<p>What percentage of the students enrolled in Stanford are NMS?
How important are PSATS?</p>
<p>I'd like to know this also. </p>
<p>thanks</p>
<p>i would this falls under the "scores" category. So the real SAT scores is probably more important.
All i know is that universities always brag about how much national merit semifinalists they have.</p>
<p>Well, for stanford and the ivies, some other top universities, and the top liberal arts colleges, they say it's too common in their applicant pool for them to pay attention to it when making admissions decisions. Several books on admissions have direct quotes from admissions offices at these colleges saying so. (Remember, there are 16,000 NMS.) </p>
<p>(It's also redundant, since they have your SAT scores anyway, so don't need to focus on PSATs, which is 100% of what National Merit Semifinalist status is based on.)</p>
<p>There are colleges who do brag about it, and will provide significant scholarship money to NMS students, their goal is to up their rankings. So it's very college-dependent. But for stanford, I don't think it's a help.</p>
<p>Could it be damaging to not have achieved it?</p>
<p>I think it's really not something Stanford will care about at all - they will care about your SAT scores, so focus on those! :)</p>
<p>of course colleges care about it. It is especially important if your actual SAT scores are in line with your PSAT scores. This shows consistency in the student. To say that colleges don't care about it is like saying colleges don't care about any other national award.</p>
<p>I reiterate - they don't care about your PSAT scores. They don't see them, unless you tell them, and given that there are 16,000 Semifinalists, and Stanford's class is only about 1600 students, you can be even more sure they don't care.</p>
<p>I know it's hard to believe, but ALL the top colleges - Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Amherst, Williams, etc see so many NMS applicants that it's really in the noise for them. They are quoted on this topic quite widely. The colleges slightly below, who want to up their rankings, are the ones who focus on it, and many will provide significant scholarship money. </p>
<p>But for Stanford and its peers - Focus on your SATs, your ECs, your grades, and distinguishing yourself beyond just your school and local community. That's what they will look at, and they won't look at your PSAT.</p>
<p>Like I said in my earlier post... If you show consistency between your PSAT and your SAT then it is worth something. How can anyone say it doesn't matter? unless of course they just don't want it to matter because it doesn't suit them. Your right 16,000 do get it out of 1.6 million! that's 1% pretty good stats if you ask me!! so yes it does matter</p>
<p>well, believe what you want, I am only presenting the facts. :)</p>
<p>guitar101, you're right...16,000 out of 1.6 million is great, BUT it doesn't help the admission offices decide on one applicant over another if most of them have the award.</p>
<p>Yes, but if Stanford alone has 24,000 applicants each year and you multipy that number by all the other colleges imagine how small 16,000 is then. So you see, it's just another "something" to add to your app. It's the same value as other awards. To say it means "nothing" is absolutely not true and it's only sour grapes by those who say so.</p>
<p>guitars, re: sour grapes - both my daughters have been/are NMSemi, and the one who is graduated was a National Merit scholar (one of the 2500) as well (obviously don't know about the younger one yet). That isn't the issue at hand.</p>
<p>My goal on this forum is to present the facts as I know them - I did a lot of reading on college admissions, so I try to help when I have relevant data.</p>
<p>On your point - anything helps - but some awards mean a lot more than others. NMSemi just happens to be one with little weight at THIS tier of college, and is very meaningful at others... </p>
<p>anyway, having provided all the info I have on this topic, I will leave this thread to the rest of you... :)</p>
<p>won't hurt, but won't help much</p>
<p>As a general rule, if the college doesn't offer scholarship money for NM, or if the money is very small (like Rice, for example), then NM Status really doesn't matter. A large number of NM Scholars are going to apply to top schools. A large number of them won't get in to those top schools. If you look at the schools with the most national merit scholars, Oklahoma is #1. It might not be Stanford, but that full ride and $2500 a semester for "books" and a laptop beats "you got into Stanford, now fork over 50 grand" for many people."</p>
<p>So yeah, there are lots of us NM kids applying to Stanford. Doesn't mean we expect it to help us get in. Not having it shouldn't hurt you at all.</p>
<p>It does not matter at all, as long as your SATs are "in the range".</p>
<p>"It's the same value as other awards. To say it means 'nothing' is absolutely not true and it's only sour grapes by those who say so." ---guitars101</p>
<p>Oh, but it is true! PSAT score doesn't mean a thing, especially if you are applying for those top schools.
I got 240 and I am still sour, because it really doesn't mean much.</p>
<p>It especially doesn't matter if you come from a state with lackluster academics. I scored a 229 and recieve the same recognition as another person in my class with a 202(our cutoff). Gotta love MS!</p>
<p>On the other hand, I guess we are an underrepresented state. Things balance themselves out.</p>
<p>the point that is missing is this... I never said that the award all by itself is worth lots, what I said was that the award shows consistency in a student. We know someone who is an adcom for Princeton and he clearly states that too many students only begin to improve scores by their junior year in high school because they know that it's almost college application time. What the PSAT does is distinguishes those students who have continued to be consistent in their academics. Believe it or not those things do matter when there are so many kids taking and retaking and retaking again SAT scores trying to improve on them. If you don't think that adcoms look at the number of times that a student takes the SAT, then you are fooling yourself. I know that they say they only take the highest score, but be serious they do "look" at your previous scores.</p>
<p>guitars,
I have no proof for it, but I do believe that at schools that receive tens of thousands of applications, the admissions officers who actually review the apps only get to see the files with your highest scores, because the initial data input is done by secretaries that have no say in admissions decisions.</p>
<p>NMF status can get you some major scholarships at some schools, and in those schools it obviously is important. I don't think it matters at schools like Stanford. All it shows is that you did well on one 1.5h relatively easy test in 11th grade. I could never understand why is it such a big deal... (and both of my kids were NMFs, one even got the scholarship, so it's not sour grapes on my part).</p>
<p>guitars101,
I thought the original question was "How important are PSATS?" (for a Stanford applicant, probably). Sure, some kids take SAT many times; That's because SAT (not PSAT) does matter in the process. At least most schools ask for SAT scores on their apps. But I don't remember any school asked about PSAT score anywhere on the app (I have to check again).</p>
<p>It obviously matters to you; that's fine. But I don't believe PSAT matters. Actually, I don't even think SAT matters quite as much once it passes a certain point (say 2350). I took SAT twice, in 9th and then 11th. Of course, I didn't get perfect scores (inconsistent with my PSAT) and I won't take it again.</p>
<p>Do you seriously think college people would take the time to compare SAT and PSAT scores? Don't they have enough to go over already, such as academic records (GPA, APs, etc.), ECs, Com. Serv. and awards/honors, essays, etc.?</p>