Naive and unprepared in CA

[polarscribe]

<p>This is very fitting, then, seismomom - tell your daughters my dad’s story. He dropped out of high school in the hippie 60s, then started taking motorcycle mechanic classes at his local community college - Easy Rider, man!</p>

<p>Except that he found that he loved learning after all, as long as it wasn’t high school BS. He transferred to CSU Northridge for his BA in anthropology, and was immediately accepted to graduate school at UC Berkeley, where he earned a Ph.D in… paleontology!</p>

<p>I, too, took the community college route, and do not regret it for a moment. Don’t listen to the mouth-breathing morons who think a CC transcript is some sort of academic scarlet letter - it’s not. In the real world outside College Confidential’s elitist bubble, academics come from a variety of traditional and non-traditional paths - including (gasp) community college. </p>

<p>In California, at least, community colleges are not overgrown high school. They can be wonderful springboards for career and academic success for those who need or want a different path.</p>

[seismomom]

<p>@calmom–just reading undergrad student reviews of SFSU where several complained over the past couple of years about not being able to finish in even 5 years because they can’t get into classes they need to complete a degree. Also classrooms where 20+ students are sitting on the floor due to lack of desks/seats and overcrowded classes. Scary. I guess we should be budgeting for 5 - 6 years when looking at CSU school costs. Do you think the UCs are faring any better than the CSUs? I guess there are fewer schools and they had bigger budgets to start, but I think it’s an average of 5 years to get a BA/BS degree at a UC, too, due to similar problems.</p>

<p>@polarscribe–thanks for your dad’s great story! I’ll pass it on. (I also took the ‘community college, then transfer to a 4-year’ route myself–6 years after dropping out of Indiana University during my junior year to work and travel). It’s high school friends that are convincing D2 she’ll be a loser and stuck in her hometown forever if she goes to the local CC. A peer pressure thing, I guess…but she’s starting to listen to reason (and the almighty dollar). :-/</p>

[Kender]

<p>Do you know which CCC is your closest option? If possible, I highly recommend De Anza. Not only are both incredible institutions that are widely recognized even outside of California (their student body senate has had multiple years working with a $1million budget separate from the school’s budget), but there was a scholarship available specifically for transfer to UCSC. $10k a year I believe (for a total of two years)? I honestly never looked up the details since I learned about it too late and it does require being nominated. But attending a CCC closer to UCSC could be beneficial in terms of transfer scholarships if UCSC is the ideal.</p>

<p>I’m a student who did the CCC –> UCSC route and I have a couple friends who graduated from SF State. Obviously I’m biased ;)</p>

<p>On class impact:
SF State has definitely been hit hard. My friend was lucky to graduate in 4 years from there in 2007. She commuted every day on BART during each semester and all summer sessions to meet this, though. Another friend who graduated a couple years ago was struggling to graduate within 5 years because of the loss of classes.</p>

<p>However, UCSC is not faring much better. We have new significant cuts that have already greatly damaged our academic life (we’ve lost entire departments and several faculty). We’ve been getting emails recently that the permanent cuts that have been made the last couple years will reduce the pain from the new cut in funding, but are quality of education is now severely at risk (or so the emails are now reading). I really don’t know where your daughter would be better off in terms of classes.</p>

<p>However, I have found that as a transfer, I have been better off than many who began as freshman. I am better prepared and I only have to worry about my major related courses. I am not fighting with anyone for GE courses.</p>

<p>One of the CCCs near me used to be “lovingly” dubbed “Last Minute Choice.” It was considered for those who had no options. So I can empathize with your daughter’s worry about CCC as an option. It is a good option, though, that will give her so many opportunities. The best part I loved was that no one was required to be there. If someone was being disruptive, the instructor had the right to kick that person out. And as many of the classes I took were for transfer, I was surrounded by others attempting to transfer as well. People want to be there. It’s definitely a huge change from high school.</p>

<p>There is a great program called TAG (Transfer Agreement Guarantee) that all of the UCs use except for UCLA and UCB. At UCSC, we have a special department just for transfers. They are such a wonderful group of people. I’ve never utilized their services because I’ve had no need to, but I do love to go spend time just talking with them from time to time. They are a wealth of information.</p>

<p>I can’t praise the transfer program enough. Despite the cuts, the UCs, CSUs, and CCCs seem to be doing their best to ensure that all students receive as good an education as possible. Obviously is not for everyone, but I highly suggest keeping it open as a possibility. I know the others will be able to impart better advice as to how to deal with paying for both daughters and remaining fair. That’s far outside my realm of knowledge.</p>

[mom2collegekids]

<p>and learned she will only get the WUE, not the $20k achievement award (they give the one with most value but not both). That still brings COA from $30k to $20k per year, which is good but still means student loans and parentPlus loans. She really has her heart set on going to this school and* I would love to make it work – but at the cost of D2’s future and chances, too??***</p>

<p>It is NOT a good idea to take out any loans that would mean that when D2 transfers from a CC that you’re not in any position to help her as well. That would be a double-whammy for her because she would have given up a lot to go to a CC first and then be told that there’s no room for her in your wallet because all is going to D1.</p>

<p>Find out from D1’s school about the possibility of paid-internships or co-ops or something else to help defray some costs. </p>

<p>since your H has PE experience, has he looked into working at a fitness center or rehab center? It would seem like he’d be qualified to train and/or manage. Or, perhaps become a personal coach for kids with high dreams for certain sports.</p>

[cptofthehouse]

<p>The big mistakes we made as a family were spending too much up front on the older kids’ educations. One aspect of this was paying full freight for a top priced college for my oldest. That alone didn’t sink us; but it sure made things go down faster. That my second one went to a state school and had a scholarship his first year, really kept us barely above water those years. That, among other reasons is why we are on a strict budget with our younger ones. We learned first hand the hard way what happens when you overspend, over borrow for college. Our oldest is going to be 28 this year and we are still feeling the effects of those decisions made 10 years ago. In fact, we are feeling the brunt of them more than those first years that we made those moves.</p>

[annikasorrensen]

<p>You might want to also take a look at West Valley College - they have a 20K transfer scholarship to UCSC (it is not well advertised, so the student should proactively ask around at the transfer office). </p>

<p>Also, West Valley has an anthropology teacher who was this year’s “California Professor of the Year”. He regularly takes students on digs down in the Santa Cruz area and spends his summers doing research in Belize. He got his PHD at UCLA and is a fantastic teacher, mentor and person. Because anthro classes cap at 40 at WVC, students really get to know the professor (Dr. Andy Kindon). If someone were to take the same class at UCLA, the same book is used, but the student sits in an auditorium with 400 other kids and gets to know the TA. At WVC, the student gets to know the professor on a first name basis and potentially get some field experience if that is of interest to them. (Anthro classes are some of the first to fill up at WVC…if your daughter/s go, write for tips on how to get into “full” classes.)</p>

<p>WVC also has a great Honors Program which caps classes at about 20 students for an almost seminar styled classroom experience–these classes are full of the students who go on to transfer to the UCs and privates. WVC also has a great Honors Club called Alpha Gamma Sigma. Not only are the students awesome, but the professor/advisors to this service organization are some of the very best on campus and can act as mentors as well.</p>

<p>DeAnza has a lot going for it as well, but it is double the size of WVC (25k students vs about 12k students)–different feel, different programs. Definitely worth checking out.</p>

<p>The thing is that most students with a little bit of initiative can get an amazing education at a 2year college in California. Of course there is some “extended HS” stuff going on at CCC…but if a student looks to clubs, honor courses and the likes, they soon find themselves surrounded by bright, goal oriented transfer students like themselves.</p>

[Kender]

<p>That $20k scholarship at WVC is actually the same one I was talking about at De Anza :). It’s also available at Foothill, Cabrillo, and a few others. Like you said: not well advertised. Hard to remember all the CCCs that have access to that particular scholarship.</p>

<p>Only reason I specifically mentioned De Anza was because my experience was the campus has experienced the least hit to student services because of the budget the student senate has. There is an honors program at De Anza as well (which last I saw had heavy support from the student senate). De Anza operates on the quarter system so this could be a good or bad thing.</p>

<p>Something good to note is that both WVC and De Anza are in similar locations. I’ve known people to take classes at both as well as any number of the other CCCs in the area. South Bay Area is saturated with CCCs. That actually is a good way to transfer within two years and to get classes one might have missed out on.</p>

<p>However, if the OP is no where near the South Bay Area, this is all a moot point. There are other very good CCCs in other parts of the Bay, though.</p>

[Olymom]

<p>Please encourage the D’s to see if they can test out of any requirements or test for credit. That is a tiny drop in the bucket, but at this point, every drop helps. </p>

<p>I know you are devastated – but please don’t carry this burden alone. Take the kids on a walk or defrost a pizza and lay out your most outrageous fears (uneducated D takes in laundry for a living, starts dealing in unregistered hamsters, marries a cult member and grows old farming non organic tomatoes in a nuclear submarine turned house boat . . .). Once we look down the scariest road possible, then it is possible to laugh and cry and find a way out of the swamp. </p>

<p>We all love giving our children their heart’s desire. We encourage them to dream. Those dreams are not now on a trash heap. Those dreams are standing by, waiting for a clever and determined family to figure out a path to make them happen. If DH is teaching at a CC, does his offspring get any freebie classes? </p>

<p>Some colleges provide housing for Resident Advisors (usually not available for freshmen, but open for the following years). </p>

<p>Instead of seeing this as a big, unaffordable chunk , start visualizing this a patchwork quilt. Where can each D get one of the pieces she needs for the finished product? Instead of the traditional four year program, is there a two year CC plus four year half work/half college path? </p>

<p>Please don’t beat yourself up. Enlist the D’s and H and start shaving into task. You have lots of company here.</p>

[momophony]

<p>Kender in particular but every responder to the OP has really good advice. (Kender might want to go into student affairs .) I just want to add that there is a really good & supportive transfer student program at UCB: look up TRSP on the Berkeley website. And please note that for the sciences especially D2 should be extremely careful about which classes transfer to UC (and which UC in particular) for the major she wants. It’s good to remember that it’s possible to not be UC-eligible as a freshman, but then to be Very Eligible as a junior transfer. The odds I think are much better after a good two years at a CCC. I know several students in your daughters’ situation who did/are doing very (very) well as transfers. And the economy guarantees your daughters are not alone. (Perhaps knowing that will help them feel better.) If D2 takes school seriously, she’ll find like-minded students (and really good teachers-many of whom are UC PhDs. If you can find them, they will prepare her really well. Not to say others won’t, but it’s worth mentioning. I have been a student at all three: CCC (2 of them), CSU & UC, and UC was by far the toughest) at any CCC. If she goes the CCC route, it’s important to plan carefully, but she sounds like the kind of person who can handle that. She can use assist.org to do some basic planning, but I suggest she also contact specific major advisers at the UCs to make sure she is really taking the classes they are looking for. Best of luck! Please know you are not alone as a parent. The rest of us in the same income bracket are agonizing (or soon to be) in the same way precisely. I read recently that shopping for college should not be like shopping for a car. It’s thoroughly ridiculous when you think about it that way. Sigh. On a higher note, your daughters sound wonderful, interested & engaged. You’re already lucky in many ways, and I’m sure they will land on their feet whatever happens,</p>