Need advice in NY State

Parents Forum
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<p>“We will need LOTS of financial aid and our EFC is 0.”</p>

<p>Many of the schools on your list do not promise to meet 100% of need (based on the indiv institutional formula, which ususlly results in a higher EFC than FAFSA) - - and are not likely to give grants closse to covering COA for a student w/ your D’s stats (I know you gave only gpa, but is she’s weak in math a killer P/SAT is unlikely).</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure M/berg, Hartwick and SLC “gap;” I’m not sure about Conn College and Lafayette.</p>

<p>You are correct that, for a candidate witha lot of need, a generous finaid packtage - - one with lots of grant $$ - - from a top private could end up costing less out-of-pocket that in-state tuition at a SUNY. Of cours, getting in to those schools could be tough. Maybe Smith, Bates and Colby; all are test optional, so SAT will not be a factor (though low math/sci grades on her transcript will still be a hurdle).</p>

<p>Also, she schould look carefully at a schools geneds and distrib reqs to make sure that required math/sci courses won’t be too much of a reach for her.</p>

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<p>Another option could be University of Hartford. It’s just off of 84, so pretty convenient from your location and they give out a lot of merit aid.</p>

<p>My DD had to get tutored all year for living environment when she took it – that was such a hard course for her, so I can relate.</p>

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<p>Agree with Sk8ermom 100%! Also, why does your daughter need an honors program? My impression is that the “better” SUNYs are quite rigorous.</p>

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<p>Agree w/ LurkNess re: D’s academic profile (and the rigor of the “better” SUNYs) - - but EFC of $0 is another matter entirely, unless the family hits Lotto.</p>

<p>Even a school that is considered generous w/ merit aid does not hand out full COA (tuition, room and board) grants just for the asking. A generous merit award could be half-tutition ($20K), but that still leaves a balance of $35K ($20K tuition + $15K room/board) - - way too much for a family with an EFC of $0 (unless the generous grandparents who are paying for private school are also will to foot the bill for college).</p>

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<p>D is a NY state junior. She is done with the NYS regents requirements. She is not strong in math or science. She did struggle with the chem regents (low 80s with monstrous work) but the earth science was very eay for her (high 90s). D has approached the regents much like her AP exams. She starts about two months in advance with many practice tests done until the date. If your D applies this strategy to Earth Science she will be sure to pass to get the higher diploma. </p>

<p>I agree with SK8R…outside of NY (even within) the regents diploma does not mean much. GPA, SAT/ACT, and challenging cirriculum are key. </p>

<p>Good luck in the search. We have visited Geneseo which is Liberal Arts and a beautiful school. It is one of the more difficult for admissions, but it does have a nice program. We also visited St Bonaventure which appears to be quite generous.</p>

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<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>Thanks for all the input. Good to hear that the Earth Sci exam is indeed easier! </p>

<p>As for SUNY, am not saying SUNYs aren’t good enough, some are TOO good, like Geneseo and Bing. What I like about Honors programs is that they allow for closer mentoring relationships. At NP the kids are given close advising and a small-sized seminar each semester. D does better in small settings. Bing’s student faculty ratio is around 20 to 1, and that’s Bing. Unfortunately NP honors does not entail more financial aid.</p>

<p>Frankly the low grad rates at any school – public or private – scare me. When 25 to 50 percent of the kids don’t graduate from a school it can mean they don’t get enough support, or they transfer for whatever reason…it is sad to think that you won’t grduate with half the kids you started with. </p>

<p>An Honors program at a SUNY seems to me like it would keep the kids motivated and connected. Luckily at NP students can transfer into the program after or during first year so that is an alternative if she doesn’t get in based on a low GPA.</p>

<p>As for it being too early to know for sure, yes, I see your point. However with five kids believe me I get things going early. And we don’t have the luxury of thinking the world is open to her. If merit money is chancey given her grades/scores, or if she doesn’t get into a 100% need school and we get gapped…</p>

<p>My goal as her mom is to have her make her list by the end of this year. If I have enough information that a school is clearly out of her league or that their reputation is to gap, I need to tell her. She has final say over the schools she applies to. Then we will support her in doing interviews and campus visits since they seem to increase chances.</p>

<p>I really wished she would consider my alma mater, Smith, which guarantees 100% need, a paid-for internship, fantastic study abroad AND has no requirements outside the major…alas, she didn’t like the idea of a women’s college and when we visited she still didn’t like it! </p>

<p>Amazingly for us she wants to be realtively close to home.</p>

<p>Choosing six colleges this year, hopefully by spring, and then cultivating the app process over summer and fall is our timeline.</p>

<p>Okay, any further thoughts about Skidmore, Drew and Muhlenberg are welcome.</p>

<p>Will take advice and chill on Lafayette and Connecticut (which claim to meet 100% need) until spring when we have more definitive GPA and scores.</p>

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<p>You need to have a conference with your d’s GC and you need some idea of what her SAT/ACT scores are, imo, before you can precede given her unevenness. </p>

<p>I would suggest looking into SUNY Purchase as a good SUNY safety.</p>

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<p>Muhlenberg is a fabulous school and very caring. I cannot speak to their aid but all of my child’s experience with the school have been very positive. I do know they have an honors program too but it is pretty competitive. They are a test optional school so that might work in your daughter’s favor. Definitely a school your daughter should look into.</p>

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<p>Hi again,</p>

<p>SAT practice tests 680 CR and 580 M. She will take SAT Subject tests and probably ace Spanish (she got a 100% on Regent exam and is at 99% in AP class). Spanish is the ace up her sleeve. English she will probably be okay.</p>

<p>To be clear, I am not talking about Honors Programs at private colleges, just at public ones where grad rates tend to be low.</p>

<p>And we are kicking around ideas for reach schools, I think in the end she will only apply to two. So when I mention Muhlenberg, Skidmore, Drew, and Sarah Lawrence it is with the idea that of those maybe one or two would be options. More remotely Lafayette and Connecticut but that’s b/c they have great need-based aid.</p>

<p>She is our first kid so we are learning as we go along. Maybe I am deluded in thinking that her grades and scores will get her any merit aid at all? Better to know now than later.</p>

<p>Thanks again guys it is nice to hear from you.</p>

<p>And I will look at Purchase – thanks for the tip!</p>

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<p>Since you only have a gpa through 10th grade, and no SAT or even PSAT scores, I think it’s premature to speculate about honors programs or merit aid.</p>

<p>*
SAT practice tests 680 CR and 580 M*</p>

<p>Maybe I am deluded in thinking that her grades and scores will get her any merit aid at all? Better to know now than later.</p>

<p>When we all went to college back in the 70s and 80s, a 1200+ SAT was considered very good. Nowadays, with so many kids prepping for tests and retaking tests, higher scores are often needed for substantial merit and for acceptance into the schools that “meet need.” </p>

<p>You mention Smith…my son’s friend was rejected with a 1380 M+CR SAT and straight A’s…ranked #3 in her class. She went to MHC instead. MHC might accept your D, but she doesn’t want all girls. </p>

<p>Your D’s SAT or ACT scores will likely determine where she’ll get accepted and what kind of aid she’ll get. If her stats are high, then she could get accepted to the schools that give full aid or preferential aid packaging (better FA for better stats). </p>

<p>Since your D has a “distance parameter” that may limit her acceptances. Schools are often looking for regional diversity and will sometimes reject some regional kids with good stats so that they can accept students from other regions.</p>

<p>Some here mention schools that are known to give good merit scholarships. The caveat is that those schools often give good merit scholarships to those who have stats within the top 25% of the school. They aren’t likely giving good merit scholarships to most of their students. (otherwise their "merit’ is really fake tuition discounting. There are a few schools that do this…they’ll give nearly everyone a $10k “merit” scholarship off of their $55k price…and then they won’t meet need. :frowning: ). </p>

<p>This is my rule of thumb for merit scholarships:</p>

<p>Keep the following in mind…</p>

<p>There is a very large pool of students with high GPAs…(many high schools are graduating kids with 10 or more Perfect GPAs and many schools have grade-inflation which lessens the impact of a high GPA).</p>

<p>There is a smaller pool of students with very high ACT/SAT scores.</p>

<p>There is an even smaller pool of students who have both high GPAs and high test scores. **The students with both have the best chances of getting great merit scholarships **from the schools that give them…as long as the test scores are well within the top 25% (often the top 5-10% of the school). </p>

<p>Since money is a huge issue, your D needs to have 2-3 financial safeties on her list. These are schools that you know for sure that she’d get accepted to…AND…you know for sure will be affordable because of Pell Grants, TAP (for NY schools), ASSURED merit scholarships, small student loans, and/or family funds. </p>

<p>Once your D has 2-3 financial safeties (that she LIKES!!!), then she can proceed with all the other schools where acceptance and aid is unknown. :)</p>

<p>Having 2-3 financial safeties will assure your D that she’ll still have a choice to make if all the other schools do not work out for various reasons.</p>

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<p>I stated previously that my D is a junior in HS as well, and as our first we are trying to figure all this out. You can look on the school websites to see where your D falls in the SAT/grade range for the schools you are targeting. If you are targeting Merit, not just aid, then you need to make sure the scores are at the very very top of the schools range. </p>

<p>Same with Honors programs. You need be much higher than that middle range for consideration.</p>

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<p>Hi,</p>

<p>Very helpful responses – thanks, it is clearer to me now. In a nutshell being above the 25 - 75% range for grades and scores will determine “reach” schools in order to get merit aid. And two or three “safeties” which might be better considered “matches” because they match not only for stats but because they are financially possible.</p>

<p>Honors programs at private universities are probably out of her league but we will still try NP Honors even if she is not accepted at first and tries again as a student.</p>

<p>Drew, Marist and Siena would be possibilities.</p>

<p>I guess this is as far as I can go at this moment until “real” SAT scores come in.</p>

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<p>I do not agree with this statement as I can tell you first hand about a number of students who were waitlisted or denied admissions because the disconnect between the regents scores and classroom grades (this came directly from the counselor). Remember with all of the variety of schools and grading in NYS, the students who take the regents are all taking the same exam. Also, the regents exam grades are on the transcript, so don’t think for one minute that admissions counselors (especially those who read for NY are not looking at them).</p>

<p>Marist is a school that does not meet 100% demonstrated need. Their largest merit scholarship is 12k, once you combine this with full TAP and Full Pell, there is still going to be approximately 20k on the table that you will have to find a way to pay.</p>

<p>[Merit</a> Scholarships: Marist College](<a href=“http://www.marist.edu/financialaid/freshman/merit.html]Merit”>Scholarships - Marist College)</p>

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<p>Also, keep in mind that even if a college promises to meet 100% of demonstrated need, the college’s calculation of need and YOUR calculation of need might be very far apart.</p>

<p>You’ve been given very good advice on this thread, and it might take a while for it all to sink in (at least, that’s been my experience). Just make sure your daughter keeps up her grades junior year, and get her whatever help she needs to do that.</p>

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<p>Sybbie, I said “outside of NYS”…you seem to be talking about NY schools. None of my kids OOS schools cared about Regents scores and only the instate publics used them for placement, not for honors or merit awards.</p>

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<p>Hi there. I would suggest you consider Manhattanville College Purchase NY. Small LAC strong in Psych and Educational degrees. I know their FinAid packages are really good. My son is a junior there, and loves the small community and fantastic teacher student ratio. He is studying Fine Arts and I dont think has ever had more than 12 students in any of his classes. The campus is beautiful, high percentage of international students. I dont know whether it is because of its proximity to Manhattan, but there are some amazingly talented staff. Manhattanville has strong finances from what I have been able to gather. I love it, think it offers the epitome of what a small LACshould. Def pay it a visit. Hope this has been of some assistance!</p>

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<p>I had student waitlisted last semester from a OOS top 20 LAC (which was SAT optional). When I called the school to inquire about the waitlist and what can we do to help move her off of the waitlist, the rep specifically stated that the regents grades were a problem. For admissions purposes SUNY does look carefully at the math regents scores, along the english, global and US for writing ability (unless they were blatantly lying at the SUNY counselor meeting that I just attended).</p>

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<p>Wow, this is a great discussion – I had no idea I would get so much feedback.</p>

<p>Zimcollegemom, Manhattanville was one of the first colleges I thought of, given its proximity not only to NYC but to us (hour and a half). I went there once and noticed the diversity. But the retention and grad rates were what made me worry, that and the high average indebtedness. Also I came across some negative comments on a student blog. So it is really good to hear that your son is doing so well there. Study abroad is a must for D and I believe that is a strength at Manhattanville? </p>

<p>SUNY and Regents and Advanced diplomas…it must make a difference, I mean, wouldn’t a college evaluate a GPA of 3.5 at a highly competitive HS differently from the same GPA at a non-competitive school? The advanced diploma requires 3 lab sciences and three years of foreign language so it is a more demanding courseload.</p>

<p>My D’s school is pretty on target with grades and regents exams outcomes. Kids almost always score higher on the exams than on their grades for the same subject.</p>

<p>Anyway…back to retention and grad rates…Drew and Manhattanville both have low ones. Any ideas why?</p>

<p>Sybbie, your point is well taken. The reason I tend to include Marist it is that it is so close to home. Like SUNY New Paltz, D could live at home for a year or a semester if worst came to worst in terms of money. Marist does have a special fund for Hudson Valley residents which takes the place of merit scholarships (at elast that is my understanding). And I believe both accept AP and college credits so she could get a semester’s worth of credits if she needed to. </p>

<p>I am not thrilled about Marist. To me diversity is a huge part of colelge b/c it is part of the real world…neither Marist and Siena are known for diversity. D does not share my level of concern when we talk about this but I notice that she hangs out with different kinds of kids, cheerleader/athletes, hipsters and preps. When we lived in Mexico for three years in a very poor setting D adapted culturally much, much better than we did! But anyway, sorry to be so circular, money really is the biggest issue. Diversity would be nice. But I have to say it is more important to me than to her. She will find her own friends wherever she ends up. </p>

<p>Living at home would, of course, suck.</p>

<p>But it would be an option for Marist or SUNY NP.</p>

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<p>Her Spanish grade is not a hook, especially in NY. Many kids are completely bilingual at an early age.</p>

<p>Along with her GPA, they will be looking for rigor. How many CORE AP classes has she completed? College Honor’s Programs are looking for kids with multiple AP’s across the board (including the sciences and maths) along with a high GPA and SAT/ACT in the top 10% and a high school class rank of at least the top 10%.</p>

<p>It’s very important for you to understand that the college application process is much different than it was in the '70’s. Students with above an 85 average are a dime a dozen. Students who speak a second language are very common. Students from NYS who are looking to apply to selective colleges usually have at least the equivalent of a Regent’s Diploma with Distinction. Along with top regents scores, they also have multiple AP’s under their belt. </p>

<p>I’m not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but I am trying to bring a bit of reality to the OP regarding the competitiveness of college applicant pools today.</p>

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<p>State Regs for an advanced regents diploma</p>

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<p>To piggyback on nysmile’s post, I have yet to see a native speaker of Spanish score less than a 95 on the Spanish regents (many students receive high school Spanish credit by exam by scoring an 85 on the regents).</p>

<p>In addition, now it is not unusual for students to come in to high school with Math and Science Regents and the associated credits from middle school. My D came into high school with math, living environment and earth science regents that she had taken in middle school.</p>