<p>many of the Hispanics in Alabama are rather new arrivals to the state.</p>
<p>I think once the state has more Hispanic-American children who have been thru K-12, the numbers at colleges will rise. Right now, many of the children here do not have citizenship ( so no FA) and are not yet old enough to have gone thru K-12.</p>
<p>completing k-12 …the new alabama immigration law may make that harder…schools are now responsible for checking/verifying the immigration status of all students.</p>
<p>Gojack, has the university collected data that would support your statement ? I think it would be a fairly safe assumption that many of those qualifying for the Hispanic Scholar would be high GPA/SAT students. </p>
<p>Perhaps the NHRP folks should raise the bar. Rather than being one quarter Hispanic, maybe the requirement should be at least one parent Hispanic. The PSAT cut-offs could be raised to at least 190 or maybe even Commended status and the GPA requirement could be raised. This would reduce what might be unfundable numbers that are currently qualifying, but still draw in some very fine Hispanic students.</p>
<p>“university collected data…” That type of decision has to go through multiple committees and approvals… of course they did.</p>
<p>The entire premise of the program is to find 5,000 students, that DID NOT qualify for the NMS program and are at least 25% Hispanic. By definition the standards are lower. With limited funds, you put the funds where they generate the highest quality students. (Because of UA’a racial history, I’m sure they are obligated to do what they can for black students.)</p>
<p>^^^I think you missed my point.</p>
<p>We can assume and suppose a lot of things. The fact remains that we have not seen any data. I am not suggesting that the administration owes that to the public. I think it is safe to assume that they could no longer afford to support it, but when you get into the area of “quality of students”, there is no data available to the public to support that. Keep in mind that, depending on the state, there may be a lot of territory between the NHS cut-off and the NMS number.</p>
<p>Secondly, obviously I know the requirements for NHRP and the reasons for it. I suggest a plan for NHRP, not UA, but it is a plan that maybe would allow the university to pick up more Hispanic students without breaking the bank OR diluting quality.</p>
<p>Hopefully, UA supports NA scholarships for reasons other than an obligation driven by their racial history.</p>
<p>Gojack, that would make sense. I also would like to see data to support it. I mean, checking out the stats on College View, the middle 50 has a high of 1850, and the threshold for NHS was (back in ds1’s anyway) 186, which puts all NHS in the top 25% of the student body.</p>
<p>I kind of don’t want to go there, but I will 
… I wonder whether, in tough economic times, the higher-achieving Hispanic students are seen as expendable. Because African-Americans make up a larger segment of the state’s demographic and are no doubt more politically connected, they are given preference. </p>
<p>One reason I was looking at 'Bama for ds2 is because (in addition to the money!) I’d read on here that it was diverse, and after some investigating I’m disappointed to learn it’s not really that diverse. Certainly, there’s a higher African-American population than most schools I’ve reasearched, and that’s awesome, but we’re looking for more overall diversity.</p>
<p>I like azcpa’s idea for NHS to reform itself, however, and raise the standards as a first step for this honor to be seen as having more prestige.</p>
<p>Anyway, what started as a simple question seems to have taken a lot of twists and turns! But, in case someone official is reading, I think it’s helpful to see how the decision to not recognize NHS plays in the Hispanic community. The school is no doubt losing a lot of good kids.</p>
<p>ETA: I was writing this before gojack’s and azcpa’s latest exchange, but I think what I wrote still makes sense.</p>
<p>*186, which puts all NHS in the top 25% of the student body.
*</p>
<p>Top of which student body? </p>
<p>Bama students primarily submit the ACT (80% submit the ACT), and an 1860 is equal to an ACT 27. </p>
<p>Alabama Middle Quartiles</p>
<p>ACT : 22 - 29 … so Top 25% would be ACT 30+ (equal to 2040+ SAT)</p>
<p>While being in the top 25% of a student body is great and deserving of some merit scholarship money, it’s hard to afford giving some who’s only in the top 25% free tuition, free housing, etc. </p>
<p>Students with a 1400 SAT or 32 ACT and a 3.5 GPA gets free tuition. Any student with a 30 ACT and equivalent SAT gets 2/3 tuition. That’s very generous for all students.</p>
<p>UA has a very generous set of scholarship programs,
including the First Scholars Program to aid any intelligent student
that is willing to study. Adding more racial preference monies
seems counter-productive to me.
I am sure there are many reasons for UA to support NA,
which is great, but I recognize that politically there is no choice.</p>
<p>update: mom2collegekids,
you said it better then I did</p>
<p>We’re comparing apples and oranges a bit here, as NHS is based on PSAT, and the middle 50% is based on SAT or ACT, which one could reasonably assume would be higher (my ds gained the equivalent of 200 points from his junior year PSAT to his eventual SAT).</p>
<p>Nevertheless, none of the numbers given thus far addresses the issue raised that somehow the NHS students the school was getting were somehow of a lesser quality – and presumably a lesser quality than NA students (because the school kept that program).</p>
<p>The school is no doubt losing a lot of good kids.</p>
<p>I don’t think that can be argued numbers-wise when you look at old numbers vs current numbers. It would be one thing if Bama used to have 5% Hispanics and then the number dropped to its current numbers. </p>
<p>And, there’s no reason for a high stats Hispanic kid not to choose Bama since all kids with high stats are given large merit scholarships. :)</p>
<p>Thankfully, the national scholarships are not Bama’s only scholarships. :)</p>
<p>*Nevertheless, none of the numbers given thus far addresses the issue raised that somehow the NHS students the school was getting were somehow of a lesser quality – and presumably a lesser quality than NA students (because the school kept that program). *</p>
<p>I don’t think the NH students had lower stats than the NA kids. However, the number of NA kids accepting the scholarship has been lower. </p>
<p>The year that Bama had 99 students accepting NH scholarships, only 19 students accepted NA. That makes a huge difference with affordability. If Bama were to suddenly have 99 frosh accepting NA scholarships, then that scholarship would likely be deemed unaffordable in its current form. </p>
<p>These are very expensive scholarships.</p>
<p>And, again, those with high stats can happily grab a Presidential or UA scholar scholarship.</p>
<p>Lots of schools give good scholarships to high-stats kids, regardless of race. My only question was whether one segment is given a full ride and another isn’t, and the answer is yes. And then I was trying to better understand why. That’s left unanswered (offically, anyway) and will probably remain that way. And that’s OK.</p>
<p>That’s left unanswered (officially, anyway)</p>
<p>Hopefully, I answered it in the post above yours. If a high number of NA frosh began accepting the NA scholarship, then it would also likely be determined to be unaffordable. </p>
<p>Lots of schools give good scholarships to high-stats kids, regardless of race.</p>
<p>Very few National Universities of Bama’s rank or higher give as much as Bama does. </p>
<p>What other National Univ assures free tuition to an ACT 32 or SAT 1400 and the school is ranked 79 or better? Very few.</p>
<p>It is a valid question why the NA scholarship remains while the NHRP scholarship was discontinued. The number of students accepting the scholarship is a big reason, while the racial history of Alabama may have been an unofficial consideration.</p>
<p>Considering the program qualifications, there is also the issue of family incomes and the educational resources of finalists in both programs. As I don’t wish to get into an affirmative action argument, I’ll leave the former unexplained. As for the latter, it can be argued that there are more options for NA finalists in the form of HBCUs, the UNCF (which, IIRC,has expanded its membership base), etc., so that NA finalists have less of a reason to choose Alabama (the same could be said for NMF students). Since less schools are offering scholarships for NH finalists, more students are looking at Alabama for a near-full ride.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is saying that Hispanic students are somehow not as deserving or not as good of students, it’s just that UA feels that it can better allocate its financial resources to other areas in order to meet its institutional goals (in this case higher rankings, more research money, and more prestige). I would certainly like see a UA with a large amount of bright, innovative, and unique (to quote a past UA advertising campaign) students who come from Hispanic backgrounds. Really, I’d like to see a UA full of bright, innovative, and unique individuals. However, this isn’t going to happen overnight.</p>
<p>I highly encourage Hispanic students to consider UA. The “scholarship gravy train” may not be as accessible as in the past, but I can assure you that there are more opportunities to get involved and change the University for the better than there is at many other schools.</p>
<p>I highly encourage Hispanic students to consider UA.</p>
<p>Absolutely…as well as Asian students.</p>
<p>As for the “scholarship gravy train,” certainly Bama is offering more than other national univ of similar or higher rank. </p>
<p>Bama is likely the highest ranked national univ to offer such large assured scholarships for high stats students regardless of ethnicity. Getting free tuition for an ACT 32/SAT 1400 is still a major scholarship worth over $80k for an OOS student. That certainly makes Bama a financial safety for many, many kids. </p>
<p>* it’s just that UA feels that it can better allocate its financial resources to other areas in order to meet its institutional goals (in this case higher rankings, more research money, and more prestige). * </p>
<p>And that’s really what it’s all about. Schools don’t offer these various scholarships for some benevolent reason…they do so to help increase their middle quartiles, get more high stats kids on campus because that helps with rankings, getting better profs, more grants, etc. </p>
<p>The fact that Bama’s top quartile is ACT 30+ is an achievement. There was a time, not too long ago, when the top 25% was a 27+ (my 2006 USNews reports that). Scholarships are what help raise that number.</p>