<p>Today, 48 governors agreed to ONE set of standards of what children learn, in each grade, in English and Math. Not Alaska and Kentucky. There's a list of books that students should be familiar with in HS.</p>
<p>I'll (or some of you) can send articles. Look for those. Meanwhile, comments?</p>
<p>Here’s what was on the news tonight:</p>
<p>[Governors</a> and State Education Officials Propose National Education Standards for U.S. Students - ABC News](<a href=“http://abcnews.go.com/WN/governors-state-education-officials-propose-national-education-standards/story?id=10063270]Governors”>http://abcnews.go.com/WN/governors-state-education-officials-propose-national-education-standards/story?id=10063270)</p>
<p>I think this is great. The standards proposed seem concrete and reasonable to me and not overburdensome on teachers. We need some kind of national standard by which to measure student performance, if for no other reason than to stop burdening kids and teachers with bad, confusing, or weak state standards that seem to get worse as they get revised year by year. For those of you who have lived in Washington state and suffered through the WASL you know what I’m talking about. </p>
<p>I bet Texas chose not to participate frankly because it’s educational leaders are in the pocket of textbook companies who want to keep control over this process (and who donate generously to politicians who let them do so).</p>
<p>Hey don’t talk down on Texas. I went to a Texas public high school and got a great education. The majority of my teachers had master’s degrees and taught well enough that I got 5s on 5 AP tests and a 4 on another. So yeah, Texas is doing just fine :P</p>
<p>Texas is fine if you live in an area with high property values, since their schools are funded through property taxes in that district. Which means you have amazing schools, but also some of the worst schools in the country, and even though you have wealth overall in the state, in terms of schools, it’s far from equitable. It’s great if you happen to be lucky enough to have parents who can live in the best areas. </p>
<p>And the other problem with Texas education is that, as one of the nation’s largest consumers of textbooks, and an all-state consumer (whole state buys the same textbook) they get to dictate what goes into textbooks for the entire nation even though their own educational standards are some of the loopiest, especially for sciences. National standards will bring some sanity to this by helping states get some power back for themselves and away from the concentration of textbook power (and money) in texas or similar all state textbook buyers. </p>
<p>I’m glad you got a great education in Texas, I know many who did and I’m not knocking it. But in terms of its educational inequities and its unfair control of what students across the country read, I think it’s become a bit of a trust that needs busting.</p>
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<p>I think you are over-estimating the influence of the $ from textbook editors on the make-up of the state board of education here in Texas. Many here seem eager to distance themselves from anything that comes from the federal government, no matter how reasonable or how wild. Heck, we seem to keep re-electing a governor who brings up leaving the US on a regular basis. If it comes from the feds, it probably won’t fly.</p>
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<p>Idk about that assessment. Although i do live in one of the high property tax areas, i don’t think the inequality in school quality is as great as you say. If everyone in the state has to use the same textbook, then everyone in the state is learning the same material.</p>
<p>Dbate, go down along the river and visit a few schools where all the kids qualify for free lunch and tell us that they got the same education that you did. Just getting the same textbook does not translate to getting the same education.</p>
<p>But why wouldn’t it? Someone can teach themselves from a textbook and then get the same education. Therefore if everyone has the same textbook, everyone should get the same education. </p>
<p>Oh and I doubt there are many schools where EVERYONE is on free lunch.</p>
<p>Well there’s more to it than textbooks, I was just using that as an example, since Texas is well known for being able to drive the national textbook market. For one thing, schools in higher property tax areas can higher better teachers because they can pay them more. I hope you don’t think all schools in Texas have teachers who mostly have master’s degrees, or lots of AP courses, or nice facilities, quality computers, or decent libraries. Highland Park High School in Dallas for example, one of the best in Texas, can offer 25 AP courses. Some other high schools in Dallas are lucky if they can offer 8. There are number of well documented studies regarding inequality in Texas schools, particularly in the districts in the biggest cities. I encourage you to check them out for yourself. </p>
<p>I’m not saying Texas is alone in this, and don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking down Texas. Every state has educational inequality. In every state, children who live in higher income areas attend better schools. Their parents tend to be better educated, have more time and capability to support their studies, drive them to extra curricular activities, etc. Their schools can raise a lot of money from auctions where wealthy parents will buy expensive items. It’s not just Texas, and it’s nobody’s fault. Inequity is unfortunately a fact of American educational life. You go to Yale, I went to Smith, we eneded up on the lucky end of the educational scale. Lots of kids in this country don’t. But some state’s have tax structures that exacerbate pre-existing inequality. Texas is one of them. </p>
<p>Just because schools have the same textbooks does not mean they have educational equity or equity of opportunity. And having the whole state by the same textbook unfairly skews the textbook markets in other states as textbook printers compete to attract Texas’ dollar. I know Texas’ governor claims that the people of Texas don’t want outsiders dictating their educational standards, which is why they’re not participating in the national standards study. But the people of Texas, or at least the textbook board of Texas, ends up dictating what children in many other states learn. If we had national education standards, textbook writers would compete to cater to the national standards, in which every state that wanted to have a say and a number of intra-state actors (college board, etc) have had a say. So it balances the scales a bit. </p>
<p>Not everyone may agree with me. But I think it’s a positive thing. Implemented with buy in from governors of almost all the states, with teachers, with educational experts, in a sensible, manageable way. And I think it’s a good step towards addressing inequality that exists throughout the American educational system and is exacerbated by the patchwork of state laws. I just wish that all 50 states would have gotten on board.</p>
<p>The number of AP courses offered doesn’t matter. My school only offered 18 courses and I still did fine. If a school doesn’t offer something that a student is interested in, then that student should just learn and teach it to himself. </p>
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<p>Good if you know what’s good for ya ;)</p>
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<p>But why would someone need a teacher to teach them something? You mention that we both attend (or attended) top quality schools, but even here I had to teach myself from my chemistry textbook because my professor was terrible. I still learned chemistry and I don’t see why other students couldn’t do the same.</p>
<p>At the high school level it is even easier too. I hardly ever paid attention to my Biology or statistics teachers but learned the stuff and did well on the APs. Teachers are not the main drivers of education, students are. If a student has a terrible teacher but has a desire to learn then that student will still do well. So regardless of whether or not a person attends a wealthy school or a poor school, that student should be able to get a high quality education directly from the text book.</p>
<p>It’s a hundred times more involved than textbooks. Education is about process even more than product. However, regarding product, I am ecstatic since reading the news this a.m. in the NYT. Some of us have been begging for this for awhile, so even if the plan is imperfect and needs refinement, I’m just happy to see acknowledgement of this great need for some explication of attainment within a national platform.</p>
<p>@Dbate - I was using the number of AP courses offered as an indicator of educational inequity between different schools. Your school offered 18 AP courses, much higher than the national or state average. Therefore students at your school had a greater opportunity to learn more advanced material. Therefore they had a better chance at going to an elite college. </p>
<p>You are able to teach yourself chemistry because you have good study skills. You may think those are innate to you, but really, they exist because you have grown up in a home and educational environment where study skills are valued, promoted, expected and yes, taught. </p>
<p>I’m sorry to hear you so undervalue teachers and you don’t seem to comprehend the immense educational privileges you have been granted in your life. But you should stop and think for a minute about what you’re writing. Basically you’re saying that lower income children who do not achieve as much as attending Yale do so because they don’t WANT to learn, they don’t WANT to be successful, they don’t WANT to get a good education. Because according to your logic, if they WANTED it, they would learn it. Anyone who’s worked in or studied education knows that this is baloney. Most people who haven’t worked in education know this is baloney. </p>
<p>You’re only a first year. I hope that as you grow and mature you will learn to open your eyes more to the inequality around you, and I hope you will do your part in whatever way you think best to address that. I hope you will learn to be more compassionate. I hope you will learn to better appreciate the gifts and privileges you have been given and use them wisely. Including your intelligence. Which allows you to learn and succeed in independent study, something that is not possible for most people.</p>
<p>“But why would someone need a teacher to teach them something?”
Because not all students are primarily VISUAL learners[ those who learn best through their eyes] like yourself. Some are AUDITORY learners, including many gifted kids with dyslexia. They learn best through listening ,and are at a serious disadvantage when taught by less capable, and less qualified teachers.</p>
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<p>Whoa now. I do not undervalue teachers, my mother is a teacher and I have several teachers in my family. That aside, I do not think teachers are integral to the learning experience. Anyone can learn, and anyone can teach himself or herself a subject. </p>
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<p>I am not saying these students do not want to learn, I am saying that they are able to if they so desire. The argument that poor teaches cause education inequality is reasonable, but it fails to acknowledge that good teachers do not create good students. A good student would excel regardless of who their teacher was and would be capable of overcoming these challenges. There are several students like that here. </p>
<p>Do quality teachers make education more attainable? Definitely. But these obstacles can be overcome and at heart of overcoming these barriers is the desire to learn. A child who has the desire can learn and accomplish anything. That is a fact. </p>
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<p>I know there is inequality, but the people who are adversely affected by such inequities can and do help themselves. I have limited experience from volunteering, but when I taught physics and biology to high schoolers the ones who wanted to learn did.</p>
<p>I helped with a new high school in a major US city. We tested the reading level of 160 incoming freshman. Only 23 were at grade level, over double that number read at about the 3rd grade level. The textbooks were written for 9th grade. No matter how badly many of those kids wanted to learn, few could actually read the book used. There is great disparity in the educational attainment of many of America’s children in our inner cities and elsewhere. It will take much more than many are willing to do, or pay for, to fix the schools.</p>
<p>How could kids get to the 9th grade without being able to read on grade level? How did they pass through middle school? That is a bigger question.</p>
<p>^^ Because we lack adequate national standards to measure student performance so teachers, trying to deal with classrooms already overcrowded and with wishy-washy guidance from states, try to do the best they can by their students but then have to pass them forward. </p>
<p>Again, I think your answers really demonstrate a lack of life experience and a shallow understanding of inequity in education. Maybe you’ll gain that as you grow older and learn and experience more. I certainly hope so, or else your Yale education will be somewhat wasted.</p>
<p>Here’s a good example of what I was talking about re: textbooks and Texas dictating how students around the country learn. Also a good example of why expecting students to succeed just from learning the text book is a silly notion. For one thing, the textbooks as you can see are often politically skewed, or otherwise missing key information. A student needs a teacher to help either balance the information in the book by providing outside information, or to fill in gaps in the book with supplementary material. And that requires a good teacher. </p>
<p>[Texas</a> Hearing Considers Deeper Conservative Stamp on Textbooks - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/us/politics/11texas.html?ref=us]Texas”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/us/politics/11texas.html?ref=us)</p>
<p>“Texas Conservatives Seek Deeper Stamp on Texts”</p>
<p>Of course, national standards won’t help this right away, as these standards do not for now address science or social studies (infinitely more complex because of issues re: evolution, climate change, and then history is a whole other kettle of fish), but a step in the right direction.</p>
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<p>Wrong. (The “anyone” part.) Most students need structure, guidance at some point in their educational careers. Beyond that, all students benefit from excellence in guidance, when that occurs, and they are harmed or deprived by a lack of excellence in guidance. You have benefited from teachers whether or not you are aware of it, and whether or not (separately) you are humble enough to acknowledge it.</p>