and personal development, it might not be a good idea.
It’s pre-APcalc. Not AP pre-calc.
I agree with @SugarlessCandy - the kids who get into top business schools in our area have completed AP Calc
BC and AP Stats by junior year -
As for whether your student is about to become stressed out by taking such a workload, this would depend on the quality of your school. Some schools coddle their students and hand out A’s liberally - while others only hand 1 or 2 A’s per year, tops. If he is “only” getting a 3.8 currently and has not taken Algebra 2 yet, I would be concerned about him potentially becoming overwhelmed with Alg 2, Geom and Physics. Kids who can handle such a workload quite often are those who find the work easier. As a freshman, S and D both had all three of these classes, and they found several sophomores in these classes with them. During parent orientation night in the fall, one of their teachers told all the parents “There are freshman and sophomores in this class, and usually it will be the sophomores who will struggle. But these are important classes for those who wish to attend college, as a lot of this material ends up on the SAT and ACT tests. So encourage your child to get extra help - it is available”
High school physics is usually taken later (after algebra 2), since even non-calculus-based physics tends to use math more than other non-math subjects.
Our high school had physics as a sophomore course for those taking Algebra 2 concurrently so this schedule doesn’t seem impossible to me. I agree geometry and algebra2 have very little overlap. If he’s a math science kid, he might even find it easier than taking more writing intensive courses.
Don’t be put off by posters who say that in their schools Calc BC and AP Stats is the norm for junior year. At most high schools in the country there will be no one this advanced. In my kids high school out of 600+ kids only 6 were taking calculus as juniors.
My S attends a Private Prep High School. All his classes are Honors. I have spoken to his Physics teacher and it is a true Physics class. His Sophomore year class schedule would look like this if he kept all 3 classes:
Honors Geometry
Honors Algebra 2
Honors Physics
Honors Spanish 4
Honors English Lit
Honors History
Our main concern for our S is keeping his GPA at 3.8 and above. We aren’t concerned with our S keeping up with the rest of the students in his class nor the rest of the country, we are concerned about him being placed where he can be challenged, but not overwhelmed. We have the resources to get him a tutor. I appreciate all the feedback that has been given.
@MRR2020 My D attends a private school with a heavy workload. Based on her experience I would say that you need to monitor your S’s stress level and hours of sleep. If he has to work until midnight on almost every weekday to finish homework and prepare for quiz and project, that is not a good sign. If there is a marked (and prolonged) worsening in his mood after school starts, there is another warning sign.
There is a fine line between being challenged and being overwhelmed. Good schools will necessarily push their kids to test their envelope. Both parents and kid have to determine whether the kid is just going through a baptism of fire or simply an educational hell detrimental to the kid’s psyche. You and your S will have to work that out. Good luck.
Is each class taught in one semester or in the entire year? If 2 math classes are taught in 2 different semesters then he should be OK.
Rigorous physics class requires some algebra 2 knowledge (sine, cosine, tangent, exponent) and some geometry (triangle similarity, proportion). You should ask the physics teacher if he/she would recommend that schedule.
He will be very busy but it’s doable with hard work. In addition, he can find out whether he can cope well facing challenging course loads. It’s best to do this all sophomore year because junior year he will be busy taking AP tests, SATs etc. Both my kids finished all their APs, SATs by the summer of junior year and they applied and were accepted to their ED schools. My son attended undergrad Wharton and was glad he had taken AP Calc in HS and wished he had completed AP stats too.